What kind of weapons do you want to see in F3?

[Sorrow]

Amen to this!

Their time period may raise hairs with some people, but that is why the choices have to be careful.

The other problem with F2 weapons was that all guns in F1 except DE and Mauser were fictional. When I played F2 I was convinced that F2 weapons are fictional too, because fictional weapons fit the Fallout setting and real ones don't. Fallout 2 lost a lot in my eyes, when it turned out that most of these weapons exist IRL.

IMO Some F2 weapons like FN-FAL or Grease Gun fit the setting by the virtue of their 40/50sness.

On the other hand I don't like modern F2 weapons.
Why add RL 80s weapons that don't fit the setting, when one can find a lot of great (and crazy) ideas in 50s weapons research projects?

 

[IAN_SUCKS]

I never said I wanted to turn fallout into an action game. I like the strategy and rpg aspects but I hated how slow the game played. When Fallout Tactics came around I hated the lack of rpg aspects but I loved how everything ran smoother and looked better. As wrong as it was for deathclaws to be covered with fur, the tactics deathclaws didn't slowly lurch forward, dragging their knuckles, they actually ran right at you. The Awaken mod gives you a chance to play a game (vaguely) similiar to the original, but with all the new bells and whistles. As for the 50s feel of the game, AR15s and AK47s were first built in the late fifties, so a futuristic version of them could still be included in a fallout setting. Fallout lacked variety of weapons so you didn't have a choice, in fallout 2 there were more weapons to choose from so you could specialize your tactics. In fallout 1 if you wanted to throw a hell of a lot of bullets at someone you got a minigun. But what if you wanted more power and fewer shots? In fallout 2 you could switch it up with a bozar or the support weapon. The nuclear war in fallout happens about 70 years from now. Whos to say in the fallout universe history up untill this point is unchanged? Give me proof that none of what happened in real life happened in the fallout universe. There sure as hell isn't any proof in the game because you aren't supposed to know. After the bombs everything started over. Since there is no way of finding out about the past of the fallout universe (which is good, because it adds to the ambiance) whos to say what did or didn't happen. I have some proof that weapons we see today existed in some form in the fallout universe though. After the WW2, people realized that a high power semi-automatic rifle wasn't going to cut it anymore, expescially in urban warfare. SMGs were too innacurate to be used in teh open, where rifles excelled. Machine guns were deadly no matter where they were placed, but were too heavy to lug around. The governments started to work putting together accurate, high rate of fire low caliber weapons. Ar15s came pretty close to being .22 cal instead of .223. As time went on these assault rifles were perfected by trying to get the most force out of the smallest bullet. As assault rifles became more and more lethal governments began to search for effective means of body armor. Eventually, due to the high power of assault rifles, conventional body armor would be rendered obsolete and a new alternative would be needed. Power armor is one such alternative. Power armor wouldn't exist if it weren't for the rise of the assault rifle. I don't know if the history would be the same but the weapons would probably be similiar.

 

[Duckman]

I never said I wanted to turn fallout into an action game. I like the strategy and rpg aspects but I hated how slow the game played. When Fallout Tactics came around I hated the lack of rpg aspects but I loved how everything ran smoother and looked better. As wrong as it was for deathclaws to be covered with fur, the tactics deathclaws didn't slowly lurch forward, dragging their knuckles, they actually ran right at you. The Awaken mod gives you a chance to play a game (vaguely) similiar to the original, but with all the new bells and whistles. As for the 50s feel of the game, AR15s and AK47s were first built in the late fifties, so a futuristic version of them could still be included in a fallout setting. Fallout lacked variety of weapons so you didn't have a choice, in fallout 2 there were more weapons to choose from so you could specialize your tactics. In fallout 1 if you wanted to throw a hell of a lot of bullets at someone you got a minigun. But what if you wanted more power and fewer shots? In fallout 2 you could switch it up with a bozar or the support weapon. The nuclear war in fallout happens about 70 years from now. Whos to say in the fallout universe history up untill this point is unchanged? Give me proof that none of what happened in real life happened in the fallout universe. There sure as hell isn't any proof in the game because you aren't supposed to know. After the bombs everything started over. Since there is no way of finding out about the past of the fallout universe (which is good, because it adds to the ambiance) whos to say what did or didn't happen. I have some proof that weapons we see today existed in some form in the fallout universe though. After the WW2, people realized that a high power semi-automatic rifle wasn't going to cut it anymore, expescially in urban warfare. SMGs were too innacurate to be used in teh open, where rifles excelled. Machine guns were deadly no matter where they were placed, but were too heavy to lug around. The governments started to work putting together accurate, high rate of fire low caliber weapons. Ar15s came pretty close to being .22 cal instead of .223. As time went on these assault rifles were perfected by trying to get the most force out of the smallest bullet. As assault rifles became more and more lethal governments began to search for effective means of body armor. Eventually, due to the high power of assault rifles, conventional body armor would be rendered obsolete and a new alternative would be needed. Power armor is one such alternative. Power armor wouldn't exist if it weren't for the rise of the assault rifle. I don't know if the history would be the same but the weapons would probably be similiar.

Ever tried re-reading what you wrote??

The return/enter key is your friend.

 

[Tagaziel]

The. Setting. Diverges. From. Our. Timeline.

The. Technology. Evolved. In. A. Different. Way.

So. What. You. Say. Is. Warranted. Void.

Each sentence has been put in this way, because you obviously have trouble catching what Fallout is about.

It's not about speedy OMGHAXXORZ combat, it's about plot, immersion and world, combat is not a dominating feature, therefore it does not require speed. It is fluid, but not speedy, allowing players to actually think about their tactics, unlike Tictacs, where the most effective one was "rush the enemy with aggressive mode on".

So, Fallout: Tactics is NOT a good example of how a tactical game may look. JA2 is. FOT is not.

Second, the amount of weapons in Fallout 1 was realistic, you don't really have such a variety of weapons available in a proportionally small, nuked out area, do you? Second, the feel of Fallout 1 was more streamlined, and why the hell should the military bother with machineguns when they have man-portable miniguns?

 

[Roshambo]

I never said I wanted to turn fallout into an action game.

Really? I do believe you advocated FP RT to be "kewwwl!" in another thread. So now you're a confirmed liar.

I like the strategy and rpg aspects but I hated how slow the game played.

The game is only slow to slow children. That just means the game is shifting to reverse to run you little retards over again.

When Fallout Tactics came around I hated the lack of rpg aspects but I loved how everything ran smoother and looked better.

"Ooooh! Shiney!"

As wrong as it was for deathclaws to be covered with fur, the tactics deathclaws didn't slowly lurch forward, dragging their knuckles, they actually ran right at you.

Which looked more like someone in a sheep costume with a carrot up their ass, as I've said for...oh, since the title was announced to have SheepClaws™. Whereas...the ones in Fallout lurched because they were the FEV mutation of Jackson's Chameleons, turned newly bipedal. Thank you for neglecting to know what the fuck you're talking about.

Oh, wait, that hasn't stopped you yet.

The Awaken mod gives you a chance to play a game (vaguely) similiar to the original, but with all the new bells and whistles.

Which, compared to doing more worthwhile work like using the JA2 engine to mod a post-nuclear setting, could hardly be considered "bells and whistles".

Not much can be done with the FOT engine, as it frankly is shit, which is why 90% of the modding teams that formed before release disbanded because the game could NOT be saved.

As for the 50s feel of the game, AR15s and AK47s were first built in the late fifties, so a futuristic version of them could still be included in a fallout setting.

Now only if your mind had the capacity to apply that thought to the rest of the weapons you want, so that they fit within the setting and science fiction style, and we wouldn't be having to go over the obvious for the benefit of the slow.

Fallout lacked variety of weapons so you didn't have a choice, in fallout 2 there were more weapons to choose from so you could specialize your tactics. In fallout 1 if you wanted to throw a hell of a lot of bullets at someone you got a minigun. But what if you wanted more power and fewer shots? In fallout 2 you could switch it up with a bozar or the support weapon.

Again, moron, the style of the weapons, or the presence of real-world weapons, is not excused by having "more weapons".

And as for more power with fewer shots, try the turbo plasma rifle. <s>Stop being a moron.</s> I'd tell you to stop being a moron, but it would be easier to try and disprove that your mother/aunt/sister are the same person.

The nuclear war in fallout happens about 70 years from now. Whos to say in the fallout universe history up untill this point is unchanged?

How about the authors, moron? You know, it might help to READ while playing the game, not just take what you know from the first five minutes of playing it.

Give me proof that none of what happened in real life happened in the fallout universe.

For instance, Fallout uses vacuum tubes instead of microchips. The silicon semi-conductor was never invented in the Fallout world, and the timeline (which is available if you weren't too lazy to look for it) would explain that and other important points in detail.

There sure as hell isn't any proof in the game because you aren't supposed to know.

Translation: "I um...couldn't find anything...so instead of learning of something about the setting...I reached behind me and pulled out some steaming brown lumps for an answer!"

After the bombs everything started over. Since there is no way of finding out about the past of the fallout universe (which is good, because it adds to the ambiance) whos to say what did or didn't happen.

How about the information that you find in the Glow, Boneyards, the Brotherhood...you know, those who DO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED? Part of the setting's fun is discovery.

Try playing game with brain on, DEE! DEE! DEE!

(Snip a load of gun idiocy.)

You are an absolute idiot, and I hope any<s>one</s>thing that has the misfortune to breed with you, willingly or otherwise (I suspect), will have the foresight to acknowledge that anything from your gene pool will never have a chance of living a normal life.

 

[Sorrow]

you don't really have such a variety of weapons available in a proportionally small, nuked out area, do you?

Why?

Second, the feel of Fallout 1 was more streamlined, and why the hell should the military bother with machineguns when they have man-portable miniguns?

Why do you think that a man portable minigun can replace all LMGs, GPMGs, HMGs, etc?

 

[Wooz]

 

[Sorrow]

Geez, Wooz. I'm not questioning the validity of Fallout's design or canon, but the logic behind the Mikael Grizzly's answers.
Look:

1.

you don't really have such a variety of weapons available in a proportionally small, nuked out area, do you?

Why?

I don't agree with theory that variety of firearms in Fallout 1 has anything to do with "realism" - "small, nuked out area" doesn't explain, why most of people use Colt pistols or Israeli Desert Eagle pistols. Also, Fallout has, IMI Desert Eagle pistol, Sig Sauer 14mm pistol, Glock Plasma Pistol, H&K SMG, etc. so I don't see any location-based lack of variety.

Does it make me an enemy of Fallout, canon, etc.?

2.

Second, the feel of Fallout 1 was more streamlined, and why the hell should the military bother with machineguns when they have man-portable miniguns?

Why do you think that a man portable minigun can replace all LMGs, GPMGs, HMGs, etc?[/quote]
I don't agree with the "and why the hell should the military bother with machineguns when they have man-portable miniguns?" part.
I don't recall any-in game about how pre-power armor US Army was armed, except the "out of use around the time of the war" Assault Rifle.

Does it make me an enemy of Fallout, canon, etc.?

 

[Tagaziel]

Dear Sorrow,

It's because Fallout EVIDENCED that CZ-53 Miniguns replaced machineguns. What is the incontrovertible evidence? Brotherhood of Steel. DIRECT descendandts of military personell from the Mariposa Military Base, nad it can be safely assumed it was a regular combat unit, as they were equipped with T-51b Power Armours.

In addition, military grade weaponry you see in Fallout includes Laser, Plasma and Pulse rifles, Miniguns, Rocket Launchers and the Gatling Laser. NO regular machineguns to be found, and the ones that were introduced in Fallout 2 are either a real-life weapon (The Light Support Weapon, or rather L86) or a badly designed 'gun' (Barrett looking machinegun with minigun sounds and Flamer animations), so the claim machineguns are in Fallout is void.

Second, it is safe to assume that important military bases were nuked, annihilating most of military arsenal located there. Also, most larger cities were nuked, destroying or at least badly damaging whatever weapons can be found there. If they weren't, there is still a low chance that after 80 years of lying in disuse it will be working.

Third, the AK was going out of use, because, get this, the energy weapons were being developed, and intended as the next generation arms for the US Army?

M1A1 Thompson -> ... -> AK-112 -> Wattz 2000/Winchester P94
Browning Auto Rifle -> ... -> CZ-53 Minigun -> H&K L30 Gatling Laser
Uniform -> ... -> Combat Armour -> T-51b Power Armour

We can't fill the blanks, because we don't know what weapons were used in the 1950s-2070s period were used, but it can be safely assumed judging by their absence, that they were decomissioned in favour of better arms. E.g. man-portable miniguns.

 

[Lord 342]

Amen to this!

Their time period may raise hairs with some people, but that is why the choices have to be careful.

The other problem with F2 weapons was that all guns in F1 except DE and Mauser were fictional. When I played F2 I was convinced that F2 weapons are fictional too, because fictional weapons fit the Fallout setting and real ones don't. Fallout 2 lost a lot in my eyes, when it turned out that most of these weapons exist IRL.

IMO Some F2 weapons like FN-FAL or Grease Gun fit the setting by the virtue of their 40/50sness.

On the other hand I don't like modern F2 weapons.
Why add RL 80s weapons that don't fit the setting, when one can find a lot of great (and crazy) ideas in 50s weapons research projects?

While most of the Fallout weapons were fictionalized, most of them were from real-world firms. Even the Minigun was made by Rockwell, a real-world millitary hardware company (now Rockwell-Collins). I'm not sure about this, but I think they actually make the modern miniguns. (either them or General Dynamics...). Which is largely my point. There is little reason for "archytypal" weapons to change much, maybe an advanced model number but something still recognizable to you or me. A mix of real-world manufacturers and fictional ones aids player absorption because the familiar, real-world names lend their credability to the fictional ones. Too many fictionalized things and the story becomes too pulpy, not enough and it looses its fantastic quality.

I'm by no means stating that Fallout 2 had perfect balance when it came to arms. The Light support weapon, H&K CAWS and XL70E3, were needless both in terms of weapon progression and name-dropping. But while Fallout 2 added as many fictional weapons as it did real-world guns; it still managed to sacrifice some of its fantastic element by way of placement. The Thopmson should have been marginally rarer (it was close; If I remember it can only be bought in one shop) and much more effective; etc.

 

[Roshambo]

Geez, Wooz. I'm not questioning the validity of Fallout's design or canon, but the logic behind the Mikael Grizzly's answers.

Really? Let's take a look.

IMO Some F2 weapons like FN-FAL or Grease Gun fit the setting by the virtue of their 40/50sness.

Then that's one idiotic opinion, because 40's/50's guns do not have ANYTHING to do with a "post-apocalyptic P&P CRPG as depicted by a 50's sci-fi author". So why the fuck would a 50's sci-fi author include more real-world guns from their time when it's the FUTURE?! Fallout takes place in 2170, 120 years after the 50's, and an author would have make improvements (like some envision larger calibers, different case sizes, Fallout was merely a parallel to our own universe with alternate and fictional weapons), but wouldn't have lamely kept more than one or two real-world guns that are about 200 years old at the time of the Chosen One. One or two might work, as museum pieces.

By their nature 50's weapons DO NOT fit the setting, as real-world weapons don't, and should be handled as an exception or a rarity.

BIS decided to be munchkinfesting idiots and put a load of irrelevant shit everywhere with Fallout 2, and I disagree with Lord 342, more real world guns were put in versus the fictionalized ones, even more by merit of how numerous of their presence is during gameplay.

Let's try a little role-playing, shall we?

You decide to co-author a science-fiction series that has normal weapons evolution in an alternate timeline to our own, affected by the timeline's unique set of events. It is also industrially productive 127 years into the future from the writer's time. Then, it's taken through an apocalypse, to a final time setting of 211 years after the writer's time.

Now try to tell your partner that since they wrote the fiction today, that they should use today's guns in the futuristic but now post-apocalyptic setting, and you'll have a good example of the common idiocy surrounding Fallout canon in regards to guns. And you'll probably be getting the same look as you're getting right now.

To put it in deference of those bad at math, it would be like depicting Tupac and Biggie having a gansta shootout in 2217 with Glock 9's despite the fact that guns were being constantly innovated and manufactured up to 2133.

Considering that we've been over this topic before, in almost the same fucking thread...what seems to be your problem in understanding parallel universe progression?

As written by a 50's sci-fi author, or retrofuture 50's, does NOT mean that they will just use 50's guns. There's a reason why FOT's weapons are primarily from WWII, because MicroForté couldn't be bothered to do any good work, as per BIS' hatchet job on what Troika left behind, and the quality is slipping. We don't need the setting to be destroyed any further through ignorant "fans" encouraging ignorant developers to do even more stupid shit than they already have on TES, thank you.

"80's" guns are used, originally mostly faceless and per the universe, because...apparently, there's something between 1950 and 2077. About 127 years, of which you don't seem to believe would lend to continued gun manufacture, including calibers that parallel our own in parody. So those 10mms and else are really the 1911 of Fallout, as antique pieces, and little more, given the rest of the weaponry that includes PLASMA RIFLES.

It mystifies me as to why people would rather dice over what are considered the antiques in the Fallout universe and go Counter-Strike bugshit about them, versus noting that weapons development in Fallout went towards energy weapons after a bit more conventional weapons development.

Of course, this assumes that people actually played up to that part, which could explain why they don't know shit about canon, given that energy weapons and the information you can find about the world Pre-Great War seem to be in the same general places.

Does it make me an enemy of Fallout, canon, etc.?

Only when you can't be bothered to learn about it before you stupidly make remarks about it.

 

[Sorrow]

Thanks for the lecture. I see that (Despite playing F1/F2 tens (hundreds?) of times) I have to learn (or unlearn) a lot more about the setting .

*lurker_mode_on*

 

[Roshambo]

Just mainly trying to get you to understand an important point, that it would be more likely to have remaining relic weapons (as the last legacy of pre-energy and pre-handheld minigun munitions) of ~160 years old, versus weapons ~210 years old, which are already considered antiques today. Even then, those 160 year-old weapons would be along the rules of the alternate universe, which parallels our own in a few ways, from an indeterminate divergence point or points.

That is something that the author, in their tech progression, would write in consideration for. It was done to a decent amount in Fallout, but then Fallout 2's "Cherry 2000" approach to the setting didn't really help.

Fallout actually started in 2161, I had that incorrect earlier, but was using that number to round out how long it would have progressed since then, in particular in the mind of authors already convinced that we'd be driving flying cars and visiting Mars by today. This is supposedly from a 50's viewpoint that is yet another bit of irony around Fallout, that 50's science fiction theorized a similar effect to the gas shortage of the 70's. The 1950's were years of SCIENCE!, and the wild imagination of breaking scientific frontiers with new discoveries and horrors. But they also were there to bring an important message about humanity.

 

[E]

F3 Weapons
my .02

Hand weapons (knuckle duster type)
I think that even the weapons from tactics that fall into this category fit in the fall out world. The shotgun gloves are a useful "shoehorn" to give a HTH fighter some (as in a small) chance against more difficult opponents

Melee weapons
Machetes fit and swords don't
(only my opinion here no argument to back it up)
Spears yes
Dynamite spear yes (but only because deathclaws exist)
Diamond spear NO
Cattle-prod (needs a re-write, Electro-baton doesn't fit either but I can't think of anything better)

Guns
No real world guns. But saying that a gun may bear a resemblance to a real gun. Like the use of existing gun manufactures though.
Lots of guns
Lots of different kinds and calibers of ammo
Remember the military guns in fallout evolved to take on an armoured foe.

Absolutely no grenade launchers (wrong technology and feel wrong), But rifle grenades should be included.
Personally liked the Gauss weapons

Energy weapons
Yup at least three categories
Lasers (good vs armour)
Plasma (good vs Meat)
Emp (good vs Machine)

Heavy weapons
Should be more difficult to find and use and more effective to counter that out.

More explosives
Including smaller ones.
Dynamite can take out a door, but what if you just want to take out a lock

 

[Vandal]

What do you think about this gun?

Solar Scorcher , i realy like it, its good damage, i dont need ammo, but need to be day , anyway what do you think to put this in FO3?

 

[Silencer]

I think there is already a waepons suggestions thread over here.

 

[Sorrow]

Re: What do you think about this gun?

Solar Scorcher , i realy like it, its good damage, i dont need ammo, but need to be day , anyway what do you think to put this in FO3?

I don't like this idea. Solar Scorcher was an unique encounter weapon just like Alien Blaster.

 

[GruppeSechs]

Another thing I'd like to see is just less weapons and ammo in general. It would deffinately make finding a weapon or buying one more exciting, plus i'm not sure about you but whenever I play I always end up with way to much ammo and a ton of extra guns. I'd like to see a larger selection however not guns like "Pistol, Pistol Mark II, Pistol Mark III" they need to be creative. I think its neat how you can upgrade your weapon and I think thats good enough. Anyhow, thats my 2 cents on it .

I totally agree. One of the most fun experiences I had in Fallout 2 was bartering away almost everything I had (stole from people in Klamath) to buy a 10mm pistol, ammo, and a leather jacket to go play exterminator in Trapper Town. Fighting to stay above water inventory-wise and coming out on top in battles regardless makes things more interesting. I guess you could just CHOOSE not to grab stuff to barter with, but that's not very realistic if you're even remotely a role-player. "Hmm...That combat shotgun might bring in some bucks...Naaah, I'll tough it out against the next horde of mutants!"

As for ideas, I'd kind of like to see some Big Guns category weapons that are single shooters (and aren't rocket launchers). The weapons used by the bad guys at the end of Robocop seems to come to mind.

Also, more guns with knockback capability. Shotguns at close range and such (assuming they don't kill the target first).

One more. Scoring massive non-killing criticals while targeting limbs...must...make...them...explode. Both causing and recieving. Wouldn't it be fun to travel the wastes with no arms? Wouldn't it?! Then you'd have to choose the Perk "Monkey Toes" that had better be introduced into FO3, just so you could fire a weapon again.

 

[Grotesque]

Big Guns category weapons that are single shooters ?
like what!? portable howitzers? one in each hand because of another perk like monkey grip?

monkey toes...monkey grip (see NWN2) I am sick with this monkey shit!

 

[GruppeSechs]

Portable Howitzers. Sure, why not?! Fallout's most notable trait isn't exactly discreetness.