UEFA Euro 2008 Thread

[Sander]

No man, the "he needs to change his way of walking"-thing was something that was a rumour in the media and he denied pretty aggressively. Seems he went to some chiro who figured out his back is too stiff, he's been working with the dude (referenced via Fred Rutten) since January, claims that's what's made the dif.

I thought those two were interconnected, actually.

Yes. To underline the significant part, "a magnificent goal in the match against Wales"

What kind of offense scores only two times against friggin' Wales? An offense that sucks.

Not for lack of opportunities, though. Efficiency is a problem, which is odd with Van Nistelrooy in the team (who got about 1 decent ball the whole match).

 

[Brother None]

I thought those two were interconnected, actually.

Dude still walks like a fag.

That said, undoubtedly they are, but there's a difference between walking causing injuries, or a bad back causing both injuries and faggot walking. I think Robben's case is the latter.

Not for lack of opportunities, though. Efficiency is a problem, which is odd with Van Nistelrooy in the team (who got about 1 decent ball the whole match).

Well, the issue is with people who work for themselves or for the team. Van Persie is a half-way house, right? But Kuijt and van der Vaart clearly work for the team. Robben and Sneijder clearly work for themselves. Put 2 people who work for themselves and 1 person who works for the team behind a striker and you shouldn't be surprised he's a non-factor (well, he did have 3 defenders around him at all time, but Italian defenders are of high enough quality to do the same).

Now the AD is postulating that if van Persie returns neither Robben nor Sneijder can be removed 'coz they're both so good, making van der Vaart the logical drop-out.

...

The fuck? Does anyone really think van Nistelrooy would be relevant if you put Robben-Sneijder-van Persie behind him? If you do that, you might as well not put Ruud on the field at all.

No man, you need either van der Vaart or Kuijt on the field. And from the remaining pool, the quality difference between Sneijder and Robben (both in form) and van Persie (recovering from injury) is not big enough to make decisions in individual qualities, which means positional play becomes the most important factor...in which case Robben is still not a logical option.

Also, opportunities without killer instinct will never beat what I still consider the greatest goalie in the world, Gangluigi Buffon (who, going back to individual awards, if IFFHS best goalkeeper 4x, and one Lev Yashin (greatest keeper ever) award for best WC goalie, versus van der Sar's 0 IIFHS and 0 Lev Yashin awards (you mentioned him having awards - but he only has the European best goalie from 1995 as an international award, not exactly a big award)) .

 

[Sander]

Dude still walks like a fag.

That said, undoubtedly they are, but there's a difference between walking causing injuries, or a bad back causing both injuries and faggot walking. I think Robben's case is the latter.

Yeah, true.

Well, the issue is with people who work for themselves or for the team. Van Persie is a half-way house, right? But Kuijt and van der Vaart clearly work for the team. Robben and Sneijder clearly work for themselves. Put 2 people who work for themselves and 1 person who works for the team behind a striker and you shouldn't be surprised he's a non-factor (well, he did have 3 defenders around him at all time, but Italian defenders are of high enough quality to do the same).

Now the AD is postulating that if van Persie returns neither Robben nor Sneijder can be removed 'coz they're both so good, making van der Vaart the logical drop-out.

...

The fuck? Does anyone really think van Nistelrooy would be relevant if you put Robben-Sneijder-van Persie behind him? If you do that, you might as well not put Ruud on the field at all.

No man, you need either van der Vaart or Kuijt on the field. And from the remaining pool, the quality difference between Sneijder and Robben (both in form) and van Persie (recovering from injury) is not big enough to make decisions in individual qualities, which means positional play becomes the most important factor...in which case Robben is still not a logical option.

Van Persie's a pretty good team player at Arsenal, though. As is Sneijder at Real Madrid. Hell, even Robben can be a good team player if he's not at full speed.
But specifically Van Persie and Robben are very focused on individual actions, Sneijder's more focused on passing the ball to the right player.

I'm pretty sure that either Robben or Van Persie's going to be ignored against the Italians, though.

Also, opportunities without killer instinct will never beat what I still consider the greatest goalie in the world, Gangluigi Buffon (who, going back to individual awards, if IFFHS best goalkeeper 4x, and one Lev Yashin (greatest keeper ever) award for best WC goalie, versus van der Sar's 0 IIFHS and 0 Lev Yashin awards (you mentioned him having awards - but he only has the European best goalie from 1995 as an international award, not exactly a big award)) .

Not to mention he was the reason Van der Sar got benched at Juventus and went into the slump in his career.
But we oughtta have Van Nistelrooy (and Huntelaar) for that killer instinct, though.

 

[Yoshi525]

Also, opportunities without killer instinct will never beat what I still consider the greatest goalie in the world, Gangluigi Buffon (who, going back to individual awards, if IFFHS best goalkeeper 4x, and one Lev Yashin (greatest keeper ever) award for best WC goalie, versus van der Sar's 0 IIFHS and 0 Lev Yashin awards (you mentioned him having awards - but he only has the European best goalie from 1995 as an international award, not exactly a big award)) .

From what i have seen this year Buffon has not even been the best in Italy. Casillas certainly has looked better this season. Not saying Buffon ain't a great keeper, because he is and has been the best for a few years but this year he hasn't been at his brillant best for me.

Well, the issue is with people who work for themselves or for the team. Van Persie is a half-way house, right? But Kuijt and van der Vaart clearly work for the team. Robben and Sneijder clearly work for themselves. Put 2 people who work for themselves and 1 person who works for the team behind a striker and you shouldn't be surprised he's a non-factor (well, he did have 3 defenders around him at all time, but Italian defenders are of high enough quality to do the same).

How has van der Vaart developed over the last few years? He's a player who always seems highly rated but i never get to see him much. I catch the odd glimpse when i can be bothered to watch Bundesliga but he never seems to be in the 1st 11 for Netherlands when i watch them.

 

[Brother None]

Van Persie's a pretty good team player at Arsenal, though. As is Sneijder at Real Madrid. Hell, even Robben can be a good team player if he's not at full speed.
But specifically Van Persie and Robben are very focused on individual actions, Sneijder's more focused on passing the ball to the right player.

Sneijder has a tendency to just shoot if he's anywhere within 30 yards of the goal, though.

Van Persie is more of a finisher by nature, too. After all, Arsenal has Fabregas to spread the ball, so that's not really his job.

I'm pretty sure that either Robben or Van Persie's going to be ignored against the Italians, though.

Van Persie would figure. I'd have no problem with that, guy's not in game-form. I still think he's the best player we have when he is, though.

But we oughtta have Van Nistelrooy (and Huntelaar) for that killer instinct, though.

I honestly hope Huntelaar gets 0 playing time. It doesn't make any sense to use your back-up striker, as long as Ruud is healthy.

Pinch-hitter, sure, but your 2nd striker? Just keep him benched.

From what i have seen this year Buffon has not even been the best in Italy. Casillas certainly has looked better this season. Not saying Buffon ain't a great keeper, because he is and has been the best for a few years but this year he hasn't been at his brillant best for me.

Can't say I've seen much of him this year. We'll see.

Who are the prospective stand-out goalies, then?

How has van der Vaart developed over the last few years? He's a player who always seems highly rated but i never get to see him much. I catch the odd glimpse when i can be bothered to watch Bundesliga but he never seems to be in the 1st 11 for Netherlands when i watch them.

HSV is basically built around van der Vaart, which is why they're so deathly afraid of losing him.

He's developed well. I can't say he's technically as gifted as van Persie or Sneijder, but he's a good field leader with good positional play. The type of midfielder you call "solid", plus with some technical skills to add.

I've never been a big fan of van der Vaart, but he's been pretty good last season. It was a different HSV when he wasn't on the field.

 

[Madbringer]

I honestly hope Huntelaar gets 0 playing time. It doesn't make any sense to use your back-up striker, as long as Ruud is healthy.

Pinch-hitter, sure, but your 2nd striker? Just keep him benched.

Bit harsh, innit? He really matured as a player over the past few years. He also has a fantastic season behind him, he's pretty much in great shape, currently, while Van Nistelrooy struggles with various injuries for a long time, now.

I'm rooting for Huntelaar to show what he's made of, given the chance.

 

[Brother None]

Bit harsh, innit?

More sensible. Ruud and Klaas-Jan are the same kind of player with the same type of strength and weaknesses. It's not like we're talking about a completely different type of striker here - like if the back-up were Roy Makaay or something.

That means that as a coach you have to select the one who is strongest (and Marco made the right choice, Ruud > Klaas-Jan) and stick with him, because if you bring in the other player you're automatically indicating a vote of no confidence to your first player. Again, this is different if they're not the same kind of player, then it might just be adapting to the opponent.

So unless Ruud gets hurt or shows to be incredibly ineffectual, Klaas-Jan is in exactly the same position as our 2nd and 3rd goalie. Someone who should stay benched for the team's sake.

 

[Madbringer]

More sensible. Ruud and Klaas-Jan are the same kind of player with the same type of strength and weaknesses. It's not like we're talking about a completely different type of striker here - like if the back-up were Roy Makaay or something.

That means that as a coach you have to select the one who is strongest (and Marco made the right choice, Ruud > Klaas-Jan) and stick with him, because if you bring in the other player you're automatically indicating a vote of no confidence to your first player. Again, this is different if they're not the same kind of player, then it might just be adapting to the opponent.

I agree, but this is not necessarily as obvious a choice as you make it to be. Like i wrote, Klaas-Jan has really had a really brilliant season, and while you can always count on Ruud to play solid, there's also the question whether or not to capitalize on Klaas-Jan's fantastic shape he's in currently.

Simply put, i think the youngster is much more fresh than the injury riddled Ruud, and he has a bigger chance of shining. Then again, having a tremendously difficult group like the Netherlands have, and Klaas-Jan, while being consistent on the Dutch league level of playing, Ruud has more routine and experience on the highest level to back up his skills. Risky play either way, so i suppose it all comes down to Van Basten's confidence.

Also, i think Huntelaar has a deep reservoir of yet-untapped potential somewhere inside him, and who knows, maybe a big tourney like the upcoming Euro is what is needed to unlock that.

 

[Brother None]

Talking to the wrong person with that, Madbringer. I hate Huntelaar almost as much as I hate Inzaghi.

 

[Madbringer]

Meh.

Btw, while we're talking about (current or former) Ajax players, what ever happened to Van Der Meyde? Supposed to be a huge talent, transfer to Inter, but i lost track of him a few years back. Oo

 

[Sander]

Talking to the wrong person with that, Madbringer. I hate Huntelaar almost as much as I hate Inzaghi.

wat
How you can hate this guy:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQbNneMKzsU[/youtube]
Seriously, that bit of film is hilarious.


Also, seems that Vieira might not play at all for the French this EC. Which is pretty good news for us.

Btw, while we're talking about (current or former) Ajax players, what ever happened to Van Der Meyde? Supposed to be a huge talent, transfer to Inter, but i lost track of him a few years back. Oo

Transferred from Inter to Everton, played almost no games there and got into a bunch of spats with trainers and other controversies. Seems to be on a dead-end track there.

 

[Brother None]

Btw, while we're talking about (current or former) Ajax players, what ever happened to Van Der Meyde? Supposed to be a huge talent, transfer to Inter, but i lost track of him a few years back. Oo

He's in Everton now. He's been out of shape for quite some time now, doesn't get any playing time.

Lazy fucking slob.

's what you get from Ajax players.

wat
How you can hate this guy:

He's an Ajax player and I live in Rotterdam. I assume that's a theoretical question?

But apart from his waft of Amsterdam stench, I don't like him as a player either: he's got an ego, little technical skill, and is the typical kind of low-personality nose-for-goal striker I tend to really dislike. Fuck him.

 

[Sander]

He's an Ajax player and I live in Rotterdam. I assume that's a theoretical question?

Oh right, the Feyenoord deal.
I still don't get why Feyenoord's still so anti-Ajax. Hell, Cruyff even got them a title once. You don't see Sparta going all batshit either, at least they know their place.
Which is way behind PSV.

But apart from his waft of Amsterdam stench, I don't like him as a player either: he's got an ego, little technical skill, and is the typical kind of low-personality nose-for-goal striker I tend to really dislike. Fuck him.

Wait - are you talking about Huntelaar or Van Nistelrooy now?
Although Van Gol does have more technical skill.

 

[Brother None]

I still don't get why Feyenoord's still so anti-Ajax.

And I don't get why Ajax still prances around with the arrogance of a European topclub, while fucking up the Dutch reputation (and points) on the international field.

An arrogance, by the way, that reflects directly in its players. Compare Gentleman Giovanni van Bronckhorst to those assholes Heitinga, Sneijder and Huntelaar (Huntelaar least of these 3...Heerenveen, after all, still, it's starting to rub off on him)

Which is way behind PSV.

Eindhoven is the football capital of Holland - Hugo Borst (Spartaan).

Wait - are you talking about Huntelaar or Van Nistelrooy now?
Although Van Gol does have more technical skill.

Nistelrooy I equally dislike as a football player, but at least the dude has personality.

I generally don't like strikers. specially not the type that just hangs around the front of the field letting everyone else do the work and then getting all the glory for changing the direction of a ball. Inzaghi is the worst of that, but damn...hated Kluivert, too

 

[Sander]

And I don't get why Ajax still prances around with the arrogance of a European topclub, while fucking up the Dutch reputation (and points) on the international field.

An arrogance, by the way, that reflects directly in its players. Compare Gentleman Giovanni van Bronckhorst to those assholes Heitinga, Sneijder and Huntelaar (Huntelaar least of these 3...Heerenveen, after all, still, it's starting to rub off on him)

Heitinga is one of the few Dutch players that always fights on the field besides Kuyt, though, something that Feyenoord used to be renowned for.

Eindhoven is the football capital of Holland - Hugo Borst (Spartaan).

Hugo Borst is awesomes.

Nistelrooy I equally dislike as a football player, but at least the dude has personality.

I generally don't like strikers. specially not the type that just hangs around the front of the field letting everyone else do the work and then getting all the glory for changing the direction of a ball. Inzaghi is the worst of that, but damn...hated Kluivert, too

Makaay too, then, I suppose.
Hell, almost all strikers fall into that category, except Kuyt (who's more like some kind of frankenstein of defender, midfielder, winger and striker) and Ajax man Bergkamp (aka GOD).
Hell, taking a look at the top scorers in the European leagues every single one of them seems to be of the type who waits and pounces except arguably Fernando Torres and maybe Henry (even though he isn't exaclty a top scorer - or a full striker).
It's what Gerd Muller was famous for, too. I suppose it is a quality, though. You don't see many players who are consistently great at that.

Kluivert played more like an offensive midfielder directing play at his last stints at Newcastle and PSV, though.

PS: So how much do you hate Vennegoor?
PPS: This bit by Van Nistelrooy cracks me up every time I see it:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoKX31Rh8Tg&feature=related[/youtube]
Also, this is why he's a great striker:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XihbbX7D2_4[/youtube]


EDIT - More cracks in the squads of the Dutch opponents. Cannavaro had to be carried off the training field on a stretcher, possibly a grave injury. Vieira is sure to miss the match against Romania and may miss more or even the entire World Cup. Possible replacement: Mathieu Flamini.

 

[Madbringer]

Wow, i simply thought he was out due to some grave injury.. oh well, not a first talent gone to waste, i suppose (re Van Der Meyde). Thanks for the update, guys.

Haha, and yeah, forgot i was preaching to a Rotterdam citizen about Huntelaar, my bad.

 

[Yoshi525]

I generally don't like strikers. specially not the type that just hangs around the front of the field letting everyone else do the work and then getting all the glory for changing the direction of a ball. Inzaghi is the worst of that, but damn...hated Kluivert, too

I understand where you are coming from. I grew up listening to a continous media lovefest over Alan Shearer. He was regarded like a god. I think i can remember about one goal RVN scored for United from outside the box, i always preferred watching Henry even though he played for...them. RVN also looks like a horse.

 

[Brother None]

Heitinga is one of the few Dutch players that always fights on the field besides Kuyt, though, something that Feyenoord used to be renowned for.

Dude, you're quoting me back to myself, I noted I appreciate Heintinga's qualities - though not his personality - a bit above.

's very true, yeah, if you look at the embodiment of club culture, Johan Cruijf versus Willem van Hanegem, it's easy to see who is the great football player, but it's also easy to see who has the better character.

Hugo Borst is awesomes.

Please don't ever say that.

Makaay too, then, I suppose.

Yes. Though I appreciate Makaay's rather unique ability to disappear and move at the right times, and he's more willing to support the team. Close to Inzaghi-type, tho'

Ajax man Bergkamp (aka GOD).

Yes, Bergkamp I love (it's easy enough to get past someone being an Ajacied if he's not an Ajasshole, like van der Sar or Bergkamp). But he's not a striker. He's a #10.

Though he could play both.

Hell, taking a look at the top scorers in the European leagues every single one of them seems to be of the type who waits

Yes. I don't deny their function, their particular talent or how necessary they are to the team. I just don't need to like 'em for it, either. The "change-the-direction-of-ball-by-being-in-right-spot" types annoy me.

Hell, it annoys me that greatness of players is measured by goals. Christiano Ronaldo is a very good player, but greatest player in the world he's not. People indicate him to be the greatest, tho'. Why? Goals. Pure personal glory.

PS: So how much do you hate Vennegoor?

's a nice dude.

PPS: This bit by Van Nistelrooy cracks me up every time I see it

Heh, yeah.

 

[Yata]

Portugal has a good team.

 

[ZiggyMeister]

Go Portugal!