What has Bethesda done now?

[Mr Fish]

There's been a lot of criticism over their engine in the last two games, Fallout 76 especially, but seeing as how both Starfield and TESVI are both in development it is probably too late for them to just switcharoo buckaroo the engine to another one, so I wonder how that will fare with the next two games as the cracks in the walls become increasingly apparent.

I mean, Fallout 4 got criticized for being ugly and not on par with other games on the market. Imagine how far behind Starfield might fall.

 

[KingArthur]

@Mr Fish That’s a fair point. But isn’t that a Beth hallmark at this point; being behind the times in terms of graphics?

 

[Gizmojunk]

I don't get the complaints about the graphics; never have. The issue I had with their graphics (for FO3) was that they copped out on the ghoul faces , in favor of using Face-Gen for features and lip-sync... Which meant that only the feral (creature-class) ghouls actually looked right for the setting. Bethesda's NPC Ghouls look like crap —in a bad way; their feral ghouls, not so much.

As I understand it... a lot of the engines/recent titles that are considerably more realistic looking —first... are trying to be, and second, tend to have less flexible lighting, and harshly optimized level geometry... That just wouldn't do for the TES & TES-FO maps.

What [very exactly] is meant by dated graphics, in this context?

My own disappointment from the outset of FO3—specifically, was that their engine was totally capable of rendering all NPCs at the fidelity and appearance of the original Fallout 1&2 cutscenes... and they wasted the option in favor of "TES-in the 1950's".

We could have had this instead:

 

[KingArthur]

I actually don’t have any issues with gambryo-era Beth graphics. But the faces in 4 and the expressions thereof made me uncomfortable.

 

[Crni Vuk]

I don't get the complaints about the graphics; never have.

The way how they use it simply sucks and honestly the engine does not age really very well. I mean there are countless of memes about their engine, facial expressions, missing dynamic shadows and a lot more. Bethesda manages to push the engine further, but they also seem not to be really proficient? No clue. I mean F76 introduced bugs again, that have been fixed since Fallout 3 ... so it really is not only the visuals.

Bethesda doesn't need a new engine. They need a new managment.

 

[WeissYohji]

The way how they use it simply sucks and honestly the engine does not age really very well. I mean there are countless of memes about their engine, facial expressions, missing dynamic shadows and a lot more. Bethesda manages to push the engine further, but they also seem not to be really proficient? No clue. I mean F76 introduced bugs again, that have been fixed since Fallout 3 ... so it really is not only the visuals.

Bethesda doesn't need a new engine. They need a new managment.

Bethesda needs 1) new management, and 2) proper quality checks and testing to make sure their games actually WORK RIGHT. How have they not had a class-action lawsuit brought against them for making faulty products and releasing them with the knowledge that they were defective? HOW?

Todd Howard only sees dollar signs instead of games and gamers. It's time he went out to pasture. It's someone else's turn. Preferably someone who actually gives a shit about whether their games work on as many platforms as possible.

Also, CUT OFF TIES TO BRANDON "OXHORN" DENNIS! He sells bootleg Fallout shirts, which is PIRACY. He abuses his influence as a large YouTube channel and content creator to shut down smaller channels, especially whenever they disagree with or correct him on anything. He also has a history of hate; he's bashed atheists, gay people, trans people, and anyone who isn't white. The atheist-bashing was back during Oxhorn's WoW days, when he killed an atheist character in a Machinima. The homophobia and transphobia can be traced to old posts (i.e., "Rainbow Rights" and one other written shortly before it) along with video of Oxhorn, his brother, and two other people bitching out a guy for asking if Oxhorn would date him. As for the racism, there's some old blog posts and the fact that he whitewashes nonwhite characters in FNV through mods. He thinks greed is good, stating that his goal is to get very rich so he can bring about a "great change". He acts condescending to his own fans, again, whenever they correct him. He views anyone who criticizes FO4 as "toxic", as if Bethesda can do no wrong. Oxhorn is also a hypocrite; he wrote in his "Manlyfesto" (the same one where he runs down gays and glorifies greed) that he thinks porn is "un-manly" but has no problem with using nude mods in FO4. If Bethesda can sock homophobic FO76 players with lifetime bans, they can do the right thing and cut ties with that neckbearded, cigar-chomping, scotch-swilling, power-tripping bigot.

Here's a SFW exposé on Oxhorn and his shit.
I first discovered this and a few others (some SFW, some not) nearly a month and a half ago. When I learned of the homophobia, especially, that hit close to home because I have gay relatives. I'll be damned if I sell them out by supporting a bigoted YouTuber.

It was also shortly after watching those videos that I realized I was a lesbian woman trapped in a guy's body and had been hiding it my whole life. Known I didn't feel right in a male body at least since puberty but became more aware of it over time, especially within the last two years. Hit me in bursts at first, then came rushing harder and harder. Felt like a voice constantly shouting, getting ever louder, screaming, "You're a fucking woman, goddamn it!" I'm not out to my family yet, though, nor anyone else offline. I had a physical recently so now I plan to consult with my doctor again to start hormone replacement therapy (or at least get a referral to an endocrinologist). Ditto laser hair removal, starting with that fucking five o'clock shadow. Immediately after that, it's off to court to do the name and sex marker change, then update my driver's license, Social Security card, tax info, etc. A few years of HRT, laser treatments, and social transitioning later, I'll cap things off with bottom surgery. And to celebrate my gender transition, I'll pick up some chicks at a lesbian bar, take them home, smoke some weed, and scissor the shit out of them. I might even film it and make it a diss porno to piss Oxhorn off. It doesn't have to be after I finish transitioning, though. It can even be prior to bottom surgery.

 

[KingArthur]

@WeissYohji oh c’mon, it’s not a glitch it’s a feature. You just wish the rattling sound of that skeleton clipping through the wall would stop so you can play the game, but what you don’t realize is that the Bethesda team put the scenery halfway into itself so that the noise would distract the player, adding another dimension to combat.

Чертов гений.

 

[Mr Fish]

Graphics never matter to me. Art design on the other hand is very important and if you're not going to great graphics then a stylistic approach might be better in todays market.

But the unwashed masses cares about graphics. And it's not just the graphics really. The AI of NPC's, the writing, the way it plays (like the damn pipboy UI), all of it pales in comparison to a lot of other games on the market, especially to the unwashed masses.

Oh and people were willing to put up with Bethesda's bugs for a long time because the games they made were so big and complicated because of the RPG mechanics and shit that it was bound to come with issues as how could a studio possibly stamp out everything? But now more and more games are going sandbox and showing their complexity in a vast open space and suddenly the excuse for Bethesda is wearing damn thin. Fallout 76 was especially awful when it came to this but there's a critical eye on Bethesda in regards to the QA of the game and that is something that could definitely hurt Bethesda.

- - - -

Anyway, back on topic, Bethesda has had adequate and even good writing sometimes but it's far outweighed by all the times it has shit writing and the fact that they're blatantly copying other people's work and at this point even straight up CTRL C + CTRL V, well, it speaks volumes about their writing department. Unless it has changed dramatically for Starfield and TES VI it's bound to follow the same footsteps as before.

And I don't get it. I understand if Emil is buddy buddy with Todd and so despite how shit his writing is they don't throw his ass out but wouldn't they keep an eye on what the audience actually thinks is a good storyline and go "oh hey, this part over here that one of our interns wrote, people actually really enjoyed that. Maybe we should hire her for a full time writing role". They seem to be completely blind towards a lot of criticism which makes me wonder if they're living in a bubble, isolating themselves from any and all proper criticism.

But this wasn't even someone from within said bubble. This was from a completely separate studio or whatever that works on a PnP game and not on a main studio game. And even then we get straight up plagiarism.

Honestly, with all of the fuckups that are happening surrounding Bethesda my suspicion that someone inside of there is purposefully sabotaging everything strengthens. Like, this should not happen. Not from a corporation as big as Zenimax and everything that falls under it. I understand shit quality being sold as it takes less effort to make money but plagiarism? Something smells fishy to me.

You don't fuck up this bad unless someone is forcing it. Nuka Rum? Shouldn't have happened, communication is key and the moment the bottling company says they can't do the glass bottle you pull out and you do this WAY BEFORE release date so that you don't have to delay it. Canvas bags? Shouldn't have happened, ran out of materials my ass. Launch day failures? Shouldn't have happened, delay the game. Atomic Shop prices, shouldn't have happened, but this time it is on the audience and not Bethesda: Because the audience should have criticized Bethesda for doing this exact thing in TESO. Giving influencers paid trips and actual canvas bags? Shouldn't have happened.

A lot of these things simply should not have happened. If this game was made on the side and the main guys from Zenimax's board and Todd and Pete and whatever other gremlin you can think of didn't pay an iota of attention to F76's development EVEN THEN they should have seen what the final product was like closer to release date and gone like "no, we cannot release this in the state that it is in".

I've long said that I find Bethesda to be staffed by way too many incompetent buffoons but this goes beyond incompetence for me.



Then again, Fallout 76 was rushed. Nuka Rum was probably rushed. Bags were probably rushed. Maybe this PnP game was rushed as well and the writers were like "fuck I have to write 120 paragaphs in the next 4 hours." and then they do and copy someone elses because they have to produce SOME kind of writing before the deadline.

Which makes me wonder why the hell everything is getting so rushed. If it is because of greed than I guess I can understand that. But considering the landscape of gaming at the moment it isn't greed pushing this need for ALL the money. It's the need to appease the people at the very top (Zenimax) lest they want their studio to be cut down because it isn't making enough money.

Anyone who's seen Jim Sterling's videos about this subject knows exactly what I'm talking about.
Perpetual growth which balloons to an unattainable level.

If Bethesda is caught in this net their 5 year development cycle might not cut it anymore. Might explain the state F76 is in.

Either they're caught in the same trap or they replaced their water coolers with retard juice or someone is sabotaging things from behind the scenes.

 

[Deleted member 53669]

Rage 2 looks pretty good.

 

[Walpknut]

It's not so much the power of the engine than the art direction that makes graphics worse. In FO3 and New Vegas NPCs look mediocre but they don't look agressively terrible, There are a bunch of mods tht proove you can in fact have unique looking NPCs in New Vegas, in FO4 everyone looks like a crappy toy covered in dirt. I don't really care about graphics as much as I care about aesthetics.

I regularly play games with the typical "Bobbing idle" that run on PSvita and they never look ugly to me, but I boot up Fallout 4 and everything looks like a malformed sack of potatoes.

 

[WeissYohji]

@WeissYohji oh c’mon, it’s not a glitch it’s a feature. You just wish the rattling sound of that skeleton clipping through the wall would stop so you can play the game, but what you don’t realize is that the Bethesda team put the scenery halfway into itself so that the noise would distract the player, adding another dimension to combat.

Feature my aching ass. It's very immersion-breaking to have skeletons clip through walls and floors. It's also why I stopped using Gauss rifles in favor of the almighty holorifle. The knockback from the Gauss rifles can send a corpse flying well away from anywhere you could retrieve and loot it, and they don't do anything the holorifle doesn't do better anyway. Though I've had skeleton-clipping issues regardless of whatever weapon I or my companions use.

And then there's those random CTDs. I tried installing the FNV anti-crash plugin for NVSE but still keep getting random crashes anyway. I also have a fuckload of companions active. If it's any help, here's my load order:

Spoiler

FalloutNV.esm
GunRunnersArsenal.esm
DeadMoney.esm
HonestHearts.esm
TribalPack.esm
MercenaryPack.esm
ClassicPack.esm
CaravanPack.esm
LonesomeRoad.esm
OldWorldBlues.esm
DMVMInHouse.esm
AEVegas.esm
CFWNV.esm
DMVMInOWB.esp
MyL38.esp
NVLadyoutfit1.esp
BNED Merged All.esp
Brotherhood and House Alliance.esp
PlayableHHTribals.esp
QRE.esp
Steamer.esp
PancorJH.esp
BCGv1.0.esp
HAS Heavy Assault Shotgun.esp
12gaExplosiveC4.esp
FalloutNVCheatTerminal.esp
StartNewGameAlmostPerfectOWB.esp
LFox Missing Ammo Recipes.esp
LFox Missing Ammo Recipes HH DLC.esp
LFox Missing Ammo Recipes GRA DLC.esp
UnlimitedCompanions.esp
UnlimitedCompanions SCRIPT FIX.esp
PerkEveryLevel.esp
Improved Throwing1.esp
Deathclaw Gauntlet Schematic.esp
Prototype.esp
GypsyOutfitsNV.esp
Improved Casinos.esp
DLCCompanions_1_3.esp
FlareShotgun.esp
TheLegionWillRyse.esp
Sawed off Double Long Barrel.esp
CaesarOutfit.esp
LFox Pip-Boy Stealth Boy Addon.esp
Free the Slaves.esp
Visible Implants Mk II.esp
JuryRiggingFirst.esp
ArmoredVeraDress.esp
Lore Fix - Asian Daniel.esp
DeanDominoFollower.esp
FollowsChalkFollower.esp
ChristineFollower.esp
DogGodFollower.esp
JoshuaGrahamFollower.esp
WakingCloudFollower.esp
Ultra Luxe Fountain Cut Content.esp
lucky38mapmarker.esp
Accurate This Machine.esp
SuperHeatedKnifeSpear.esp
Alternative Energy (and Energizer).esp
Craftable Holorifle.esp
Addiction immunity.esp
BlackjackPackULTIMATEv2.esp
Tribal Skill Perk.esp
FreshStart.esp
ZELDABarbarianArmor.esp
FNV Burst Pulser.esp
Dealing With Contreras Quest Fix.esp
CFW-DLC.esp
AllCWeaps.esp
HSS-94 V1.4.esp
50 cal MG 2.esp
UberAssualtShotgun.esp
SMGL.esp
PlasmaGreatsword.esp
aevegas modded.esp
FNV Vertibird Blade Sword.esp
Doom_Weapons.esp
Samatron015_SWRC_Weapons.esp
FemaleOfThe87Tribe.esp
zzjayHairsFNV.esp

Total active plugins: 81
Total plugins: 86

Bear in mind that I bought the game a year after it came out, played it for a bit, and then stopped for the longest time. Only within the last few years have I picked FNV back up and finished the game, DLCs and all. I also didn't get all the add-ons at the same time. Those I got later, after my first complete run (finishing the main quest, any %).

 

[Risewild]

And then there's those random CTDs. I tried installing the FNV anti-crash plugin for NVSE but still keep getting random crashes anyway. I also have a fuckload of companions active.

Your "random" CTD are caused by your tons of companions and mods. That is user's fault not NV fault.

 

[Ediros]

Your "random" CTD are caused by your tons of companions and mods. That is user's fault not NV fault.

Well, You can still have a fairly stable New Vegas game. However, one You need a proper guide like Fear and Loathing or a ton of knowledge. Even then, gamebryo is one of the worst engines in existence. Personally, after my last playthrough in New Vegas I think I would rather wait for OpenMW.

 

[WeissYohji]

Your "random" CTD are caused by your tons of companions and mods. That is user's fault not NV fault.

Thanks.

Funny thing is, I don't have anywhere near as many mods active in FNV as I did back in Oblivion. During the height of my Oblivion days, I actually installed enough mods to break the limit.

I downloaded those companion mods and then kept having all the base game, Dead Money, and Honest Hearts followers with me because I can't bring myself to dismiss them once I've recruited them. Particularly Christine. Her ending slide (if she survives) has her stay in the Sierra Madre and never leave. WHAT THE HELL? The Courier just saved Christine from Elijah and she just stays there all by herself? Surely she'd get lonely! And with those Vera holograms yelling, "SINCLAIR! SINCLAIR! WE ALL PAY FOR WHAT WE'VE DONE," you'd think that'd get grating on her after a while. At least reunite her with her long-lost wife, Veronica. And Follows-Chalk? If he's going to explore civilization (which is how I finish Civilized Man's Burden), at least have him reunite with the Courier. And I like having the whole gang with me to fight Lanius and Oliver at Hoover Dam. Makes me feel like I'm leading an army to kick the Legion and NCR out of the Mojave.

 

[Risewild]

My advice is for you to check for mod errors and incompatibilities using FNVEdit, and make a merge patch if necessary.
And don't walk around with more than 2 or 3 companions at the same time. Leave the rest somewhere (lucky 32 suite if you own it is a goo place). Then alternate your followers from time to time, if you feel like adventuring with different ones.
Also check NVTF out, it's handy for performance.

 

[WeissYohji]

@Risewild: I usually scoop up most of my hit squad beginning after Dead Money (i.e., reentering the Suites and recruiting Christine) and then wait to get Boone and/or Arcade until after entering the Strip. During my current playthrough, I've been a bit more conservative with my companions up until after I did Boone's quest and then dismissed him. Currently, I've got Christine, Veronica, ED-E, Waking Cloud, Follows-Chalk, Raul, Cass, Rex, Dog, and Lily with me just to take them to the Lucky 38. I already killed Benny and recovered the Platinum Chip. I killed Dean Domino back during Dead Money (all because I passed a 50 Barter check with him); first time I ever had to. Normally, I exterminate the White Legs but because I'm playing as a White Leg, I just evacuated the Dead Horses and Sorrows at the end of Honest Hearts. When I had Boone with me (between finishing Lonesome Road and recruiting Follows-Chalk and Waking Cloud), I disguised myself as a NCR Ranger most of the time due to having mixed rep with the NCR. Ditto when I recruited Cass, and then up until finishing Heartache by the Number (the violent option). I haven't recruited Arcade yet because you can only do For Auld Lang Syne so late in the game.

All that said, this is what I want in Bethesda's next Fallout game: CHOICES! If I want to be railroaded, I'll play Zelda, Final Fantasy, or Secret of Mana. Why lock us into a narrow path instead of letting us role-play however we want? Same goes for Elder Scrolls VI; playing Skyrim felt like I had several quests forced on me when all I want to do is finish the main quest during my first run! I bought the Special Edition shortly after last Christmas, and I haven't even finished it yet. But then again, I haven't had any random CTDs or other glitches in that, unlike Oblivion and FNV. If we get remasters of those two, PLEASE use the Creation Engine AND make sure it works right the first time around.

 

[Risewild]

I haven't had time to keep up with gaming news, so I missed a couple things. Like how the Elder Scrolls Blades was called a total cash grab with it's ridiculous long timers and the amount of them. Bethesda seems to have patched those a bit, so I don't know how the situation with that game is now.

Bethesda also implemented DRM on the classic Doom games :
https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/26/...rm-log-in-online-connection-bethesda-quakecon
It took less than one full day for the backlash to hit home and now Bethesda says they will remove the bethesda.net account login requirement :
https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/27/8933167/doom-login-requirement-being-removed-bethesdanet-drm
I really don't know what Bethesda is thinking. After Fallout 76, you would think they would be more cautious, but instead they seem to burn themselves over and over. What is funny is that they seem to always backtrack their bad decisions now.
I start to think that the Fallout 76 backlash really hurt them somehow and so they now always backtrack their bad decisions quickly. I bet it won't last, but at least it seems like they are spooked at the moment.

I will update the first post with this one too.

Also, wasn't there something about Wolfenstein: Youngblood recently? Something about paywalls or something? I don't have time to look into it, and a quick google search didn't reveal much.

By the way, does anyone know when Fallout 76 will have private servers and mod support?

 

[SquidWard]

By the way, does anyone know when Fallout 76 will have private servers and mod support?

I think that they said about a year after launch. And PCGamer did have this article 2 days ago.
https://www.pcgamer.com/fallout-76-private-servers-are-coming-sooner-than-you-think/
As for mods? I guess they'll eventually get mods but they'll likely be something you have to buy, Creation Club I think?

And fun twist ahead, private servers likely won't be private servers because they'll fuck it up in some capacity. Mods won't be like Nexus Mods that you can use. Bethesda has been trying to monetize mods since 2015. They've probably been thinking about it since Oblivion.

 

[Crni Vuk]

I am so glad GoG exists. Fucking DRM. I hate it.

 

[Mr Fish]

I really don't know what Bethesda is thinking. After Fallout 76, you would think they would be more cautious, but instead they seem to burn themselves over and over.

Same thing with Take Two. They had Rockstar introduce literal gambling into a DLC where you could pay real world money to spend in a digital casino. After all the shit that has happened in regards to governments starting to take a closer look at all of the scummy tactics that happen in the gaming industry they think that now is the most optimal time to introduce a literal casino. Literal gambling.

Either the gaming industry is heading for a balloon popping moment where their need for perpetual growth in profit is going out of control or they've turned into masochists that want daddy to spank them and spank 'em guuuuud.

Praise Satan I don't play new games and got a hefty backlog of old games to go through.