What kind of weapons do you want to see in F3?

[SuAside]

More "real weapons"
NOt weapons that we use now, most of those would be ruined by the time the fallout games started, besides they would have been updated and the real weapons should be replaced with near future counter parts I.E. the M16A3 would be replaced with the fictional M16A7 or an XM8. Some modern weapons could be added in, but only the choicest of todays firearms that can't really be improved upon (like a stinger missile launcher or a barret sniper rifle.)

no. just no.

there should be no real weapons in FO3, not even real guns modded to fit a futuristic view of the guns. FO needs functional and believable guns, but real guns simply don't belong in FO. it simply breaks the setting if you include real guns.

oh, and a stinger & barrett sniper rifle can both be greatly improved upon. if you want a 'fixed' value, try a Browning H2B .50cal or a 1911 .45 colt.

A powerful Desert Eagle
Before you get into the whole Hollywood gun vs realistic gun debate, keep in mind that regardless of the hype, the Desert Eagle .50 AE is an extremely powerful gun. While in modern times that makes it useless for anything except hard-core plinking, in a wasteland a pistol like that would be extremely useful in a close up encounter. Deathclaw to close for that sniper rifle's one shit per turn? Put a few slugs in it. The downside to the gun would be the rarity of JHP and AP rounds for it.

a Desert Eagle is expensive, heavy, has questionable accuracy and is really picky when it comes to ammo. something tells me that's far from being an ideal gun in the wastelands.

it isnt useless in modern times btw, Israeli riot cops use it. mostly for the psychological threat though. it's one badass looking gun...

anyhow, a desert eagle never fitted in FO. i really wouldn't mind if they just dropped it out. (but since Bethesda is all about "ooooh shiny!" and "zomg! this is teh cool", i'm pretty sure we'll be seeing a lot of DE's.

 

[Sander]

More "real weapons"
NOt weapons that we use now, most of those would be ruined by the time the fallout games started, besides they would have been updated and the real weapons should be replaced with near future counter parts I.E. the M16A3 would be replaced with the fictional M16A7 or an XM8. Some modern weapons could be added in, but only the choicest of todays firearms that can't really be improved upon (like a stinger missile launcher or a barret sniper rifle.)

Ugh. The whole point of most Fallout weapons was that they were generic and somewhat rag-tag, because most of the guns wouldn't have (properly) survived such a long time. Hence why real weapons are always misplaced.
Modern weapons would be misplaced in any case because most modern weapons don't fit the feel of the Fallout setting.

A powerful Desert Eagle
Before you get into the whole Hollywood gun vs realistic gun debate, keep in mind that regardless of the hype, the Desert Eagle .50 AE is an extremely powerful gun. While in modern times that makes it useless for anything except hard-core plinking, in a wasteland a pistol like that would be extremely useful in a close up encounter. Deathclaw to close for that sniper rifle's one shit per turn? Put a few slugs in it. The downside to the gun would be the rarity of JHP and AP rounds for it.

The Desert Eagle was already a relatively powerful handgun in Fallout, more powerful than the normal 10mm handgun, and only beat by the custom .223 and the rarer 14mm Pistol.

More SCIFI guns
They fill an important niche in the game, the only thing that needs to be fixed is they need to be extremely dangerous if you don't know how to use them. Also, make energy cells less abundant, but rechargeable at any generator (with the necessary skill first.) One fusion cell should get you one about ten shots on the rifles, and 3 cells would give the laser chaingun enough power for a couple of bursts.

Rechargeable fusion cells at any generator? That seems to go pretty much against the Fallout idea of no fossil fuels and hence very, very few working generators, making those sci-fi weapons near useless.

If the new fallout used these ideas they would have a fun and balanced (if somewhat unrealistic) game.

The guns make the game fun, now?

 

[Sorrow]

More "real weapons"
NOt weapons that we use now, most of those would be ruined by the time the fallout games started, besides they would have been updated and the real weapons should be replaced with near future counter parts I.E. the M16A3 would be replaced with the fictional M16A7 or an XM8. Some modern weapons could be added in, but only the choicest of todays firearms that can't really be improved upon (like a stinger missile launcher or a barret sniper rifle.)

Yeah it would be cool .
Especially if Barret sniper rifles would be used by Talking Inteligent Hairy Deathclaws

 

[IAN_SUCKS]

There would be working generators, old nuclear power plants could be repaired (and modified to run on"junk" uranium), wind plants could be built, hell, you could even use fusion plants hidden in the vaults, If energy weapon had to be recharged instead of finding new cells they would have to rely on a smaller supply unless they found new cells which would be rare. This would allow energy weapons to be used in the early parts in the game so more players would tag the skill. The player would only be to find a few fusion packs early on so in order to use energy weapons early on they would have to choose between a few shots at regular power, or to conserve energy by firing at half or quarter power. In all the fallout games, energy weapon skill had to have skill points poured into it long before the player actually got to use them.

I don't mean that all the weapons should be "real." I just think that ther are a few notable weapons today that should be kept. Fallout 2 had the best balance in fake and "real" weapons, but could have had a few more big guns.

As for the desert eagle, it should be the third most powerful non-energy handgun in the game (behind the gauss pistol and 14mm.) It can be assumed that in 70 years from now some of the kinks will be worked out. As to it being too shiney for the wastes, not all desert eagles have chrome or gold plating. Many of them are black. The black ones should show up in the game and very rarely a chrome model would be found.

 

[Sander]

There would be working generators, old nuclear power plants could be repaired (and modified to run on"junk" uranium), wind plants could be built, hell, you could even use fusion plants hidden in the vaults,

Right, because that's all so easy and abundant in the post-nuclear world that is Fallout. Psch.

If energy weapon had to be recharged instead of finding new cells they would have to rely on a smaller supply unless they found new cells which would be rare. This would allow energy weapons to be used in the early parts in the game so more players would tag the skill.

...
Huh? Becuase energy supplies are rare energy weapons can be used early on?
Also, the entire point of energy weapons is to be rare and powerful, and hence meant for the mid to late game, not the early game.

The player would only be to find a few fusion packs early on so in order to use energy weapons early on they would have to choose between a few shots at regular power, or to conserve energy by firing at half or quarter power. In all the fallout games, energy weapon skill had to have skill points poured into it long before the player actually got to use them.

No it didn't. It isn't that hard to get better at energy weapons, but the whole point of them was that they are exclusive weapons. Once you find them, you'll probably think they're really good but you'll also be crap with them. Hence why you train *then*. It's more or less why they're placed the way they are.

I don't mean that all the weapons should be "real." I just think that ther are a few notable weapons today that should be kept. Fallout 2 had the best balance in fake and "real" weapons, but could have had a few more big guns.[/qutoe]
Ehm, no it didn't. It had almost no fake guns and a shitload of superfluous real weapons.

As for the desert eagle, it should be the third most powerful non-energy handgun in the game (behind the gauss pistol and 14mm.)

In Fallout, it *is* the third most powerful handgun. In Fallout 2 it is the fourth most powerful one, since the guass pistol was added (and perhaps one or two more completely superfluous weapons).

It can be assumed that in 70 years from now some of the kinks will be worked out. As to it being too shiney for the wastes, not all desert eagles have chrome or gold plating. Many of them are black. The black ones should show up in the game and very rarely a chrome model would be found.

Right, so we'll just assume that the Desert Eagle becomes more powerful but not that other weapons become even more powerful.
Pschyeah.

 

[Sorrow]

I don't mean that all the weapons should be "real." I just think that ther are a few notable weapons today that should be kept. Fallout 2 had the best balance in fake and "real" weapons, but could have had a few more big guns.

No.
I liked F2 weapons until I've discovered that they really exist.
Real world weapons don't fit Fallout universe (excluding extremaly limited amounts of WWII weapons) due to the divergence.
Also, Fallout's fictional weapons were more Fallout-like.

Fallout could use some new generic weapons inspired by new/experimental weapons of 50s like GPMGs, bullpup assault rifles, project SALVO and SPIW weapons (flechette rifles, multibarreled rifles, duplex and triplex ammo, etc.).

 

[IAN_SUCKS]

Why the hell would any world war 2 era weapons? they would be way the hell to old and falling apart (more so than modern weapons)

Play the awaken mod for fallout tactics, they did the weapons right (albeit with a lack in variety) The next fallout should play a lot like awaken only a little easier.

Why does everyone hate the desert eagle? It is extremely powerful and production has moved stateside. The desert eagle is one of the most widely recognized magnum. Its also a very good gun. The gun is finicky as hell but still a damn fine firearm. A manageable magnum would be increadibly useful in the wasteland. Granted a magnum revolver would have less maintenance issues, you wouldn't be able to fire as many shots as quickly.

The energy weapons would be toned down, so if you wanted to tag energy weapons you wouldn't have to give up another skill.

Why not add a few advanced versions of modern weapons? The brotherhood hoardes technology and copies it. If they got their hands on an effective pre-war weapon, they would copy it and maybe even trade them for food ansd supplies. How would a beat up AK47 ruin the fallout feel? the assault rifle for the first game was an AK 112, which looks a lot like an AK 107.

Try Awaken, then you can bitch me out about making Fallout moderately realistic.

 

[Silencer]

Why the hell would any world war 2 era weapons? they would be way the hell to old and falling apart (more so than modern weapons)

Because we can safely assume that WWII had happened in Fallout Universe (Third Reich waging war is mentioned in the Intro), and frankly, that's about the latest thing we know. We don't even know how it ended exactly and when did U.S. enter it, and... the list goes on.

Hence, WWII weapons are weapons that are certainly common between our world and that of Fallout. With any later ones, we lack the certainty - although I won't say they're totally impossible.

There. That's why one could expect WWII guns there, although they'd probably be in a poor condition.

Why does everyone hate the desert eagle? It is extremely powerful and production has moved stateside. The desert eagle is one of the most widely recognized magnum.

onemorelevelofcomprehension

Re-read the previous posts, and ponder on them, grashopper. You're referring to the current state of our world. Since the history of Fallout Universe is different from ours at least from WWII up, you can't just assume same happenings had place there in regards to the DE. This diminishes the weight of your argument greatly.

Its also a very good gun. The gun is finicky as hell but still a damn fine firearm. A manageable magnum would be increadibly useful in the wasteland.

That I'm not negating, but you've got to ask yourself, "would the gun be in the Wasteland in the first place?" IMO, fat chance.

Why not add a few advanced versions of modern weapons?

Because energy weapons fit better into a retrofuture raygun-happy setting?

How would a beat up AK47 ruin the fallout feel? the assault rifle for the first game was an AK 112, which looks a lot like an AK 107.

It's a Soviet weapon, quite unlikely to be found in an anti-communist, isolationist U.S. the land of Fallout is.

The AK 112 might have been an American copy of a Soviet weapon, just like the M19 Rifle was in Wasteland. Although it might have as well been some CIA stock

Try Awaken, then you can bitch me out about making Fallout moderately realistic.

Now you kill me. I don't want real-life weapons for realism, I want fallouty weapons for immersion.

 

[Sorrow]

Play the awaken mod for fallout tactics, they did the weapons right (albeit with a lack in variety) The next fallout should play a lot like awaken only a little easier.

Die.

Why does everyone hate the desert eagle? It is extremely powerful and production has moved stateside.

Because it's the only RL modern gun in Fallout and it sticks out like a sore thumb. It can be replaced by a generic .44 pistol that was made popular by XXIst century movies.

Why not add a few advanced versions of modern weapons? The brotherhood hoardes technology and copies it.

Because modern weapons (except DE) don't exist in Fallout universe.

How would a beat up AK47 ruin the fallout feel? the assault rifle for the first game was an AK 112, which looks a lot like an AK 107.

1. AK-112 isn't a soviet gun. The name is a tribute to Wasteland's AK-97 (I wonder why they didn't call it M-97... It would save us a lot of trouble.),
2. AK-112 isn't a RL gun.

Try Awaken, then you can bitch me out about making Fallout moderately realistic.

It's funny that you're talking about realism without having the basic knowledge about the Fallout setting.

 

[Sander]

Because we can safely assume that WWII had happened in Fallout Universe (Third Reich waging war is mentioned in the Intro), and frankly, that's about the latest thing we know. We don't even know how it ended exactly and when did U.S. enter it, and... the list goes on.

Hence, WWII weapons are weapons that are certainly common between our world and that of Fallout. With any later ones, we lack the certainty - although I won't say they're totally impossible.

There. That's why one could expect WWII guns there, although they'd probably be in a poor condition.

...
That's not quite right, Silencer. There are already no World War 2 weapons in use in the current day, so in an evolved Fallout world there'd be no reason for them to be around as well. Evolved versions of those weapons, perhaps, but certainly not the weapons themselves.
Aside from that, they mostly don't fit the setting either. Note Tactics, which had a lot of WW2 weapons, but its weapons still didn't fit in.

 

[SuAside]

euhm, that's quite wrong Sander.

the 1911 .45 has changed very little, and most standard (cheap) versions are virtually equal to the old pistol. the M2 .50cal has also only evolved very little and is still extremely popular amongst military around the world. another extremely popular weapon is the M14, that nowadays is commercialised under a wide variaty of names and is still growing strong, with the best illustration being the M1A from Springfield Armory. a standard Mauser WW2 is also very popular, being a fine weapon and a standard that was used to compare other rifles against.

anyhow, the list goes on...

many of these weapons are relatively easy to craft, so it would make sense for people to go back to basics after that apocalypse.

note: i'm not saying WW2 weapons should be in a FO game at all. quite frankly i'd rather not see them at all. however, they make a lot more sense than a desert eagle for instance.

Why does everyone hate the desert eagle? It is extremely powerful and production has moved stateside. The desert eagle is one of the most widely recognized magnum. Its also a very good gun. The gun is finicky as hell but still a damn fine firearm. A manageable magnum would be increadibly useful in the wasteland. Granted a magnum revolver would have less maintenance issues, you wouldn't be able to fire as many shots as quickly.

most widly recognized magnum? don't make me laugh... S&W magnums are far more popular than any IMI DE's.

it being a "very good gun" is really up to debate: the accuracy is quite mediocre, the gun is heavy, it requires A LOT of maintenance and it is VERY picky with the ammo it can shoot with. i dont know about you, but a gun with those characteristics does not enter the "very good gun"-book for me...

as for it being faster? ever heard of double action revolvers? i dont quite see a lot of difference quite frankly.

 

[Bullseye]

There would be working generators, old nuclear power plants could be repaired (and modified to run on"junk" uranium), wind plants could be built, hell, you could even use fusion plants hidden in the vaults, If energy weapon had to be recharged instead of finding new cells they would have to rely on a smaller supply unless they found new cells which would be rare.

nuclear power plants don't run on "junk" uranium, they run only on enriched uranium (hard to make btw) there is no changing about that. As for the weapons, the idea of a micro fusion cell is better than recharging it at a power plant since the energy would be hard to preserve. Only way is to make a small nuclear reaction in a very small "box" (the micro fusion cells). This is ofcourse not possible either but it's more fun if you think about it

 

[Silencer]

modern weapons (except DE) don't exist in Fallout universe

That we don't know, although sinc nearly all weapons in Fallout were specific to that universe, (bar the Mauser and DE), it's more likely that they wouldn't exist (or at least be widespread in the U.S.) than that they would.

That's not quite right, Silencer. There are already no World War 2 weapons in use in the current day, so in an evolved Fallout world there'd be no reason for them to be around as well.

Bullshit. Just a few weeks ago two people were killed back here with a WWII weapon (from a partisan stash), so they postiviely are in use. It's just that any such weapons in Fallout world would me marginal, and likely very poorly maintained.

 

[Ratty Sr.]

...
That's not quite right, Silencer. There are already no World War 2 weapons in use in the current day

I see you aren't very familiar with arsenals of Third World militaries...

 

[IAN_SUCKS]

nuclear power plants don't run on "junk" uranium, they run only on enriched uranium (hard to make btw) there is no changing about that. P

what about nuclear breeder reactors? they use used uranium and turn it into weapons grade uranium, they aren't used very often due to fears of nuclear proliferation but I don't think that would be a problem in the fallout universe.

Adding in a few "realistic weapons" wouldn't ruin the fallout universe, it would just add a little flavor to the game. I'm not saying that all the weapons should be equivalents of modern day weapons, just a few of them. What I didn't like about fallout was the lack of variety. I liked fallout 2 because there was more than one of at least every weapon. In fallout there were 4 pistols, 1 assault rifle, 2 rifles, 3 big guns, 2 shotguns and 5 energy weapons. In Fallout 2 you got nearly double the variety by simply adding in a few real weapons.

I didn't realize the old assault rifle was an omage to wasteland. Wasteland had a different flavor to it then fallout did. In wasteland you were part of the desert rangers and you were part of a well run organization. In fallout 1&2 you are just one man up against the wasteland.

Why is everyone hating on awaken? It makes firefights rediculously dangerous compared to the original fallouts. The only times in the original where you would be in trouble were when you ran into super-mutants or enclave patrols early in the game. In awaken, a single tribal can gut you in no time flat. The game is lacking in a lot of categories and is buggy as hell but combat is fast and furious, unlike the painfully long shoot-outs in fallout 1&2.

 

[Roshambo]

Adding in a few "realistic weapons" wouldn't ruin the fallout universe, it would just add a little flavor to the game.

According to you.

And then you "validate" your opinion on the basis that since Fallout 2 added in more real-world weapons, adding in more weapons total, then it is a good thing for more real-world weapons to be added.

Those are two completely different design considerations, when one is about the amount of weapons, and is being used to validate inconsistency with the setting of the game.

It's what we call "Argument by Counter-Strike".

Don't bother to post a straw man argument again.

 

[Morpoggel]

Why is everyone hating on awaken? It makes firefights rediculously dangerous compared to the original fallouts.

And that is good because?

The only times in the original where you would be in trouble were when you ran into super-mutants or enclave patrols early in the game. In awaken, a single tribal can gut you in no time flat.

That sounds kinda lame...

The game is lacking in a lot of categories and is buggy as hell but combat is fast and furious, unlike the painfully long shoot-outs in fallout 1&2.

I love the shoot-outs in Fallout 1 and 2. You actually had to use a strategy, instead of Tictacs, where you just give your entire squad an automatic rifle, press the right buttons and voila, any enemy that walks into your line of fire is turned into a Swiss cheese omelet...

 

[Talisien]

IAN_SUCKS wrote:

Adding in a few "realistic weapons" wouldn't ruin the fallout universe, it would just add a little flavor to the game.

...

What I didn't like about fallout was the lack of variety.

...

Why is everyone hating on awaken? It makes firefights rediculously dangerous compared to the original fallouts.

...

The game is lacking in a lot of categories and is buggy as hell but combat is fast and furious, unlike the painfully long shoot-outs in fallout 1&2.

So, you're trying to say that: 1)a good game has lots of people shooting each other, 2) a large variety of guns to do it with, and 3) a game can be "buggy as hell and lacking in a lot of categories" and still be good if criteria 1 & 2 are met? If that's what you're looking for, you need to stop playing RPG's entirely and go play Quake, or Serious Sam, or something in that vein.

And, on the original point of this thread, weapons for FO3, I would like to see flash grenades in FO3, with minimal damage ability, but the ability to lower enemies hit %. I would put a few points into throwing just for them.

 

[Sorrow]

The game is lacking in a lot of categories and is buggy as hell but combat is fast and furious, unlike the painfully long shoot-outs in fallout 1&2.

It could be easily fixed by adding an opposite of Icewind Dale's "Heart of Idiocy" mode. It would be a special difficulty setting that would double the maximum damage of weapons or would have different weapon damage and critical hit tables (and no additional HP per level).

I'm playing F1/F2 with a mod that makes weapon damage higher and I prefer more deadly combat.

 

[Lord 342]

My US$0.02 on the "real-world weapons" issue is that whatever they are, they have to be selected very carefully. Some of the weapons in Fallout 2 show signs of this; for instance most of the "high-tech" slugthrowers are extant weapons that were never adopted by any modern force (Pancor Jackhammer, H&K CAWS, H&K G11 rifles), suggesting strongly an alternate timeline. Their time period may raise hairs with some people, but that is why the choices have to be careful.

Some weapons that should show are the sort that have no real reason to be any different in a fictional world; for instance what can possibly make a S&W .38 revolver significantly better at being what it is without fundamentally changing some aspect of it? Sure, a fictionalized model number and different styling; but a 6-shot pocket gun is a 6-shot pocket gun. The Colt 1911 has been around since, well, 1911, and remains popular going on 100 years. I see no reason why at least a few "modern" (to the Fallout world) specimens would not be floating around. These simple rules can be used to divine other "Real-world" arms that do not break the setting of Fallout. Most modern arms, however, do not fit. Sure the .44 Desert Eagle is easy to control (only the .50AE kicks like you'd expect it to), but don't forget, it's the product of a nation we don't even know to exist in the Fallout universe.

A strong application of common sense versus "This is my favorite gun in game X/I pack one in real life, therefor it should be in FO3" should sort this matter easily. So, to exercise an eminently appropriate metaphor, make sure your brain is loaded before you shoot your mouth off.