[Warning: Very Long] An NMAdmission

[Dr Fallout]

Damn right. Morrowind was the pinnacle of writing in my opinion, having a well crafted world that was simplified by Bethesda.

I couldn't get into Morrowind when I was younger, but that was the period when I thought that Oblivion was one of the best RPGs so...

I'll need to try it again one of these days.

Trust me play it, if only for the world. Take your time reading and talking.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

I'm just gonna respond to the TLDR: No.

No, I don't 'just' want the old writing back. I want meaningful choice and consequence. I want the lore to be respected. I want multiple quest solutions. I want to be punished for my mistakes. I want to be locked out of content based on the choices I make. I want rich branching dialogue. I want a consistent coherent setting. I want to explore the world of humanity and not the world of dungeon themeparks. I want character skill over player skill (no fps). I want strategic combat that isn't twitch shooting (turn-based). Working together to make this happen isn't going to make it happen. Because Bethesda are not capable of making this happen. And even if they were there is zero reason for why they'd want to. They want to make money. That's all they care about. It is clear with how they butcher not just Fallout but the very franchise they themselves created just to make a quick buck.

I'm not interested in working together to get an inferior FNV. FNV was merely adequate to me as a Fallout game. It would have to suffice considering the circumstances. But it is 'not' what I truly 'want' out of Fallout. And what I want and what newer fans who like the first person iteration wants are going to be very different. So there is no working together. All we'll get is a game that fails to fully please both sides. Besides, Fallout is doomed. Fallout is dead. Bethesda is parading around a corpse. There is no saving that. There is no point in saving that. I'm not even interested in saving that because I realize that it is not a realistic goal to dream of.

No, what I'm interested in is poking at Bethesda with a pointy stick and saying nasty words towards it. Sadly, Bethesda is a giant and I'm an ant so it hardly feels my stick nor hear my complaints. But at least it makes me feel good to just call them a bunch of incompetent, greedy, artistically inept scumbags.

So yeah, I'm gonna keep doing that. It's not really productive and hardly constructive, but I tried both of the former after FNV was released up until Fallout 4's announcement trailer. That didn't do jack shit. So I don't see what 5 more years of wasted time is going to accomplish.

If Bethesda didn't listen after Fallout New Vegas what makes you possibly think they'd listen now?

I suppose I get your position, and while I do not agree with it (as I mentioned, Bethesda's Fallouts were the first of the open world games I played, my childhood memories, and the inspiration for me learning to be a developer), I still reiterate my statement. Beside so, I know NMA is not a hivemind of a single opinion, so the overview still stands for other people.

By the way, I mentioned all the counterpoints to your argument in my post, just so you know. It wasn't a rant, but more of a life story plus pseudo review of Fallout 4, so if you have time, please go over it again.

Don't take this as attack, but honestly, there is no fucking way in hell how anyone could defend something like this.



The game has at least 3 companions that are immune to radiation that you can take with you at the purifier. And no one saw that one coming ... and instead of eventually changing it, the only sensible alternative is ...? To literaly fuck the player.

And Fallout 4 contains at least as much cringe worthy dialog and writing like F3. And they are ok with it. THey are doing it intentionally. Like Kilus and others said. They do what brings them money. Fallout isn't the only game they ... simplified. Just talk to some old Morrowind fans, of which some are also around here.

To be fair, my standards were much lower at the time, and I was young. Hell, I was impressed by the plot of a CoD game. That should say a lot for my "impressed" requirements at the time.

 

[The-Artist-64]

While we're at these NMAdmissions, I've got a confession to make: my first game was New Vegas.

 

[TheRippaMan]

I think a lot of the prejudice against NMA, and even the Codex, to some extent is derived mainly from a lack of willingness to accept that others share different opinions and insights. As you can see here from this thread, no one is flaming you for your opinion. Rarely, do I see that here. On the codex, someone might insult you, but people play a lot over there too. If you don't have thick skin, then you may be offended.

The vast majority of Bethesda fanboys simply dismiss any negative or differing opinions of their games. I use to be apart of that community, and it's changed a lot over the years. Back in the day, when Morrowind was still in its prime, we had all different kinds of discussion regarding the faults and problems in that title -- what could be improved, bad writing, better companions, more interesting NPCs, ect. That conversation is pretty much ended due to the rampant fanboyism in the community today. Now they have their Bethesdrone Defense Legions on standby.

You can't say anything bad about the title, even if it might be an improvement. They also try to perpetuate a myth that with every Bethesda release, there is some backlash, but that simply dismisses any criticism brought upon the games. The criticism is indeed real and very poignant. Daggerfall fans criticized Morrowind for very legitimate reasons, just as Oblivion was criticized by Morrowind fans, just as Fallout 4 is criticized by fans of Fallout 3.

Even now, they bury their heads in the sand, blaming the low metacritic score on trolls, conjuring some kind of out-there conspiracy because it's just not possible that thousands of players have given up on Bethesda and Fallout 4.

If you want an open-minded community, it's here at NMA. Whether you like Fallout 3 or not, it doesn't matter, as long as you're respectful and know what you're talking about, and even if you don't, simply be humble.

 

[Marionettetc]

Here's my response to your wall of text I didn't bother reading :

 

[Crni Vuk]

To be fair, my standards were much lower at the time, and I was young. Hell, I was impressed by the plot of a CoD game. That should say a lot for my "impressed" requirements at the time.

That's totally OK man .

I never said you're NOT allowd to enjoy Fallout 3 or 4. Or that there is something wrong in enjoying games like F3 even. You just should be honest about why you enjoy it.

 

[TorontoReign]

To be fair, my standards were much lower at the time, and I was young. Hell, I was impressed by the plot of a CoD game. That should say a lot for my "impressed" requirements at the time.

That's totally OK man .

I never said you're NOT allowd to enjoy Fallout 3 or 4. Or that there is something wrong in enjoying games like F3 even. You just should be honest about why you enjoy it.

This. Saying it is the best RPG you ever played makes sense if it is the ONLY one you ever played. Acting as if Bethesda makes the best RPG's ever and people that deny that are jaded fanboy haters is the issue. Bethesda games are passable when not seen as RPG's.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

To be fair, my standards were much lower at the time, and I was young. Hell, I was impressed by the plot of a CoD game. That should say a lot for my "impressed" requirements at the time.

That's totally OK man .

I never said you're NOT allowd to enjoy Fallout 3 or 4. Or that there is something wrong in enjoying games like F3 even. You just should be honest about why you enjoy it.

This. Saying it is the best RPG you ever played makes sense if it is the ONLY one you ever played. Acting as if Bethesda makes the best RPG's ever and people that deny that are jaded fanboy haters is the issue. Bethesda games are passable when not seen as RPG's.

I never did say it was the best RPG ever made. Hell, one of Bethesda's main problems IMO is their attempt to appeal to too many people by fitting too many genres in one game. And I wasn't dishonest about anything in my main post.

I think a lot of the prejudice against NMA, and even the Codex, to some extent is derived mainly from a lack of willingness to accept that others share different opinions and insights. As you can see here from this thread, no one is flaming you for your opinion. Rarely, do I see that here. On the codex, someone might insult you, but people play a lot over there too. If you don't have thick skin, then you may be offended.

The vast majority of Bethesda fanboys simply dismiss any negative or differing opinions of their games. I use to be apart of that community, and it's changed a lot over the years. Back in the day, when Morrowind was still in its prime, we had all different kinds of discussion regarding the faults and problems in that title -- what could be improved, bad writing, better companions, more interesting NPCs, ect. That conversation is pretty much ended due to the rampant fanboyism in the community today. Now they have their Bethesdrone Defense Legions on standby.

You can't say anything bad about the title, even if it might be an improvement. They also try to perpetuate a myth that with every Bethesda release, there is some backlash, but that simply dismisses any criticism brought upon the games. The criticism is indeed real and very poignant. Daggerfall fans criticized Morrowind for very legitimate reasons, just as Oblivion was criticized by Morrowind fans, just as Fallout 4 is criticized by fans of Fallout 3.

Even now, they bury their heads in the sand, blaming the low metacritic score on trolls, conjuring some kind of out-there conspiracy because it's just not possible that thousands of players have given up on Bethesda and Fallout 4.

If you want an open-minded community, it's here at NMA. Whether you like Fallout 3 or not, it doesn't matter, as long as you're respectful and know what you're talking about, and even if you don't, simply be humble.

I haven't seen much of a prejudice against NMA unless I look in places like Reddit's r/games or GameSpot forums, who tend to be very toxic no matter what game is involved, so those don't really affect my opinion. Neither have I seen any intense, uninformed "Bethesdrone" who willingly defends even the most egregious of Bethesda's mishaps. Maybe I'm just looking in different places, then?

Every time I've discussed Fallout outside of NMA, most of the people that reply have criticisms similar to those on NMA. Most don't even consider NMA to be a hostile, hateful place - but instead a gathering of different opinions, if a bit unwelcome. The strong language used here (the way you use words, not swearing) might be a reason for said prejudice too.

Either way, I'm well aware that NMA is pretty open-minded. Thanks for replying with insight, and I look forward to being the voice of the other side here.

And if I may ask off-topic, why do quotes keep splitting halfway like it's doing above?

 

[The-Artist-64]

I haven't seen much of a prejudice against NMA unless I look in places like Reddit's r/games or GameSpot forums, who tend to be very toxic no matter what game is involved, so those don't really affect my opinion. Neither have I seen any intense, uninformed "Bethesdrone" who willingly defends even the most egregious of Bethesda's mishaps. Maybe I'm just looking in different places, then??

Speaking of which, check out what the nice folks at Reddit have been saying about the forum: https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/38us5y/no_mutants_allowed_is_the_most_depressing_forum/

 

[GlowHound]

Even when they brush the truth, they're still off.

"Some will give some leeway to Fallout NV, but for many not even that measures up."

It's been my perception that almost everyone here was satisfied by NV. I was.


"Bethesda is all about the setting and giving you as much agency as humanly possible"

That's a good one.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

I haven't seen much of a prejudice against NMA unless I look in places like Reddit's r/games or GameSpot forums, who tend to be very toxic no matter what game is involved, so those don't really affect my opinion. Neither have I seen any intense, uninformed "Bethesdrone" who willingly defends even the most egregious of Bethesda's mishaps. Maybe I'm just looking in different places, then??

Speaking of which, check out what the nice folks at Reddit have been saying about the forum: https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/38us5y/no_mutants_allowed_is_the_most_depressing_forum/

Even when they brush the truth, they're still off.

"Some will give some leeway to Fallout NV, but for many not even that measures up."

It's been my perception that almost everyone here was satisfied by NV. I was.


"Bethesda is all about the setting and giving you as much agency as humanly possible"

That's a good one.

I'm not... seeing a diversion between that post and the point I'm making. Most of the sayings on there simply label this site as toxic while a lot of it agree with your criticisms of both Fallout and TES.

And yes, this site does appear toxic. Like I said, your mature and indepth arguments are overshadowed by the strong words you use. I'll give you an example (no specific game) below of what I, and most would consider, toxic and offputting:

"[Game] had decent and responsive gameplay. Unfortunately, it fails to make up for the incoherent and baseless narrative, which detracted from literally all points of the game. It's literally why I could not stand [Game], and it's a clear sign of laziness and an absolute waste of the potential the introduction to [Game] set up. Try again next time, [Company Name]."

Those words above? They're considered aggressive and insulting, no matter what game it is being mentioned by what community. A lot of the members here overestimate the social tolerance of people on the Internet. Even if it was true and the theoretical [Game] mentioned above had an incoherent narrative, not sugaring your words can make you seem full of hatred. Trust me on this, I'm not referring to a Fallout game. It's just to any game in general.

I'm not saying you're wrong in how you talk. I'm just saying that talking that way is bound to raise some bad reputations. I was put off by nearly every post on Fallout I found on this site when I first arrived - even the ones I completely and utterly agree with.

I think a lot of the prejudice against NMA, and even the Codex, to some extent is derived mainly from a lack of willingness to accept that others share different opinions and insights. As you can see here from this thread, no one is flaming you for your opinion. Rarely, do I see that here. On the codex, someone might insult you, but people play a lot over there too. If you don't have thick skin, then you may be offended.

I think what this forum constitutes as thick skin is far beyond what should be expected of anyone on the Internet.

 

[Marionettetc]

I haven't seen much of a prejudice against NMA unless I look in places like Reddit's r/games or GameSpot forums, who tend to be very toxic no matter what game is involved, so those don't really affect my opinion. Neither have I seen any intense, uninformed "Bethesdrone" who willingly defends even the most egregious of Bethesda's mishaps. Maybe I'm just looking in different places, then??

Speaking of which, check out what the nice folks at Reddit have been saying about the forum: https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/38us5y/no_mutants_allowed_is_the_most_depressing_forum/

Even when they brush the truth, they're still off.

"Some will give some leeway to Fallout NV, but for many not even that measures up."

It's been my perception that almost everyone here was satisfied by NV. I was.


"Bethesda is all about the setting and giving you as much agency as humanly possible"

That's a good one.

I'm not... seeing a diversion between that post and the point I'm making. Most of the sayings on there simply label this site as toxic while a lot of it agree with your criticisms of both Fallout and TES.

And yes, this site does appear toxic. Like I said, your mature and indepth arguments are overshadowed by the strong words you use. I'll give you an example (no specific game) below of what I, and most would consider, toxic and offputting:

"[Game] had decent and responsive gameplay. Unfortunately, it fails to make up for the incoherent and baseless narrative, which detracted from literally all points of the game. It's literally why I could not stand [Game], and it's a clear sign of laziness and an absolute waste of the potential the introduction to [Game] set up. Try again next time, [Company Name]."

Those words above? They're considered aggressive and insulting, no matter what game it is being mentioned by what community. A lot of the members here overestimate the social tolerance of people on the Internet. Even if it was true and the theoretical [Game] mentioned above had an incoherent narrative, not sugaring your words can make you seem full of hatred. Trust me on this, I'm not referring to a Fallout game. It's just to any game in general.

I'm not saying you're wrong in how you talk. I'm just saying that talking that way is bound to raise some bad reputations. I was put off by nearly every post on Fallout I found on this site when I first arrived - even the ones I completely and utterly agree with.

I think a lot of the prejudice against NMA, and even the Codex, to some extent is derived mainly from a lack of willingness to accept that others share different opinions and insights. As you can see here from this thread, no one is flaming you for your opinion. Rarely, do I see that here. On the codex, someone might insult you, but people play a lot over there too. If you don't have thick skin, then you may be offended.

I think what this forum constitutes as thick skin is far beyond what should be expected of anyone on the Internet.

Hey homeboy, let me give you some valuable life advice. Maybe you till take it to heart.

Outside of your generation of pussies - the very same who willingly support the perversion of this hobby that existed long before you were even born (gaming), no one cares that you think you're a special little snowflake. Your whole "I unplugged from the matrix" novelty is anything but.

This whole thread seems to be the ravings of an attention seeking egomaniac and even in your last post you're trying to correct someone's behavior and "educate" them on how they come across. No one needs your community college psychoanalysis of self perception.

So congratulations, you're aware Bethesda writes shitty games. That doesn't change the fact you offer absolutely nothing to this forum.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

While we're at these NMAdmissions, I've got a confession to make: my first game was New Vegas.

Well, it's not Fallout 3. And there was also nothing wrong with starting with Fallout 3, so I don't see what's so about starting with New Vegas.

In which case, that's a unique perspective to have. What did you think of Fallout 4 in comparison to New Vegas?

 

[Crni Vuk]

Granted this community is a little bit rough. But maybe if you give it a chance and stick around long enough, in the end it will grow on you

We are small. We are bitter. Cynical even - at least some. And grumpy. But we actually like it that way. And we are happy in cultivating that, this little glittering gem of hatret .

I can not talk for everyone, but I would not be surprised if a lot of people feel similar. I like to use NMA to vent a little, you know. It's nice to have a place that has all the advantages of the Codex without the swearing, all the ... funn of 4Chan without the perversion. And beeing small enough to actually know most of the posters by their posting habbits. We all have our lives outside of the forum, and many of us love Fallout, but we know that's it's just a game, and I feel people take NMA and all that stuff that happens here a little bit to serious. So when people say NMA is this, NMA is that, it is toxic, they are just bitter. Well, what ever, we don't give a flying fuck , they have no clue how much we actually enjoy that kind of ... reputation.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

Granted this community is a little bit rough. But maybe if you give it a chance and stick around long enough, in the end it will grow on you

We are small. We are bitter. Cynical even - at least some. And grumpy. But we actually like it that way. And we are happy in cultivating that, this little glittering gem of hatret .

I can not talk for everyone, but I would not be surprised if a lot of people feel similar. I like to use NMA to vent a little, you know. It's nice to have a place that has all the advantages of the Codex without the swearing, all the ... funn of 4Chan without the perversion. And beeing small enough to actually know most of the posters by their posting habbits. We all have our lives outside of the forum, and many of us love Fallout, but we know that's it's just a game, and I feel people take NMA and all that stuff that happens here a little bit to serious. So when people say NMA is this, NMA is that, it is toxic, they are just bitter. Well, what ever, we don't give a flying fuck , they have no clue how much we actually enjoy that kind of ... reputation.

Oh, I get that clearly. And I'm fine with it. Not having every haven of talkers within the world be "Hail Bethesda" is a refreshing change. I'll definitely be here from time to time.

Hey homeboy, let me give you some valuable life advice. Maybe you till take it to heart.

Outside of your generation of pussies - the very same who willingly support the perversion of this hobby that existed long before you were even born (gaming), no one cares that you think you're a special little snowflake. Your whole "I unplugged from the matrix" novelty is anything but.

This whole thread seems to be the ravings of an attention seeking egomaniac and even in your last post you're trying to correct someone's behavior and "educate" them on how they come across. No one needs your community college psychoanalysis of self perception.

So congratulations, you're aware Bethesda writes shitty games. That doesn't change the fact you offer absolutely nothing to this forum.

Okay.

 

[TorontoReign]

I never did say it was the best RPG ever made. Hell, one of Bethesda's main problems IMO is their attempt to appeal to too many people by fitting too many genres in one game. And I wasn't dishonest about anything in my main post.

I didn't say you said that.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Granted this community is a little bit rough. But maybe if you give it a chance and stick around long enough, in the end it will grow on you

We are small. We are bitter. Cynical even - at least some. And grumpy. But we actually like it that way. And we are happy in cultivating that, this little glittering gem of hatret .

I can not talk for everyone, but I would not be surprised if a lot of people feel similar. I like to use NMA to vent a little, you know. It's nice to have a place that has all the advantages of the Codex without the swearing, all the ... funn of 4Chan without the perversion. And beeing small enough to actually know most of the posters by their posting habbits. We all have our lives outside of the forum, and many of us love Fallout, but we know that's it's just a game, and I feel people take NMA and all that stuff that happens here a little bit to serious. So when people say NMA is this, NMA is that, it is toxic, they are just bitter. Well, what ever, we don't give a flying fuck , they have no clue how much we actually enjoy that kind of ... reputation.

Hear, hear. NMA is the place where I can calm the fuck down by calling out the shit in Fallout 3 and 4.

 

[zegh8578]

Damn right. Morrowind was the pinnacle of writing in my opinion, having a well crafted world that was simplified by Bethesda.

I couldn't get into Morrowind when I was younger, but that was the period when I thought that Oblivion was one of the best RPGs so...

I'll need to try it again one of these days.

When you do, compare the experience of facing off to Mehrunes Dagon (with an army behind you, with Sean Bean dying for you, again)
vs facing off Dagoth Ur on your own

alone

Worlds apart, man!

 

[Dr Fallout]

Damn right. Morrowind was the pinnacle of writing in my opinion, having a well crafted world that was simplified by Bethesda.

I couldn't get into Morrowind when I was younger, but that was the period when I thought that Oblivion was one of the best RPGs so...

I'll need to try it again one of these days.

When you do, compare the experience of facing off to Mehrunes Dagon (with an army behind you, with Sean Bean dying for you, again)
vs facing off Dagoth Ur on your own

alone

Worlds apart, man!

It's a lot different then that though.

 

[FalloutFan85]

They want to make money. That's all they care about.

Well duh, that is the whole point of a company. Next you will tell us water is wet.