Update 1.3 Lies

[Crni Vuk]

A better example would be even a painting or a meal. You don't have to be a master artist or some professional cook to recognize that something is only mediocre.

do you always insult new members here? definitely good way to expand the community.

Dear @Martin. Do you really feel that you're in a position to complain, after Korin, ruling over us all with his fist of love, snubbed you for your behaviour?
http://www.nma-fallout.com/threads/...s-of-related-memes.204910/page-5#post-4119451

I am giving you a hard time. True. And you know what? I won't stop with that, unless you accept the fact that people can shit talk about Bethesda and Fallout 4 as much as they want. But you know the good side of this? You're also free to convince us, with arguments, why you think Bethesda is awesome and Fallout 4 a perfect game. Isn't that awesome?

But if all of your comments are just "You sure flame them a lot!" and "Why don't you make it better, duh!", than don't expect people here to ever take you seriously.

Oh. And please, don't try to double post. Edit functions are there for a reason.

 

[DirtyOldShoe]

do you always insult new members here? definitely good way to expand the community.

Not always, I am relatively new when it comes to registry, but I have actually been lurking here for years. I joined because I agree with most of what is discussed on NMA. The beautiful thing about posting on a forum, you have theoretically unlimited time to post or reply. I use that time to formulate a somewhat thought-out response. Share my views with links or facts that lead to my conclusion. If you want NMA to accept you, you might have to accept NMA, differences of opinion and potentially being called out for posting something predictably mediocre.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

do you always insult new members here? definitely good way to expand the community.

make a game yourself, see how it works, maybe then you will appreciate work of all those people on bringing up new games.

As already pointed out in the other thread, repeatedly double posting with a brand new username and using the exact same shtick that every other troll has already exhausted in this forum isn't going to convince anyone to take you as anything except a troll that is not trying hard enough.

 

[Lanfear]

make a game yourself, see how it works, maybe then you will appreciate work of all those people on bringing up new games.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_accomplishment

 

[ZigzagPX4]

Is it just me, or is Bethesda basically adding features into the game that were originally supposed to be in the game with patches? Then if anyone notices that they didn't make the game complete, they call them "free updates" and they get showered with goodwill, even though in terms of developer behaviour that's one step away from EA's "cutting the game into pieces and selling them one-by-one".

At least, they're not charging for adding content that should've been there on release. They're still more towards the "not-so-competent" rather than outright greed. Sometimes, looking at many of Bethesda's developers, I think that they're a lot like an indie company that's been given too much money and has no idea what to do with it.

And another funny part is apparently having a reputation for lying and releasing buggy games is considered sort of quirky and humorous. Like, "oh, it's just Bethesda, you know them, they're always like that" is supposed to make us feel better about them? But relatively, they're still a better company than a lot of ones out there. Not being a fan of the Fallout all the way from the beginning also gives me less of a personal grudge against Bethesda, too. So for me to see their flaws, clear as day, is a pretty good indicator to myself that their problems are definitely real.

Though one thing I wish I knew more about. Where is the line between developer and publisher when it comes to BGS and Bethesda Softworks? Does Todd Howard and the BGS team just go along with whatever the publisher says like every other AAA relationship or can their faults be blamed interchangeably? I hate to direct misplaced disapproval - too many people blame the wrong group for when a game goes wrong. How far is the gap between the two, in this case?

 

[Lanfear]

No one had to change the writing, dialogue, or quests of Stalker. It was a coherent, immersive world.

Spoiler: STALKER Spoilers

Why did the C-Consciousness invent the Wish Granter if they were trying to keep people AWAY from the CNPP though? And what was the point of the death trucks?

 

[Risewild]

make a game yourself, see how it works, maybe then you will appreciate work of all those people on bringing up new games.

Yes we should all make a game!

You're forgetting that Bethesda games are made by professionals that work on a game for years from 9 to 5 every day except weekends and get PAID to do it and still take this long and still don't fix most known actual bugs reported since the game was released. Then we have modders, with lives and jobs of their own that go home and spend a couple of hours during a few days of the week and without the tools Bethesda employees have and fix some of the bugs on their own in a week of working on it all by him/herself, no payment, only one person, without the game making tools, without access to the game code, etc.

Now, Bethesda's tens of workers working on fixing bugs in a game released 3 months ago, that are paid, have to sit in their cubicle 7 or 8 hours per day and have access to all the bug reports are doing what? It's their job and they are doing it slower than modders.

If someone worked on a restaurant and kept serving half-raw food to customers, it would get fired, if someone worked as a cashier and would not allow people to take home 1/5th of their shopping for no reason, it would get fired, if a police officer saw someone snatch an old lady's purse and just looked the other way and people saw him do it, it would get fired, if a baker kept selling burnt bread, it would get fired.

Gaming companies are not gods, they are not above other business, they are people and they should do their work, and when consumers complain they should listen and not only listen to fanboys and fangirls that are blind and follow their "idols" even if they ask them to keep buying buggy stuff they will never fix properly .

 

[Chud]

Spoiler: STALKER Spoilers

Why did the C-Consciousness invent the Wish Granter if they were trying to keep people AWAY from the CNPP though? And what was the point of the death trucks?

I think the wish granter makes more sense in the source material [Roadside Picnic], than the version in Stalker. If you haven't read that novel, check it out. It has one hell of an ending.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

Spoiler: STALKER Spoilers

Why did the C-Consciousness invent the Wish Granter if they were trying to keep people AWAY from the CNPP though? And what was the point of the death trucks?

The Wish Granter has multiple explanations in the lore as well as speculation relating to it. There are MANY ways one can interpret the Wish Granter and its purpose in the game beyond what is explained in the game. For example, Stalkers weren't just trying to get to the center of the Zone because of the Wish Granter - they would have tried to get there anyway because it's unexplored territory that no one controlled. So the Wish Granter might serve as an illusion - a distraction or hallucination meant to dispose of the few Stalkers that actually made it to CNPP. This makes sense considering the outcomes of your different choices that you make when you reach the Wish Granter, many of which are quite unexpected.

This is just one of many possibilities, all of which can fit in the lore just fine. Nothing is broken. In other words, just enough lore regarding the Wish Granter is explained to leave some mystery while simultaneously not introducing something that breaks the universe. It leaves a hundred possibilities open so that if anyone says "this doesn't make sense" it can be explained away through some imagination, while still presenting enough of itself to be intriguing.

Death trucks, as far as I know, were never explained beyond the fact that they are trucks used to transport brainwashed subjects back into the outer Zone. I don't really feel like it needs any more depth than that. Some things are better left unknown - not everything needs a thorough explanation as long as it fits within the universe and does not break the story (like Kid in the Fridge did).

 

[Lanfear]

I felt like the death trucks existed because they had that cutscene with a truck getting hit by lightning at the start of the game and needed to explain it somehow.

Also I have no idea what the Zone was supposed to be in the end, really. It seemed like Clear Sky and Call of Pripyat were trying to retcon Shadow of Chernobyl's story somewhat, but since there was never a STALKER 2 it never ended up mattering.

Sorry, what were we talking about? Pardon my derail.

 

[Martin]

you people really take stuff personally do you? never ever said fallout 4 is perfect game. never ever said its absolute disaster.

as for patches, as we all know, hopefully, all PCs are uniques. all have some differences. nvidia 980 for one computer wont have same performance as on exactly same other computer with other nvidia 980. same for everything else. so when you play a game, some certain bugs are directly related to your PC configuration. but we already know this right? and so makes of game must make game compatible with hundreds of millions of configurations. even if you would bought two exactly same PCs and played game in exactly the same manner, you would come over different bugs. so when patches say "repaired this quest going haywire" it means, that on certain configurations, quest wont go haywire anymore. but lets not end there. when you slap a bug somewhere, tow other poop out. we all know this right? because we all have experiences with programming or atleast exxcesive modding.
personaly, i havent met a single bug, for 50 hours of game. at which point i started modding game. after that few things have gone bad. still most bugs i found are item placement issues. i havent met single gamebreaking bug in 400 hours of gameplay. and have experienced few CTDs, which can be written on account of increased spawns mod.

so while i agree, that many, many features are not done very well, and some are just awful, like the MM questline, i cant agree that f4 is shitty game. because its not. its generally good game for 60 bucks. yes, there are better games, which were definitely better. doesnt make this game worse. and if you really want to insult me, because part of my opinion is not yours, go on. i have said everything i wanted.

now, because i have attracted quite an attention, i'm asking anyone with knowledge of lore to come and help me with my hearts of iron 3 fallout mod. currently i'm working on technologies and prewar minitary units, so if anyone wants to help, go to thread i made about this week ago.
thank you for your time.

 

[Crni Vuk]

yes, there are better games, which were definitely better. doesnt make this game worse. and if you really want to insult me, because part of my opinion is not yours, go on. i have said everything i wanted.

Uh, yes it does? If Fallout 1 for example had excellent writing and Fallout 4 doesn't than it is a worse experience. Period. No arguing. Not opinion. But fact.

If someone is making a product a lot better, than it can set new standards. This is particularly true for gaming, and other forms of entertainment - see movies, that's why you don't see movies made with the effects of the 1920s or the CGI of the 1990s made today.

However, I am not saying that YOU(!) as individual can't have a lot of fun with Fallout 4, or the things it might do well. No one here is arguing about your own standards and what you see as entertainment. But if you compare Fallout 1 and 2 with Fallout 4, and consider what the core experience of Fallout 1 was. Than you can indeed say, that Fallout 4 is the worse Fallout experience. In almost every way. Except for the visuals. As gameplay, story, narration, quests almost everything that made Fallout 1 really exceptional and awesome has been butchered, simplified and/or removed by Bethesda.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

you people really take stuff personally do you? never ever said fallout 4 is perfect game. never ever said its absolute disaster.

You're joking. This is the only place I've ever been where the community doesn't take things personally. Not once have I gotten a "fuck you, my opinion's better" here the way I get on Reddit, at least not without the offender getting the sweet banhammer to the face.

There's plenty of people who agree with you here, it's just that they don't feel the need to point out that there are people who don't.

so while i agree, that many, many features are not done very well, and some are just awful, like the MM questline, i cant agree that f4 is shitty game. because its not. its generally good game for 60 bucks. yes, there are better games, which were definitely better. doesnt make this game worse. and if you really want to insult me, because part of my opinion is not yours, go on. i have said everything i wanted.

Well, I agree, but that doesn't make it wrong for everyone else to not agree, does it? There's admins here who likes Fallout 3, and there's a support page for help with Fallout 3's bugs. This is the first indicator that this is a place where people with different opinions on things can coexist!

You're getting aggression because you came in here to poke at the fact that some here do not like Bethesda and their "stuff", when there are plenty of people who have already done that (*cough* me *cough*).

It's not that you like Fallout 4 plus knows its flaws that's the problem, it's how you're reacting to other people that's the problem. I can't help but feel like it's a bit condescending and passive-aggressive, which are aspects of people who are usually trolling. So yes, some of this forum "flames" on Bethesda, some of this forum responds to new members with sarcasm. I haven't seen anything in either of those that would offend someone.

Just tone it down, because opinions getting into personal spite exchanges are what gets people banned! And no one wants bans going around. It just makes things less lively.

(I did this exact thing, I'm a hypocrite)

 

[Crni Vuk]

Demanding quality content from professionals is flaming today, and also making you a hipster. Didn't you know?

 

[MercenarySnake]

*Old man voice* In my day sonny we didn't have those flashy visuals and gunnin' parts in our video games.

Well atleast he isn't trying to say "Art is subjective", or is he? If being a hipster means not liking every dog turd lodged out every crevice then I would rather be one then say an apologist but that's just my opinion.

A healthy dose of criticism is what some of these game developers need if they want to improve, oh and competition.

 

[Lanfear]

so while i agree, that many, many features are not done very well, and some are just awful, like the MM questline, i cant agree that f4 is shitty game. because its not. its generally good game for 60 bucks.

Hey, it's okay if you think it's a good game, but there's plenty of reasons for why people would consider it a genuinely bad game on its own merits. Not just because they have a hate-boner for Bethesda or whatever.

 

[Crni Vuk]

This is not the Fallout you're looking for

 

[AgentBJ09]

For what I've seen of the engine from the GECK, it's notoriously buggy but I can see how Bethesda likes to keep using it. It's pretty easy to modify at its core, and considering how simple it is to create levels within the game and how I guess the actual dev tools have even more features, ease of use and making the engine easy to mod plays a lot into the factors.

Let's ask, though, would you prefer a broken game you can mod to your wildest desires of a functional and good game you can't mod all that much? And before you say it, YES, at this point in technological progress, those two are mutually exclusive. Even the Source engine proves that to be easily modifiable you have to sacrifice large-scale worlds.

If they're sticking with Creation then I believe Bethesda would've to make their games a collection of hub worlds instead of an open-world instead, like Deus Ex but not linearly set (you can go back to previous hubs). This would mean rather than an open-world with loading screens before entering any building, there would be loading screens for entering every town, but each town would be much larger and expansive and each building wouldn't have a loading screen. This would be much closer to classic design and would be more efficient for an RPG.

I'd rather have a good game that only benefits from use of mods, like DOOM II, rather than a buggy as hell one that lacks in so many features that mods start to restore some and repair others.

 

[Martin]

well, i mainly reacted to ways of pointing out flaws in f4 in here. they are.. not very friendly. i'm ok with critics. i even sent bethesda several bug reports on my own. i'm ok with pointing out flaws or flaming the story, because lets be honest, if it wasnt for my genuine interest in playing in this style, and would only have story, without all these shiny things around, i wouldnt play it. story sucks.

but many other things, and big sidequests are just as good as in new vegas. and as i pointed out somewhere else, it took me day or two to decide on which side to go. while all sides want best for humanity, all want to achieve it in different way. yea, story is generaly shit, but this moment, where you have to stop and think, thats good thing. also, dynamic battles. man, 30 minutes of fighting between 2 BoS teams, 20 muties and 10 gunners+artillery and 12 minutemen and with 3 vertibirds. all dynamically spawned. i got lost in it. forgot i was playing. and thats what too makes game good.

in the end yea, beth fallout, is bad fallout game. but its a good game. thats why i defend it. and because i know how patching works, and that bugs in so big game are inevitable, even with 100 testers. so while i will agree upon flaming story, i just cant stand by and not try to correct people on this.

patching is very hard and time consuming work, that NEVER ends. becuase there will always be bugs. because of reasons i said. thats all. and again, if anyone is willing to help me with hoi3 mod, leave me a message, i really need help, lore wise.

 

[Crni Vuk]

but many other things, and big sidequests are just as good as in new vegas.

Which one?