Atomic Postman
Vault Archives Overseer
Yeah it's really greedy of me not to want my money to go towards paying for another aircraft carrier, you know, the one that benefits me so it's okay that I'm fucking paying for it.
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What do anarchists want?
- Thread starter Shaodeus
- Start date
Yeah it's really greedy of me not to want my money to go towards paying for another aircraft carrier, you know, the one that benefits me so it's okay that I'm fucking paying for it.
Illuminati Confirmed!
Banned
I'd rather pay for an aircraft carrier than healthcare for someone I don't even know.
Atomic Postman
Vault Archives Overseer
May I ask why?
Throatpunch
Banned
I dont give a shit about paying for some random guy I'll never meet. I do give a shit about how the Aircraft carrier I pay for will protect me and my countries interests abroad. Also I am a massive military obsessive so I think almost all tax money should go to the military.
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Gorefiend
First time out of the vault
It's a fantasy invented by disillusioned chinese monks, adopted by french intellectuals, and co opted by nose ringed dirty sandal wearing punx with I-phones.
It would never happen naturally or peacfully, humans and primates, hell most mammals are organized in a pecking order. There is always a leader. An alpha male in the pack.
We are inherently tribal in design. If anarchism existed we would go to the lowest common denominator of our species.
We cant even have an election in this country without violence because we all belong to one tribe or another. Take away the tribe and we will eventually form new ones. See the "Diggers" in England.
Anarchism->Collectivism its just a nicer sounding way of taking your shit.
It would never happen naturally or peacfully, humans and primates, hell most mammals are organized in a pecking order. There is always a leader. An alpha male in the pack.
We are inherently tribal in design. If anarchism existed we would go to the lowest common denominator of our species.
We cant even have an election in this country without violence because we all belong to one tribe or another. Take away the tribe and we will eventually form new ones. See the "Diggers" in England.
Anarchism->Collectivism its just a nicer sounding way of taking your shit.
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Illuminati Confirmed!
Banned
Because aircraft carriers look nice and are only tools of violence, as opposed to welfare which is a tool of dysgenics.
Elaborate!
Please don't. I'd rather not see another discussion devolve into eugenics and social darwinism.
Spacemunkey
Vault Senior Citizen
I can't speak for your country, but in the US in 2015 the military accounted for over 50% of discretionary spending while education, veteran's benefits, and health and medicare accounted for less than 20% combined, so at least here we could do with a few less aircraft carriers.
Throatpunch
Banned
Yeah lets not go there, but if you must let me get my popcorn and comfier chair so I can watch it go down in comfort.
I'm afraid America is a superpower and to remain a superpower it needs a big deterrent to stop people (E.G: Russians) trying to steal their position, so your spending probably wont be going down for a long while. In simple terms: you mess with me I smash face in with big stick.
Was the same with the British and other historical powers.
They had this idea that they could stop spending on the actual army and tell people to join the reserves, but nobody cares about the reserves so they all joined the actual army. The government had been cutting our military, but thankfully they snapped out of it and started spending again. Its only at 56 billion at the moment, but its rising, which is good. We could do with some more emphasis on overseas territories, because other nations have been putting emphasis on how they want to own them. We are an island nation, naturally we need to spend a lot on the Royal Navy, which is why I am so enthusiastic about spending on aircraft carriers.
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Atomic Postman
Vault Archives Overseer
I personally don't see why we (UK) actually need anything beyond a defense force ala Japan.
I've always been a staunch supporter of draft.
I know many disagree, on both sides of the political spectrum even, but in my opinion, you get a few things covered with draft:
A certain percentage of the entire population recieves basic combat training. I was drafted. I would never have joined the army on my own, never. I don't join tennis either. I don't rallycross. Armying is one of the things I'd never ever do, but I was drafted and spent a year in a green uniform, crawling around in rocks and mud, shooting blanks at other doofuses, I learned a lot. I would never feel confident picking up a rifle, the type of person I am - but I now KNOW how to operate a G3 rifle. I have held and toyed around with an AK47, which - for a Norwegian - should be pretty rare. If I were to unlikely enough have to organize a defensive position, I wouldn't be the best ever - but I would know better than to just line everyone up standing on roof-tops, I would suggest trenches to be dug, I would suggest a good machine gun spot, and so on. Basic stuff! I really like the idea of ordinary people knowing basic military stuff.
The other benefit is quantity, like I said above, you cut a certain percentage out of the population. Sweden abandoned draft, went full pro, and as a result, their total army force dwindled.
During draft, Sweden - having a population twice of that of Norway, also had an army twice the size.
Today, the military of Norway is significantly bigger. A switch-around.
A final benefit is variation. In a drafted army you get soldiers who's main priority is to fight, survive, and return home. Survival instinct is intact, fighting spirit is intact (since ideally a drafted army is only used for defense), and you get to reduce the "Rambo factor" overall. This is a minor detail, but I still count it.
I know many disagree, on both sides of the political spectrum even, but in my opinion, you get a few things covered with draft:
A certain percentage of the entire population recieves basic combat training. I was drafted. I would never have joined the army on my own, never. I don't join tennis either. I don't rallycross. Armying is one of the things I'd never ever do, but I was drafted and spent a year in a green uniform, crawling around in rocks and mud, shooting blanks at other doofuses, I learned a lot. I would never feel confident picking up a rifle, the type of person I am - but I now KNOW how to operate a G3 rifle. I have held and toyed around with an AK47, which - for a Norwegian - should be pretty rare. If I were to unlikely enough have to organize a defensive position, I wouldn't be the best ever - but I would know better than to just line everyone up standing on roof-tops, I would suggest trenches to be dug, I would suggest a good machine gun spot, and so on. Basic stuff! I really like the idea of ordinary people knowing basic military stuff.
The other benefit is quantity, like I said above, you cut a certain percentage out of the population. Sweden abandoned draft, went full pro, and as a result, their total army force dwindled.
During draft, Sweden - having a population twice of that of Norway, also had an army twice the size.
Today, the military of Norway is significantly bigger. A switch-around.
A final benefit is variation. In a drafted army you get soldiers who's main priority is to fight, survive, and return home. Survival instinct is intact, fighting spirit is intact (since ideally a drafted army is only used for defense), and you get to reduce the "Rambo factor" overall. This is a minor detail, but I still count it.
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Banned
You can get people to know basic military stuff just by allowing them to own guns and form a militia. No need for a year of slavery.
Allow?
I'm allready allowed to join the Norwegian armed forces - and that is my point.
By having a military that consist of only those who dream of forming militias, you miss out of a lot of valuable assets to an army.
With draft, you cut a slice out of the population. Like I said - I would never have joined the army, and even less formed some nutty militia, but I fully - FULLY - appreciate the military basic training I have gotten.
"Slavery" lol
It's not slavery :]
Spacemunkey
Vault Senior Citizen
I'm not saying completely defund our armed forces, I'm just saying that as a nation we could stand to reallocate some of that spending a bit into things like education or infrastructure, things that would create jobs and make sure the future of our military is better than the ones preceding it not worse. Or you know..
I guess that's why every half-decent nation with some power has a professional military, with all the training shenanignazs and such ... cuz militia + gunz is just as efficient ...
Illuminati Confirmed!
Banned
Let's go over the basics of slavery:Allow?
I'm allready allowed to join the Norwegian armed forces - and that is my point.
By having a military that consist of only those who dream of forming militias, you miss out of a lot of valuable assets to an army.
With draft, you cut a slice out of the population. Like I said - I would never have joined the army, and even less formed some nutty militia, but I fully - FULLY - appreciate the military basic training I have gotten.
"Slavery" lol
It's not slavery :]
- You are forced into it - check
- You're not allowed to leave at will - check
- You have to obey your superiors - check
You liking it doesn't change what it is.
Eh...
1. You're not as forced as you think, you can "declare pacifism", depending on country. Check.
2. You can leave. Not at will, but that would make workplaces and school slavery too. Check.
3. You have to obey your superiors everywhere in the fucking world - including THE ARMY. You didn't think that last one through very well, did you? Can I laugh hysterically now?
4. Draftees get paid.
But still, #3 is still making me shake with laughter, man, you're a comedian!
Doesn't mean that you should not question it. I think most people with a sane mind can see the need for a decent military force. However, when you're simply take a look how much Russia, China and Europe spend on their military budged and compare that with the US budged, it begs the question if the US really requires such an extensive and large military. How do they say, trim the fat, not the muscle.
This definition of slavery is so ... wonky, it's not even funny anymore. What do you consider "forced" here? Since when are you forced into military service - unlike war time?
Seriously, do you even know how those things work? If we follow your definition, almost ANY contract that you have, could be considered a form of slavery.
MutantScalper
Dogmeat
I think draft is a good system when it's implemented well. I went into our system back in -96 and back then it wasn't yet optimum system. Since then they've shortened the service time and made it better, it's still kinda stupid from what I hear.
Still if we didn't have it, in order to counter the 'threat' of Russia, we'd need to have a pretty big professional military, stronger airforce, mines still in use, etc.
Still if we didn't have it, in order to counter the 'threat' of Russia, we'd need to have a pretty big professional military, stronger airforce, mines still in use, etc.