US presidential elections thread

[Spacemunkey]

It took you 5 minutes to realize that you don't have a logical argument, post two links and try to convince yourself that you won the debate, or that you simply don't give a fuck.
View attachment 3057

I wouldn consider landmark Supreme Court cases a little more than simply links since in the US that's the law of the land. I do concede though that I give less than a fuck about arguing with someone on a video game site. Now shouldn't you be Tweeting Obama to provide his birth certificate or something.

 

[Ragemage]

snip

No, you're right, if the father actually wants to support the child/is involved with the wife and didn't run off then the husband should have some say in it as well. That just usually isn't the case when it comes to abortion unfortunately. If the father's willing to support the child and wants to be a father, then abortions don't happen because they can financially and lovingly support the child. Usually.

My problem with Trump is that, while he has some okay ideas, there's just no feasible way for any of his plans to work. He keeps talking about building a wall between us and Mexico but wouldn't a far better solution be A. to bring our troops home from the Middle East, especially those 20,000 soldiers Obama sent to Afghanistan, and B. Station them along the borders to protect it rather than use our military resources to fight in a "war" we lost a long time ago? FFS now we're getting dragged into the Syrian conflict thanks to Russia, it's never going to end. We just need to pull out.

A lot of his plans are like that. They sound good in theory like his tax plan, but at the end of the day none of them are feasibly possible, especially not with our current debt from both the Bush and Obama administrations. Let's also not forget he IS letting the lowest common denominator support him. Is he a racist himself? I can't say, nor do I want to demean a man over something that may or may not be true, but the fact is he is indeed being endorsed by both the KKK and the Neo-Nazi America groups and has yet to release an official statement denying that he wants anything to do with either of them.

The final problem with Trump is the biggest: No one likes him in the government. Let's say that Trump was elected. Great, good. And now he'll never pass a single bill, amendment, or anything else while in office, because not only is he hated by all Democrats, he's hated by 3/4ths of the Republican Congress and Senate too. Practically no one in either party likes him, and that's a problem when the president basically needs Congress's approval for everything nowadays. He'd basically be useless in office because no one would support him, and those that did wouldn't amount to enough votes to actually pass anything he would want to do.

 

[Illuminati Confirmed!]

snip

The idea about the wall is partially symbolic. That's not to say it won't work. Israel seems to be doing fine with theirs.

Interference in middle eastern politics is bad, but leaving without exterminating the Islamic State is worse. Not sending support to groups affiliated with them would be a good first step in that direction, and Trump is the only candidate who seems to follow this line of reasoning.

Trump has disavowed people like David Duke many times (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi..._do_i_have_to_continue_to_disavow_people.html) despite the fact that Duke left the Klan almost forty years ago. Why isn't Hillary being forced to disavow Robert Byrd, her late mentor, who was a more prominent member than Duke ever was for a longer period. She has also praised Margaret Sanger, who claimed that people of color are an abomination.
I get that you probably don't like Hillary either, but there are just examples of how ferociously anti-Trump all the big media houses are.

I don't think he would have so much trouble getting support. If they don't manage to steal the nomination from him, the GOP will fall in line once he's in office, as sabotaging him after their own party and the American people chose him to be president would be suicide for the party. Also, he's a leader, and it's not beyond reason to presume that people will follow him.

Hey, maybe you're right and he won't be able to do anything while in office. But I think doing nothing beats the shit out of having someone as corrupt as Hillary or as keen on driving the economy into the dirt as Bernie in the oval office.

 

[Ragemage]

I think you meant to quote me and not SpaceMunkey there.

 

[Illuminati Confirmed!]

I think you meant to quote me and not SpaceMunkey there.

True, and it's strange since I only snipped the post after I wrote the response to it. Must be the Illuminati fucking with me.

 

[Ragemage]

snip

You're right, I don't like Hillary Clinton. I feel like she should be in jail, like like any person that wasn't in her position of power would be for all the shit she's done.

Fair enough, I wasn't aware that Trump had actually denounced those people.

The thing is, if Trump were such a strong leader as you say, why isn't he able to rally the people now? Sure he's bringing in the votes but it won't matter if Congress and the Senate literally become the wall he wants to build, except it's against him instead of illegals. If Trump could actually show some signs that the Congress and Senate would sway towards what he wants, then he would have more of a shot. As it stands he looks like a Do-Nothing president. Personally I feel a Do-Nothing president is worse than having a president that passes crappy laws. Crappy laws can be recanted by the next president, but a president that sits in office and is unable to do anything is a waste of time and power. Carver and Hoover were both do-nothing presidents, and those 2 periods were some of the worst and most embarrassing in American history. (The Great Depression and the Iran Hostage Crisis) I wouldn't want something like that in office again.

The other problem I have with Trump, and this is more a personal vendetta than a political one, is that he seems completely untrustworthy when it comes to party loyalty. Back in 2000, he was a member of a party called the Reform Party, which he actually nearly ran for president in. After that he shifted more towards being a Democrat and even gave big money to Democratic candidates ( http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/da.../donald-trump-donated-to-democrats-until-2008 ), one of which was Shillary Clinton herself. All of a sudden when he realized he might have a chance to win the presidency thanks to Obama's failures in 2012, he did an almost 360 and went full Republican. Then he dropped out due to being one of those people calling for Obama's birth certificate. Just seems shady shady shady to me that someone whose voted Democrat, donated to the Democratic Party, and was even considering running with a Democrat-lite party (the Reform Party) would suddenly just go full Repub? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, unless he thinks it's because no one will vote for a Democrat thanks to Obama being a complete wash out, debatedly worse than Bush was.

In other words it seems like the only reason he's blustering about being a Republican is for the votes, it has nothing to do with him actually supporting the party he's running for.

 

[Illuminati Confirmed!]

The other problem I have with Trump, and this is more a personal vendetta than a political one, is that he seems completely untrustworthy when it comes to party loyalty. Back in 2000, he was a member of a party called the Reform Party, which he actually nearly ran for president in. After that he shifted more towards being a Democrat and even gave big money to Democratic candidates ( http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/da.../donald-trump-donated-to-democrats-until-2008 ), one of which was Shillary Clinton herself. All of a sudden when he realized he might have a chance to win the presidency thanks to Obama's failures in 2012, he did an almost 360 and went full Republican. Then he dropped out due to being one of those people calling for Obama's birth certificate. Just seems shady shady shady to me that someone whose voted Democrat, donated to the Democratic Party, and was even considering running with a Democrat-lite party (the Reform Party) would suddenly just go full Repub? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, unless he thinks it's because no one will vote for a Democrat thanks to Obama being a complete wash out, debatedly worse than Bush was.

In other words it seems like the only reason he's blustering about being a Republican is for the votes, it has nothing to do with him actually supporting the party he's running for.

The oldest interview I saw with him was filmed in '88, and the issues he talks about are very similar to what he talks of now.

I don't know much about his party allegiances, and it doesn't mean much to me, as I don't have a high opinion of either.

 

[Ragemage]

.

Whether his views are similar then as they are now, I still don't like the idea of him flipflopping when it comes to the parties. I don't care much for Republicans or Democrats either. As I said, I'm Libertarian, but at the same time if he would sell out his old party just for a bid at the presidency with a new party that he doesn't even mesh that well with, I don't see good things in the future involving his trustworthiness. You never did debate the fact that he's donated to prominent Democrats like Hillary Clinton. I know he tried to defend himself on that in a recent interview but it still comes off as shady. Back in 2000 he wanted John McCain as part of his presidential cabinet, yet he didn't donate to the same man he wanted in his cabinet back in 2008, and instead supported Hillary back then?

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

I think Bernie's done, it looks like the Corporate/Establishment Dems have finally decided to turn the dogs on him. He doesn't take millions from Wall St. and he votes against wars. Can't have madness like that spreading around the party.

I'm kind of looking forward to the demise of the GOP too - Cruz or Trump, doesn't really matter. There's going to be a huge shitstorm. They've been offering piss poor candidates for the last 20 years. I'd like to see the party splinter, need to get away from the NeoCon/evangelical/tea party types.

 

[Deleted member 79804]

Has anyone here come across this clip? I watched this debate a month ago or several weeks back, Hillary basically said the same thing, acknowledged her "whiteness" on stage.

 

[Illuminati Confirmed!]

Has anyone here come across this clip? I watched this debate a month ago or several weeks back, Hillary basically said the same thing, acknowledged her "whiteness" on stage.

White people don't know what it's like to live in a ghetto.

It's funny that a Jew would say that.

 

[Buxbaum666]

Yeah, that's hysterical.

 

[Jogre]

Obviously a lot of this thread is pro Trump vs Anti-Trump, so I'm going to add my part regarding him.

Trump wants to actively forbid Muslims from entering the US. Just imagine, active discriminating against a certain group at an airport, because apparently the US has supposed problems with radical Islam. Let me put it this way, when was the last Islamic Terrorist attack on the US?, What like 15 years ago?, Think of all the numbers of non-muslims who have been behind mass shootings since then. And surely it would be awful for the US Economy to stop any forms of relations with roughly 23% of the worlds population.

Now on to his policies towards Mexico. He wants to deport mexican immigrants, are you aware that President Eisenhower tried to do the same thing with an immigration law called Operation Wetback?, It turned out to be far more expensive, and difficult than expected. Plus he wants to make Mexico pay for the wall, Why should mexico be expected to pay for such a thing?, Is it the fault of the Mexican government in any way shape or form?

On to the Abortion policy. The women who go to get abortions are most of the time desperate. They do it because either they can't look after a child, or don't want to go through an experience like childbirth. The choice to get an abortion is a major, and quite often traumatic event, therefore I don't think punishing the woman getting the abortion is anywhere near justifiable.

 

[MutantScalper]

Not all Jews know what it's like to live in a ghetto. A large percentage of US blacks living today do know what it's like. Also poverty effects US blacks differently from whites. Whites in US have an easier time getting into schools, getting jobs etc. then blacks.

 

[Illuminati Confirmed!]

Obviously a lot of this thread is pro Trump vs Anti-Trump, so I'm going to add my part regarding him.

Trump wants to actively forbid Muslims from entering the US. Just imagine, active discriminating against a certain group at an airport, because apparently the US has supposed problems with radical Islam. Let me put it this way, when was the last Islamic Terrorist attack on the US?, What like 15 years ago?, Think of all the numbers of non-muslims who have been behind mass shootings since then. And surely it would be awful for the US Economy to stop any forms of relations with roughly 23% of the worlds population.

Let me try to rephrase this.

Roosevelt wants to actively forbid Germans from entering the US. Just imagine, active discriminating against a certaing group at an airport, because apparently the US has supposed problems with National Socialism. Let me put it this way, when was the last Nazi/Japanese attack on the US? What like never? Think of all the numbers of non-Nazis who have been behind mass shootings since then. And surely it would be awful for the US economy to stop any form of relations with the most powerful nation in Europe.

Also, the last muslim attack on the US was in December (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/american-attacks.aspx). And what makes you think Arab petro-monarchies would suddenly be disgusted by American dollars just because Trump doesn't let them come to America?

Now on to his policies towards Mexico. He wants to deport mexican immigrants, are you aware that President Eisenhower tried to do the same thing with an immigration law called Operation Wetback?, It turned out to be far more expensive, and difficult than expected. Plus he wants to make Mexico pay for the wall, Why should mexico be expected to pay for such a thing?, Is it the fault of the Mexican government in any way shape or form?

The infrastructure needed to locate and deport the immigrants if far more developed today than it was in Ike's time. He wants Mexico to pay for the wall because they are profiting off illegal immigration (many immigrants send money back to Mexico). It's their fault that they suck, and America shouldn't be forced to suffer just because it's neighbors suck.

On to the Abortion policy. The women who go to get abortions are most of the time desperate. They do it because either they can't look after a child, or don't want to go through an experience like childbirth. The choice to get an abortion is a major, and quite often traumatic event, therefore I don't think punishing the woman getting the abortion is anywhere near justifiable.

Women who willingly break the law should be punished. That's how laws work. You make a choice and embrace the consequences. Should abortion be illegal in the first place is another question entirely, but letting women who willingly break the law go unpunished is a dangerous precedent. And what makes this whole subject all the more irritating is that there wouldn't even be a discussion about it if it was men breaking the law and getting away unpunished - everyone would (rightfully) agree that it's wrong.

Not all Jews know what it's like to live in a ghetto. A large percentage of US blacks living today do know what it's like. Also poverty effects US blacks differently from whites. Whites in US have an easier time getting into schools, getting jobs etc. then blacks.

It's actually easier for blacks to get into schools than any other group in America (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_the_United_States).

 

[Jogre]

Roosevelt wants to actively forbid Germans from entering the US. Just imagine, active discriminating against a certaing group at an airport, because apparently the US has supposed problems with National Socialism. Let me put it this way, when was the last Nazi/Japanese attack on the US? What like never? Think of all the numbers of non-Nazis who have been behind mass shootings since then. And surely it would be awful for the US economy to stop any form of relations with the most powerful nation in Europe.

Germany was literally under a Nazi government at the time. ISIS are a small group of Islamic Rebels within Syria, they make up a tiny minority of Muslims, and embargoing Muslims as a whole just seems unnescessary.

 

[Hassknecht]

How would Trump force Mexico to pay for the wall, anyway?
Not that the idea of the wall isn't hilariously stupid to begin with and just ridiculously expensive (a 10 foot wall is certainly more expensive than an 11 foot ladder).

 

[MutantScalper]

How would Trump force Mexico to pay for the wall, anyway?
Not that the idea of the wall isn't hilariously stupid to begin with and just ridiculously expensive (a 10 foot wall is certainly more expensive than an 11 foot ladder).

Recently he made a statement about cutting off the money flow from the US into Mexico. This flow would include the money sent to Mexico by Mexican immigrants living and working in the US. This is a huge sum. This act would force Mexico to pay for the wall. I just don't understand how Trump thinks he can...oh wait, I'm sure he doesn't think, he just says stupid things.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Trump wants to actively forbid Muslims from entering the US. Just imagine, active discriminating against a certain group at an airport, because apparently the US has supposed problems with radical Islam. Let me put it this way, when was the last Islamic Terrorist attack on the US?, What like 15 years ago?, Think of all the numbers of non-muslims who have been behind mass shootings since then. And surely it would be awful for the US Economy to stop any forms of relations with roughly 23% of the worlds population.

No my friend, you missunderstand that part. They have only a problem with those radicals that have no money.

Roosevelt wants to actively forbid Germans from entering the US. Just imagine, active discriminating against a certaing group at an airport, because apparently the US has supposed problems with National Socialism. Let me put it this way, when was the last Nazi/Japanese attack on the US? What like never? Think of all the numbers of non-Nazis who have been behind mass shootings since then. And surely it would be awful for the US economy to stop any form of relations with the most powerful nation in Europe.

Apples and Oranges. You love those kind comparisions, don't you? Let me ask you this. Is the US in war with Islam? Even Bush, as stupid as it was, talked about the War on TERROR, not the War on Islam. No one will question if the US would temporarily forbid a certain nationality to enter their borders, if they are in war with said nation. But to shun a whole religion? That, again, is discriminating. And that for a reason. It is what the Germans did with the Jews. Between 1933-45. If you want to make a comparision, do one that fits.
I will never understand this angst that some people have from Muslims. I have grown up with so many of them in my youth. You might not believe it, but they are normal people too.

 

[Izak]

I read the wikipedia entries on Trump and Sanders, ones a shady, occasionally racist business man, the others a civil rights activist with a history of opposing war. It boggles my fucking mind that Trump is winning over Sanders.