UEFA Euro 2008 Thread

[maximaz]

Well f***ing Totti isn't f***ing playing again. WTF!! The tournament is ruined for me.

So ehm, that's pretty much old news. The dude hasn't wanted to play for Italy in ages.

Besides, he isn't that great.

He does want to play, he has an injury again. I don't think he is the best player ever or even right now but I love his style of play. Since WC 02 he hasn't had a chance to shine internationally. There he was fantastic and Roma couldn't do without him. I was hoping for a repeat of 02 this Euro cup but I guess that won't happen and people will still think he is not that great.

 

[Sander]

He does want to play, he has an injury again. I don't think he is the best player ever or even right now but I love his style of play. Since WC 02 he hasn't had a chance to shine internationally. There he was fantastic and Roma couldn't do without him. I was hoping for a repeat of 02 this Euro cup but I guess that won't happen and people will still think he is not that great.

He wants to play?
'Cause, you know, last I heard he'd quit the team and didn't want to come back. It 'even' says so on his wikipedia page.

 

[maximaz]

He wants to play?
'Cause, you know, last I heard he'd quit the team and didn't want to come back. It 'even' says so on his wikipedia page.

I didn't see that in your link. All I've heard was:

What everyone scared finally was confirmed. The injury in the right knee that underwent Francesco Totti in the Roma draw against Livorno yesterday, caused that the A.S. Lodigiani pride must visit the operation room. After the intervention it was confirmed that the offensive midfielder will have to be outside of the fields at least four months reason why already EURO 2008 is history for him.

He personally said that he won't play because of injuries:

"The word finished is ugly but I have taken this decision to end the chapter with the national team for various physical reasons - [but] not technical," [Totti] said.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/20072007/58/euro-2008-qual-totti-retires.html

 

[Sander]

Ehm, check the date on that link. 20 July 2007. That's almost a year ago. He hasn't been injured for all that time so that remark has nothing to do with his current injury.

 

[maximaz]

so that remark has nothing to do with his current injury.

Well the first quote mentioned an injury as the reason he had to skip Euro 2008 even if its a hundred years old. My point was that he isn't playing in euro 08 and he isn't playing for health reasons. His injuries didn't allow him to participate in qualifications, from which he is still recovering.

He is my favorite player and naturally I'm bummed whatever the reasons for his absence are. Before him, it was Batistuta. Not the greatest player of his time either but still my favorite. I gotta start looking for another one since it doesn't look like Totti will stick around.

 

[Sander]

Well the first quote mentioned an injury as the reason he had to skip Euro 2008 even if its a hundred years old. My point was that he isn't playing in euro 08 and he isn't playing for health reasons. His injuries didn't allow him to participate in qualifications, from which he is still recovering.

I think his reasoning was more along the lines of not getting injured in national team matches because he values AS Roma more.

But whatever, end result: he doesn't play.

He is my favorite player and naturally I'm bummed whatever the reasons for his absence are. Before him, it was Batistuta. Not the greatest player of his time either but still my favorite. I gotta start looking for another one since it doesn't look like Totti will stick around.

I'd go for one of the Dutchies if I were you. Like, Sneijder for instance.

Also, Batistuta, really? He was part of the '98 World Cup squad that was overly fond of falling down. A lot. Good they fucked themselves over with that in the quarter finals.

 

[mandala]

I am rooting for Spain and Portugal. I wouldn't mind having C.Ronaldo in Real Madrid too.

 

[maximaz]

Also, Batistuta, really? He was part of the '98 World Cup squad that was overly fond of falling down. A lot. Good they fucked themselves over with that in the quarter finals.

Yea 98 was his last international appearance. It was for a bunch of people in that squad. He didn't exactly retire quite like Zidane did, if you know what I mean, but there was time when "Bati-gol" was a very deserving nickname for him. I loved his style of play, he would just go for it and create a dangerous situation every time he received the ball. Good old times.

Nowadays, Messi looks good but of course we won't see him on Euro cup. I'm going to watch everyone close this year. Let's hope there will be some good new talent.

 

[Brother None]

Robben is better so far than I expected. He's not in bad form.

But if you can't see the problem I indicated with having a single winger now you must have your eyes in your back-pocket, Sander. Normally, two wingers spread the field. Right now, we have Robben/van Bronckhorst on left, Sneijder, van der Vaart and van Nistelrooij huddling in the middle, and Ooijer alone on right. That means that the opponent can (and they do) concentrate all defensive efforts on the middle and left side of the field. During multiple plays, the entire front-right half was completely empty.

That doesn't work. It really doesn't. Not to mention Robben's presence means van Bronckhorst is totally useless as a wingback, which is against van Basten's plans.

PS: for serious, fuck Mathijsen.
EDIT2: ok, I watched the pundits this time 'coz you remarked on 'em last time (+Jaap Stam) and holy hell what a bunch of asstards.

The problem is Sneijder draws inside too much? No, you think? Hey, let's try to think back a bit here, remember when we had 4-3-3? Remember how the problem was that whoever you put on right always drew inside too much because we don't have a true right winger? Remember how van Basten switched systems at everyone's joy exactly because of that problem with lack of wingers?!

And now we have a single winger on one side which - as expected - mucks up the system, and we're talking about de facto going back to 4-3-3 just because Robben has one decent game? With Kuijt on right?

Fuck that.

He played better than I expected, but he's not so good that he's worth switching the entire system for. He'll be a worthy sub/addition for specific matches against teams that are soft towards wingers, but otherwise, thumbs down.

 

[Sander]

Robben is better so far than I expected. He's not in bad form.

But if you can't see the problem I indicated with having a single winger now you must have your eyes in your back-pocket, Sander. Normally, two wingers spread the field. Right now, we have Robben/van Bronckhorst on left, Sneijder, van der Vaart and van Nistelrooij huddling in the middle, and Ooijer alone on right. That means that the opponent can (and they do) concentrate all defensive efforts on the middle and left side of the field. During multiple plays, the entire front-right half was completely empty.

Yer this was pretty asstarded. Huge fields of empty space were left on the right side, yet the ball almost never got there. It got even worse when Nigel de Jong came in.
Robben was most dangerous when he drew inside as well (see the goal).

That doesn't work. It really doesn't. Not to mention Robben's presence means van Bronckhorst is totally useless as a wingback, which is against van Basten's plans.

PS: for serious, fuck Mathijsen.

Hehe.
Well, he can't really be blamed for the goal. He blocked the shot on goal well enough, someone just forgot to cover Poulsen who was running in (I think De Zeeuw should've been doing that).

EDIT2: ok, I watched the pundits this time 'coz you remarked on 'em last time (+Jaap Stam) and holy hell what a bunch of asstards.

The problem is Sneijder draws inside too much? No, you think? Hey, let's try to think back a bit here, remember when we had 4-3-3? Remember how the problem was that whoever you put on right always drew inside too much because we don't have a true right winger? Remember how van Basten switched systems at everyone's joy exactly because of that problem with lack of wingers?!

And now we have a single winger on one side which - as expected - mucks up the system, and we're talking about de facto going back to 4-3-3 just because Robben has one decent game? With Kuijt on right?

Fuck that.

He played better than I expected, but he's not so good that he's worth switching the entire system for. He'll be a worthy sub/addition for specific matches against teams that are soft towards wingers, but otherwise, thumbs down.

I'm thinking that Van Basten will put Sneijder on the left side (where he plays for Real Madrid, more or less) as soon as Van Persie's fit. That'd actually solve these problems.

Although he might just go 'Robben played so well, can't leave him out' which would be a shame.

PS: They sure managed to shoot high over goal, though.

 

[Yoshi525]

Yoshi’s Predictions

Austria 3/10
Pointless team. Crap manager. Will get drubbed at every turn. Oh well.

Switzerland 5/10
Somewhat better than Austria, but any team who gets beaten by post Sven England...and has Philippe Senderos in, is most likely doomed.

Poland 6/10
They have Tomasz Kuszczak, a.k.a. PIG who is mental, and probably a liability. Boruc is decentish however. Jacek Bak looks like Johnny Rotten, not sure if this is good or not. Smolarek is a dreadful player, yet is somehow rated by some. At least they have good strikers in
Podolski and Klose...oh wait. Actually i reckon the Poles will do ok, maybe cause a few upsets.

Portugal 8/10
They have Deco - the living embodiment of cheating. They have loads of incredibly talented but unproductive wingers + Ronaldo. Ronaldo is the best forward in the world easily, however he is also a petulant bellend and will start crying if things go wrong. They don't have any midfielders who can win the ball back, nor do they have any real strikers or a decent keeper. The quality in the forward line can't be overlooked however - semi finals at least.

Italy 7/10
World Champions, and a decent team. A tricky group however and more problems than people realise. They struggle to score goals, as always. Despite having a good season for Bayern, Toni isn't anything special. Totti is a nutcase and secretly wants to destroy mankind. Quagliarella is a funny player who can score great goals but is over wise pointless. Del Piero has had a good season but thats a far as positives go in my view for the Italians. Nesta has left, Cannavaro and Zambrotta are shadows of their former selves. Pirlo has had, by his standards, a woeful year as has Gattuso. Barzagli is a nothing player compared to Nesta. Won't make it out of the group.

France 7/10
Manager is a complete psycho. The likes of Evra, Mexes and Frey don't even get a look in...because of their star signs or some other such wisdom. Gallas lost the plot a few months ago, will be interesting to see if he has recovered his sanity. Clerc has had a good season. Abidal has not. Thuram + Sagnol are old. Boumsong is crap. Despite all this they will somehow manage to keep the most clean sheets in the tourney. Karim Benzema, despite what the media say, is not anything special. Not a great French side, and led by a lunatic, however they will get out of the group.

Greece 6/10
Nothing special. Crap manager. Nikopolidis is past it. Will have a go at it but fall short.

Turkey 5/10
People who think they will do well are in for a surprise; they won't. Fairly rubbish team who adopt a decent attitude. Won't get far.

Czech Republic 7/10
Petr Cech thinks he is a glass of orange juice. Baros is woeful, despite having a good Euro 2004. Sivok has an odd nose. Will do ok, but are not anything special.

Germany 8/10
Jens is a massive liability and will probably cost them at least one match. Rubbish defence, Lahm is ok but the rest have aids. Ballack is back to his best, which will help them. Klose will bang a few in. Gomez has had a decent season and should start up top with Klose. Decent in attack, crap defence. Could win it, if Lemon avoids being a prick.

Croatia 6/10
Better than Ingerlund, but still not good. Simic seems to have vanished off the planet. Modric is going to Spurs so this will probably be is only chance to shine before he gets introduced to Jolball. I reckon the Poles may edge them in the group.

Russia 6/10
Decent manager, good, hardworking squad. Will do well and make the knockouts.

Spain 7/10
Good players, as always. Senile old fool as manager, as always. Mediocre showing and early exit, as always.

Sweden 5/10
They seem to get worse every year. A host of naf goalkeepers and out-of-date defenders ensure they will haemorrhage lots of goals. The midfield is very average with the likes of Wilhelmsson and Kallstrom lurking. Dunno if they have brought Henrik out of his coffin for the tournie or not. Zlatan will be invisible for a few matches and sulky for a few more. Any national squad that contains Marcus Allback stands no chance. They won't make the knockouts.

Romania 6/10
Decent team, shame they won't win a game. Cheerio!

Netherlands 7/10
VDS' last laugh. Semi-okish team, with lots of ageing 'greats' who were never actually great. Gio van B for example. Robben has gone backwards over the last few years, which is a shame...or not. Van Persie is fantastic but will probably break his face or something in the first game. Dirk Kuyt has the first touch of a rapist and is generally a rather dreadful player. Sneijder looks decent, as does Babel. JVOH, RVN + KJH are all in form. Will score lots of goals, concede lots, argue a lot and get lots of cards. Good, perhaps, maybe win it.

Who will go through?
Portugal
Czech Republic

Germany
Poland

Netherlands
France

Spain
Russia

Who will win?

One of:
1) Germany
2) Portugal
3) Netherlands

Surprises: Italy failing, Spain failing (shouldn’t be a surprise but will be) Russia, Poland doing well, and I suppose also Netherlands and Germany doing better than forecast.

I will be placing £10 on each of the above, along with £70 on various other bets.

I am normally correct (apart from predicting Togo a place in the last WC semi final), so place any bets you make on my analysis.

One of Klose/Ronaldo/RVN will be top scorer also.

Don't but money on Spain/Torres/Villa or Sweden.

 

[Brother None]

Yoshi, I doubt it. ECs tend to be really unpredictable. I seriously doubt you predicted Greece to be the winner last time. But we'll see. I'm not a betting man, anyway.

Yer this was pretty asstarded. Huge fields of empty space were left on the right side, yet the ball almost never got there. It got even worse when Nigel de Jong came in.
Robben was most dangerous when he drew inside as well (see the goal).

Aye, I was impressed by that. He must've picked it up in Real, since they play the same basic system.

The sucky thing is that this right-wing flaw will remain in 4-2-3-1, even when we leave out Robben. I mean, without Robben the shift will be more to centre, but the idea is for the wingbacks to advance all the way to the corner flags and thus widen the field like that.

Our left wingbacks, de Cler and van Bronckhorst, are both really good at this (I think de Cler is better at this than van Bronckhorst, in fact, and don't see why van Basten is moving him back since El Gio is probably the best defensive midfielder we have), but no one we have for the right wingback position (Ooijer/Melchiot) are any good at this. That'll haunt us. HAUNT.

PS: They sure managed to shoot high over goal, though.

Can't believe the high amount of van der Vaart misses. New personal record, I think.

 

[Sander]

Totti is a nutcase and secretly wants to destroy mankind

I agree, although Totti isn't actually in the squad.

VDS' last laugh. Semi-okish team, with lots of ageing 'greats' who were never actually great. Gio van B for example.

Ehm, which ones? I can only see Gio, Melchiot and arguably Ooijer fitting that. Van der Sar and Van Nistelrooy are still great. Everyone else is still younger than 30, 'cept Timmer but he's 3rd goalie so he won't play anyway.

Robben has gone backwards over the last few years, which is a shame...or not.

He improved a lot at Real. Dropped the whole falling thing, too.

Our left wingbacks, de Cler and van Bronckhorst, are both really good at this (I think de Cler is better at this than van Bronckhorst, in fact, and don't see why van Basten is moving him back since El Gio is probably the best defensive midfielder we have)

Because he's infatuated with Engelaar.

Who, honestly, is a pretty decent player and has had a better season than Gio did at Feyenoord the past year.

 

[Brother None]

Because he's infatuated with Engelaar.

Who, honestly, is a pretty decent player and has had a better season than Gio did at Feyenoord the past year.

Engelaar was decent at FC Twente, especially near the end of the season.

Still, the fact is that El Gio can be replaced by de Cler with equal value gained, but El Gio is certainly an upgrade over Orlando. I mean, Feyenoord had a bad season, but that was noticeably not because of the three Rotterdam Orangists, de Cler, Timmer and van Bronckhorst. The first two had really good seasons at Feyenoord, and Gio was serviceable.

But if I have to pick between someone from the province who never played a big match in his life or 76-cap ex-Arsenal/Barcelona Gio, I don't think the choice is hard to make.

Marco shouldn't be influenced by people being infatuated by Engelaar playing a decent match against a soft opponent. There's no way that dude can keep pace against Italy or France. He lacks the experience.

 

[Sander]

Still, the fact is that El Gio can be replaced by de Cler with equal value gained, but El Gio is certainly an upgrade over Orlando. I mean, Feyenoord had a bad season, but that was noticeably not because of the three Rotterdam Orangists, de Cler, Timmer and van Bronckhorst. The first two had really good seasons at Feyenoord, and Gio was serviceable.

?
Timmer had a pretty shitty season. He's really deteriorated a lot the past year.
De Cler and Van Bronckhorst did play well, although I do think that Engelaar played better overall than Gio did.

But experience could well be the deciding factor, as Engelaar isn't used to playing in high-paced matches against world-class opponents.

 

[Brother None]

Timmer had a pretty shitty season. He's really deteriorated a lot the past year.

Admittedly, I only watched a few matches fully and only saw summaries of the rest, but Feyenoord was the third-least passed defense of the Eredivisie (after PSV and FC Twente).

Timmer was called "the Dutch Gomes" by one of the coaches of an opposing team (don't remember which) after he made a handful of incredible saves in the match. In fact, a few matches were won by Timmer's saves. Now I freely admit he's not Gomes or van der Sar, but he was in great form this season.

I suspect your judgement is based on his last cap for the Dutch team, in which he sucked balls, but he had a great season. That's incontestable.

De Cler and Van Bronckhorst did play well, although I do think that Engelaar played better overall than Gio did.

Sure, but the Dutch Eredivisie is hardly a way to measure soccer players for the Dutch team.

But experience could well be the deciding factor, as Engelaar isn't used to playing in high-paced matches against world-class opponents.

'xactly.

Though I have no real problem with Gio being left wingback, he's good at that position (if no better than de Cler), it's more that our defensive midfield would be pretty weak if it were - say - Engelaar and de Zeeuw or the non-popular Engelaar - Sneijder (who both can't really defend for shit).

 

[Sander]

Admittedly, I only watched a few matches fully and only saw summaries of the rest, but Feyenoord was the third-least passed defense of the Eredivisie (after PSV and FC Twente).

Timmer was called "the Dutch Gomes" by one of the coaches of an opposing team (don't remember which) after he made a handful of incredible saves in the match. In fact, a few matches were won by Timmer's saves. Now I freely admit he's not Gomes or van der Sar, but he was in great form this season.

I suspect your judgement is based on his last cap for the Dutch team, in which he sucked balls, but he had a great season. That's incontestable.

Granted, he had some good matches. But he had lots of really bad ones.
But I think my judgement is more clouded by his form 2 years back than his match against Austria. Because he has really started to play worse, although it may still be pretty solid.

Sure, but the Dutch Eredivisie is hardly a way to measure soccer players for the Dutch team.

Well, yes, but it's basically the only recent measurement we have of the players. It's been well over a year since Gio last played at a world-class level, too (unless you count the Dutch qualifying matches).

'xactly.

Though I have no real problem with Gio being left wingback, he's good at that position (if no better than de Cler), it's more that our defensive midfield would be pretty weak if it were - say - Engelaar and de Zeeuw or the non-popular Engelaar - Sneijder (who both can't really defend for shit).

I think it was Van der Sar who made a remark today about needing to find a balance between the excellent offensive qualities, and the necessity of defensive players. That's part of what's troubling the Dutch team.

On another note, everyone seems to be praising Robben and wanting him to be part of the main eleven, but everyone fails to realise that that defeats

Might be interesting to put Robben on the right, though. He'd naturally travel inside more but still have the ability to go deep, which is lacking in most other players.

 

[Yoshi525]

I agree, although Totti isn't actually in the squad.

Alright, just noticed that. This adds to their failings then as along with Del Piero and Toni he was their only decent, in form (sort of) forward really.

Ehm, which ones? I can only see Gio, Melchiot and arguably Ooijer fitting that. Van der Sar and Van Nistelrooy are still great. Everyone else is still younger than 30, 'cept Timmer but he's 3rd goalie so he won't play anyway.

Three is a fair few on this scale. Plus i thought Seedorf and van Bommel may have been lurking, obviously not however. Has van Bommel retired?

He improved a lot at Real. Dropped the whole falling thing, too.

I would agree to an extent. Your right about the theatrics at least and i think he has been better than he was for Chelsea in the 06/07 season. It was before that though when he was injury free that he was at his best. Him and Duff could take any defence to pieces in a matter of seconds from out wide. Incidentally the lack of this width if probably what has cost Chelsea over the last two seasons.

Prior to 07 Robben looked capable of ghosting past anyone, he still does on occasion but not really to the same degree IMO. From what i have seen of Real, Robinho has largely outshone him this year. On a different note he runs like a complete spacker.

Yoshi, I doubt it. ECs tend to be really unpredictable. I seriously doubt you predicted Greece to be the winner last time. But we'll see. I'm not a betting man, anyway.

In 2004 my predicted winners were Portugal, Czech, Netherlands and top scorer RVN. So i wasn't too far off, i just missed out Greece and whoever the top scorer was (Baros i think, not sure if RVN came second or third in the end..)

Last WC i had the potential winners down as Argentina, Portugal and Italy.

I normally make a few quid on various bets, i don't have the bottle (or the cash) to try my look seriously though.

 

[radnan]

i lolled so hard at this i love the way they echoed Rumanie at 1:13

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=L_gMKnBbXBs[/youtube]

here's hoping Holland and Romania survives
Holland because i like the team
Romania because i'm romanian.

 

[Brother None]

That's such a retarded way of running. Probably contributed to a lot of his injuries as well. Supposedly, he worked on that and changed his way of walking.

No man, the "he needs to change his way of walking"-thing was something that was a rumour in the media and he denied pretty aggressively. Seems he went to some chiro who figured out his back is too stiff, he's been working with the dude (referenced via Fred Rutten) since January, claims that's what's made the dif.

By the by, he scored a magnificent goal in the match against Wales today. A defender headed a ball back, Robben picked it up and outran 3 other defenders.

Yes. To underline the significant part, "a magnificent goal in the match against Wales"

What kind of offense scores only two times against friggin' Wales? An offense that sucks.

But 'course, the media already pounced on Robben as "man of the preview matches" - as if preview matches even remotely matter. Let us hope van Basten and his stoicism will enable him to ignore all the retards who think scoring against Wales matters.