TheGM
The voice of reason
I should introodce all of you to the wonderful world of not giving a shit.
But I don't really care to.
But I don't really care to.
V.A.T.S. is NOT a combat system
- Thread starter HoKa
- Start date
Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
If you don't like how you take reduced damage in vats, there's a mod that fixes that.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=68
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=68
TheFlyingBuddha
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Damn, I'd really like to find out how they're making ESPs without an editor...
Hroesvelgr
First time out of the vault
HoKa said:
I don't see how you could complain about the one thing in the game that links the new style of combat to the old one. It is still stat based, it is still regulated by action points, and it is still fallible. In my opinion it bridges the gap between the turn based combat of the old games with the real time of the new one, and does a pretty good job of it. The idea was to make the player feel empowered and inject some roleplaying elements into the first person system. Besides, like other people have said already, once you hit the "go" button things play out as normal. People are still shooting at you, melee opponents are still charging you, and yes, if you choose your targets poorly you can still be killed while V.A.T.S. is playing itself out.
reticulate
First time out of the vault
Saying nobody else shoots (or mauls, or throws shit, or whatever) is a dead giveaway you haven't actually played the game.
reticulate
First time out of the vault
Roflcore said:
I've been killed directly after using VATS. It depends on what you're shooting and who else is going at you, in my experience.
I appreciate the damage is dialed down but how else do you do it? If you take control away from the player, you have to try and mitigate the negative impacts of breaking the fourth wall. You balance the reality of the fight without making me want to destroy my controller in a rage because something decimated me while in slow motion.
In a game like Burnout, for instance, destroying other cars gives you a quick, slow motion gratification of your work. During which unless you're already about to do something completely stupid you'll still likely be on the track. Not the same as an RPG, obviously, but they've applied the same thinking: we're breaking the fourth wall to do something cool, let's not make it aggravatingly painful at the same time.
madmaligor
First time out of the vault
Public said:
If your speaking about the normal vanilla setting, I agree with you (although I would argue its positives are greater than its negatives). A mod is already available, with more to come, so I don't see how this is an issue anymore. Ajusting the difficulty to a harder setting helps too. There is also the second or two of re-adjustment after coming out of V.A.T.S. that gives the computer a small edge.
Many games give an edge to players in different ways. Saying that V.A.T.S. gives you an edge and thus is not fair, is like saying all NPC's, no matter what level or area, should instantly skill up to an equivalent PC level to present a challenge (or skill down for that matter).
V.A.T.S., is not the end all be all, and will not allow your lvl 6 gun nut to waltz his or her way through the middle of downtown D.C.
Not only the point of VATS giving you better hits. But that you can pause the game while a grenade is in the air and shoot it. VATS gives you a god-like abilities.
In Fallout 1&2 wasn't anything like this. Even in Fallout tactics, you can play realt time and turn-base combat, but when you start a turn-base combat when your enemy's thrown a grenade at you, the grenade will hit you anyway.
Even in KOTOR games, there was RTwP combat, but you couldn't do such things like shoot the granade in the air.
VATS is not for Fallout sequal. It's a good system for a different game. Not Fallout.
In Fallout 1&2 wasn't anything like this. Even in Fallout tactics, you can play realt time and turn-base combat, but when you start a turn-base combat when your enemy's thrown a grenade at you, the grenade will hit you anyway.
Even in KOTOR games, there was RTwP combat, but you couldn't do such things like shoot the granade in the air.
VATS is not for Fallout sequal. It's a good system for a different game. Not Fallout.
chaosapiant
It Wandered In From the Wastes
I've died more times than I can count. Maybe VATS does give a slight advantage, but that point becomes moot when fighting 5 or 6 people at once. And I play on the vanilla difficulty setting. Seems ok to me. Combat, as it is now, has a great kinetic flow to it. If the enemies used VATS too, it would be a pointless throwback to the original fallouts, and it would be frustrating and tedious. I like VATS.
That being said, I wish the percentages given in a VATS shot took into condieration obstacles in the way. It's ok for the most part, but I can't count how many times I've unloaded my assault rifle into a small rock outcropping and then the enemy turns around and unloads on me.
That being said, I wish the percentages given in a VATS shot took into condieration obstacles in the way. It's ok for the most part, but I can't count how many times I've unloaded my assault rifle into a small rock outcropping and then the enemy turns around and unloads on me.
madmaligor
First time out of the vault
Public said:
I disagree, but I respect your opinion. /salute
V.A.T.S. when used against multiple opponents, especially on the harder settings, is what levels the playing field with comparable NPC enemies. Its not hard to see why the mechanic was introduced. Its got a huge fun factor as well.
All in all I think it fits, and becomes neccessary at times. In FO1/2 it was altogether too easy to use combat placement against the enemy or have placement issues cause the death of 1 or more of your followers. Yes it was tactics, but there were some glaringingly obvious tactics that are (ab)used by the player and not taken advantage of by the AI.
Because you died many times, it doesn't mean the system is good. It might mean many things:
That your gaming skills are weak or that the game's combat is like a simple FPS.
It's not an opinion madmaligor, it's a fact that VATS is not turn-based combat system.
That your gaming skills are weak or that the game's combat is like a simple FPS.
It's not an opinion madmaligor, it's a fact that VATS is not turn-based combat system.
chaosapiant said:
Are you fucking serious? Is this your first egoshooter? A slight advantage? VETS makes you godlike. Everyone on distance can't really harm you while you can strafe and kill em easily. 4 people come close? no problem, just use an smg our even a pistole on each head = win.
In addition it is impossible that somebody jumps you (not that the ai is smart enough to actually make a setup like this, but it happens per accident). notice somebody behind you while you fight some other guy? no problem, just turn around, I mean beam around.
Its a joke. I now have the no gode-mode vats mod installed and even with it on its very easy.
seriously, if you have problems with 5-6 enemys whatsoever you should better get back to halo or something.
chaosapiant
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Roflcore said:
I'm glad that you are a better gamer than I. That doesn't change the fact that I greatly enjoy VATS.
So the biggest complaint I'm seeing about VATS is it gives the player the ability to shoot grenades in the air? Really? Calling Fallout 3 easy is unfair and in my opinion its silly.
I agree with you chaos, this is all a matter of taste I suppose. VATs is really fun, and when you combine it with realtime the player can get a real unique experience. Since when are games supposed to put the player and NPC in the same system? Am I missing something?
I agree with you chaos, this is all a matter of taste I suppose. VATs is really fun, and when you combine it with realtime the player can get a real unique experience. Since when are games supposed to put the player and NPC in the same system? Am I missing something?
Hroesvelgr
First time out of the vault
Roflcore said:
Hey, those are fighting words, partner! Halo is a dedicated FPS, and it obviously takes a lot more time to master than almost any other FPS, let alone an RPG in first person.
My 1st post 
I haven't really played fo1/2 so i can't comment on those but imo fo3 is an epic game like TES so in essence one can say it's oblivion with guns :p .
Having said that... i like it a lot.
And it is a fallout game (since it take place in FO universe), idk if it's FO3 or FO something else tho.
I use vats when enemies are close, since weapons are highly inaccurate without it at close range (at max skill), but overall i think it would be better to make weapons more accurate and don't use it.
I haven't really played fo1/2 so i can't comment on those but imo fo3 is an epic game like TES so in essence one can say it's oblivion with guns :p .
Having said that... i like it a lot.
And it is a fallout game (since it take place in FO universe), idk if it's FO3 or FO something else tho.
I use vats when enemies are close, since weapons are highly inaccurate without it at close range (at max skill), but overall i think it would be better to make weapons more accurate and don't use it.
e_X_plosive
First time out of the vault
Ar1z said:My 1st post
epic game like TES so in essence one can say it's oblivion with guns
This sums it all, if u find oblivion an epic hame, then i understand why you think F3 is great. Go play first 2 fallouts then comeback. Fallout 3 is a good game, but it shouldn't be called fallout, coz it has almost nothing to do with first 2 games, sadly
. Too much fps for a rpg and too much rpg for a fps this is what this game is. Dialogs are bad(with some exceptions), the way skills and attributes affect the gameplay is stoopid, there are a lot of annoying little things that shouldn't be there, but overall it's a decent game, but again it shouldn't be called fallout imho, coz it's too different.