V13 tidbit

Brother None

Brother None

This ghoul has seen it all
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Chris Taylor made some off-hand comments on his vision for V13 (Fallout Online) on the Interplay forum.<blockquote>There are some MMOs that require grouping for mid-to-late play (FFXI comes to mind) and almost all MMOs force you to group for the majority of elder play.

Personally, and I'm not sure how this yet relates to V13, I like a combination of solo/group/raid content, with different goals and rewards for each. I have almost always soloed my characters to high level and then joined a guild for a raiding, grouping with friends occasionally along the way. Pick-up groups can be heaven or hell, depending on the players.

Certainly, we are planning on the proper tools to make grouping as easy as possible, while still allowing solo players to participate.

I've seen some discussion here and there about how many players is anti-Fallout (or, more generically, anti-post-apocalyptic). I'd disagree, of course, otherwise I wouldn't be involved in V13. There are plenty of precedents for grouping and social organizations. Even the Road Warrior had allies during his cinematic adventures. In Fallout, NPCs were always available to join your group and there were plenty of social organizations that had a number of members.

My vision includes the lone wanderer, erm, wandering through the wastes and a team of individuals working together for a common goal (like getting a truckload of fuel past some raiders). In any MMO, there will be times and places that have more people than others (social centers vs. instances, for example). It won't be all of one at all times.</blockquote>Thanks Ausir.
 
haha, I love this. Chris Taylor himself is creating a WoW clone in the Fallout setting.
 
Brother None said:
aenemic said:
haha, I love this. Chris Taylor himself is creating a WoW clone in the Fallout setting.
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Doing the same thing as all MMOs = WoWclone?

How delightful
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yes, pretty much.

I know it sucks, but every mmorpg wants to be wow and pretty much every big one that has come since wow has copied it or tried to make ideas wow had better (usually failing).

WoW wasn't the first mmorpg, we all know that. but it's the biggest one and it's the one that now makes developers want to make their own mmorpg to create a fat cashflow. and considering how much hope Interplay seem to put into V13, I can assure you they're not going to make something extraordinarily groundbreaking.
 
aenemic said:
WoW wasn't the first mmorpg
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No, but WoW did in fact copy a lot of its gameplay mechanics from other MMOs. In that sense, it's just silly to call something a WoW clone for simply having MMO mechanics that predate WoW. Criticize it for not being innovative all you like, but keep WoW out of it.
 
Brother None said:
aenemic said:
WoW wasn't the first mmorpg
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No, but WoW did in fact copy a lot of its gameplay mechanics from other MMOs. In that sense, it's just silly to call something a WoW clone for simply having MMO mechanics that predate WoW. Criticize it for not being innovative all you like, but keep WoW out of it.
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yet we all know that Chris Taylor plays WoW as does probably every other developer on this team. you can't keep WoW out of a dicsussion about mmorpg's.

that said, I was kind of joking when I said "WoW clone". my point still stands. oh, and I play WoW myself so I'm not complaining, mostly just pointing out the hilarity of the situation.
 
i really cant see how a WOW type raids would work in FalloutMMO, now i might buy 10 man raids, but nothing higher than that. It is "supposed" to be wasteland. I guess lot of 5=> man instances or special areas.
I guess its going to have good solo content.

But it still is just so weird..MMOs are grind based, so im not too sure about if it will work that well in Fallout setting.
Example:
Raiders respawning at raider base, and you have to kill them to get raider attack plans, so you can return them to sheriff pinkerton and get 500 caps *cough*gold*cough* and metal armor head piece with perception 1+ attachment lense ? :crazy:

And the fact that MMOs end up feeling like a chore. At least when i play shooters it isnt as boring, and tedious.

Though FalloutMMO might have the edge over the competition by being a non-fantasy MMO. And it has the Fallout story and world at its usage.

In the end this is just speculation, as we really don't know that much about it. Or if its even going to be released.
 
In my opinion, FOnline would work best under the Eve Online model. And the one being used in the Russian FOnline of DOOM AND FIGHTING. Make the game driven by the players. The economy, the crafting, all of it. Items are brought about because someone made it, bartered it for something else, and it gets passed around. People fight for resources to make stuff, safe havens, etc. towns just kinda spring up because people want to be based in certain areas.

But no, we'll get "You must team up with 9 others to defeat the President! Do this 20 times and you'll probably get some cool gun!"
 
I pretty much agree. Fallout Online could only be good under an EVE-like model. Under a WoW or EverQuest-like model it's going to suck, hands down, no doubt about it. Say what you will about Bethesda's Fallout model, even it is far superior to your typical MMO model when it comes to nailing the feeling and world of Fallout.
 
Trithne said:
In my opinion, FOnline would work best under the Eve Online model.
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I agree. Although I might allow some NCPs to essentially be workhorses so that the game doesn't force people starting out to just collect bottlecaps/farm/manufacture bullets (like I hear there is a bit too much of in EVE) and instead get to see a bit more action. It would be interesting to see a living economy arise from requiring food/water consumption and production coming from farms, brahmin ranches, wells, and water chips with merchants providing the go between. If done correctly even most raiders would kill the town guards and spare the farming townspeople to insure a future food supply.

Balance could be promoted by having Power Armor, Energy Weapons, and Big Guns as a limited supply and following the Fallout rule set. Eventually huge gangs would try to take down Brotherhood of Steel units just to get their hands on a couple of sets of Power Armor and their weapons. Also by just having aging occurring in the world (e.g. 80 year lifespan in 4 months of realtime) with appropriate stat reductions at old and reincarnations as coming of age characters who used to be NPC children you could be assured that there is no Level 60 race or perpetual dominance.

It would be great if the game world covered the land area from Fallout 1/2 and Van Buren and loosely followed the Fallout Bible timeline starting right after the bombs fell and allowed the world to develop on its own. Sure there would be difficulties getting the world to resemble the Fallout we know, but I think by just having the Vaults start out the way they are, having natural resources distributed as in Fallout (e.g. Shady Sands has a well, Redding has mines etc.).

Perhaps having the Master and the Frank Horrigan (the President could just be elected) as special hero characters with enough bonuses or whatnot to lead to the blossoming of the Supermutant armies and the Enclave plan. The hardest part would be keeping the Military Base and Navarro secrets and thus appropriately intact until they were large and looming threats to the wasteland. It would be simple to keep them unreachable if travel was performed via a map screen, but with a standard MMO travel system only the patrols/defenses/remoteness could keep them hidden.
 
coliphorbs said:
MMOs just kinda suck period. :/
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MMOs just kinda suck mainly because of the players who are not ready to make the slightest roleplay effort and are there just to create an uberpwnzer character...
 
iridium_ionizer said:
Trithne said:
In my opinion, FOnline would work best under the Eve Online model.
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Also by just having aging occurring in the world (e.g. 80 year lifespan in 4 months of realtime) with appropriate stat reductions at old and reincarnations as coming of age characters who used to be NPC children you could be assured that there is no Level 60 race or perpetual dominance.
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that's a great idea, actually all those you said are pretty great. Has anything like that been done before? they should study maxis games instead of wow for all that, highly unlikely..
 
dont really like that idea since it leads to a multitude of problems, such as (but there are many others):
- do you age while logged out? (if so, it keeps away the casual players; if not, it greatly favours boosting and twinking)
- can your gear be passed on to your kids? (most MMO have 'binding' equipment for specific reasons)


and that would also aim for a certain specific niche, which is something Herve would never do in the given circumstances.
 
I pretty much agree in everything Iridium Ionizer says. However, I still think that exploring the world and fighting should be the main focus. The game should still more game than chore.
 
MrBumble said:
coliphorbs said:
MMOs just kinda suck period. :/
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MMOs just kinda suck mainly because of the players who are not ready to make the slightest roleplay effort and are there just to create an uberpwnzer character...
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agreed
 
I don't see how someone could glean "FOOL = WoWclone" from those few paragraphs. From the information we have so far (admittedly, very little) I think the positives outweigh the negatives.

From that old GameBanshee interview with Jason Anderson, it sounded like he had no immediate need to return to the industry. I don't think it's something he would have done if it was to make a WoWclone MMO cash-in.

I don't think we'll have an MMO with rich RPG mechanics for a long time, but here is something that comes to my mind whenever I hear MMO bashers rant: Seeing as how pen & paper emulation was a corner stone of Fallout and other great cRPGs, doesn't that lend itself to an MMO being the ultimate cRPG? When was the last time you played a pen and paper rpg alone?
 
problem is MMOs tend to be, you know, GRINDY as hell. They feel like a chore after a time, even if they feel fun for a time while you are leveling and exploring.

And i really don't see MMOs as the ultimate PnP, maybe in the future, but not now. Also they tend to have ultra awesome classes/skills and useless classes/skills. The player base, however, is in the end, is the fall or rise of MMO. If the player base consists of idiots of all ages, the game will be awful to play.
 
The problem is, today's major MMO's cater to the solo uber pwns phat lewt r0xx0rs crowd. Saying that MMO's suck because the players are idiots is kind of like saying that public education in America sucks because the students are all idiots. They're a lot more intertwined than you seem to think.

Create an intelligent MMO, and intelligent gamers will come to it. Create an MMO that has no value to it beyond being a mindless, emotionless timesink and you'll get your typical crowd of pimply-faced virgin jobless losers to show up.

'Course, without the virgin jobless losers, you're probably not going to wind up with a very successful MMO either, not by WoW's standards, anyway. But if you come up with something original that has a bit of integrity to it, I don't see why you couldn't end up with success on the level of EVE after a while.

But the bottom line is, it's certainly possible to create a great cRPG that's also an MMO. But when you hear the developers start using words like "raids," and "mid-to-late play," you know you're winding up with something that's looking to fit comfortably between the stack of titles we've seen on the shelves for years, NOT something that's looking to stand out in any particular way.
 
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