Bloodlust
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Which basically means that Fallout 1 = The Holy Bible,everything else = heresy!!! 
What kind of weapons do you want to see in F3?
- Thread starter Finesse
- Start date
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
i wouldnt mind seeing a couple of RL weapons (as long as they were pre 50's) - mainly i'd like 2 see some more alien blaster type weapons as they fit in so well with the 50's sci fi.
perhaps some new weapons that the brotherhood have developed - not the obvious choices though - i.e rail guns
perhaps some new weapons that the brotherhood have developed - not the obvious choices though - i.e rail guns
Kuni Hoyung
First time out of the vault
A couple things
I would like to see unique sound strings attached to each and every weapon. For instance: The AK in FOT had the same sound string as the M14, the M16, and the FN-FAL; when in reality they all sound different. An M-60 should sound different than a Bren Gun.
Ballistic weapons should jam based on a luck roll factoring in your small gun/big gun rating. Different weapons jam more or less easily than others (Ex: A Desert Eagle is much more prone to jamming than a 1911 Colt) Also, if you think about it, bullets that are a couple hundred years old might not fire, no matter how heavily preserved in grease they are. Plus, let's say... okay, there are people and places that produce 'current' ballistic rounds... they especially aren't going to be of the same quality as bullets made in a factory somewhere. They will jam.. and now that I think about it.. hey! None of my weapons ever jammed!!!
I personally think that the weapon selection was too vast in FOT, but I like the reality in weaponry that it provided. I would like to see a FO2-type weapon choice consisting of real weapons (and the good ol' Pancor JH).
I would like to see unique sound strings attached to each and every weapon. For instance: The AK in FOT had the same sound string as the M14, the M16, and the FN-FAL; when in reality they all sound different. An M-60 should sound different than a Bren Gun.
Ballistic weapons should jam based on a luck roll factoring in your small gun/big gun rating. Different weapons jam more or less easily than others (Ex: A Desert Eagle is much more prone to jamming than a 1911 Colt) Also, if you think about it, bullets that are a couple hundred years old might not fire, no matter how heavily preserved in grease they are. Plus, let's say... okay, there are people and places that produce 'current' ballistic rounds... they especially aren't going to be of the same quality as bullets made in a factory somewhere. They will jam.. and now that I think about it.. hey! None of my weapons ever jammed!!!
I personally think that the weapon selection was too vast in FOT, but I like the reality in weaponry that it provided. I would like to see a FO2-type weapon choice consisting of real weapons (and the good ol' Pancor JH).
Dresnar said:
Hear, hear. I think it would be much cooler if guns and ammo were scarce ala Road Warrior (Max was damn lucky to have a few shotgun shells, and the Humongous a few bullets for his .45). You should have to resort to cheap (but brutal) weapons like spiked baseball bats, tire irons, knives, and the like early on, crap your pants when you finally find a crossbow or lo and behold a .32 revolver, and finally hit the jackpot with an uzi or shotgun or what have you. I think firearms and ammo are too plentiful in Fallout, and though it's certainly fun to reduce your opponents into bloody chunks with a blast from your assault rifle, it's not altogether feasible that there would be such an abundance of guns and ammo littering the wasteland.
I could also do without the hi-tech stuff like plasma and laser weapons, and power armor. Keep it lo-tech and gritty. (Always did think the leather jacket looked the coolest on the Vault Dweller, despite it being cliched).
Course, I don't think many would like this too much.
Sorrow
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Remember that Fallout is a game that is set in a country where most of people had guns and ammo. Now most of those people are dead.
Hotel California
Mildly Dipped
Fallout one and two had slightly too much ammo in the begining. In FO1 you could have a pistol, 64 rounds of decent ammo within minutes, a hunting rifle with 10, a smg within 15, the list goes on. Due to an incredibly high luck score I had the alien blaster by junktown (but no ammo after 
).
I think that New Vision had the best balance. It was hard to get a gun in Kalmath - no-one dropped them - same on the farm. At best you got a one shot rifle and twenty bullets, a revolver with about the same and a crappy pipe rifle. But these all cost the best part of 400BC each, without ammo so that with the leather jacket and Sulik's freedom it took a lot of quests to build up your funds. your first good weapons were in the Den but even then they were scarce.
It should be very difficult to get a good gun early on in the game - then it feels like an accomplishment when you do!
).I think that New Vision had the best balance. It was hard to get a gun in Kalmath - no-one dropped them - same on the farm. At best you got a one shot rifle and twenty bullets, a revolver with about the same and a crappy pipe rifle. But these all cost the best part of 400BC each, without ammo so that with the leather jacket and Sulik's freedom it took a lot of quests to build up your funds. your first good weapons were in the Den but even then they were scarce.
It should be very difficult to get a good gun early on in the game - then it feels like an accomplishment when you do!
Hotel California said:
Fallout 2 was definitely even easier when it came to weapons and ammo. All you have to do from the very start is go to Klamath and then steal Sulik's leather, and then go straight to the den and steal Metzger's shotgun and shells (all too easily done with 20% steal skill and a couple reloads). Not bad starting gear at all.
And then there are the goodies to be had from random encounters. I remember one game where I bumped into a firefight between raiders and merchants immediately upon leaving Arroyo, waiting for it to end, and then picking the corpses clean -- a few uzis, lots of ammo, some stimpaks, and a bunch of lesser stuff I grabbed to sell.
A 9mm uzi on burst mode is quite deadly against the kinds of foes you face early on.
How about Davy Crocket?
Totaly useless but strangely fitting imho. Not that I would like to see it implemented as an actual weapon that a PC could lug about with him of course.
I'm more or less happy with the guns available in F1 (although I just love the FN FAL) - minus the crappy Desert Eagle. I got used to Gauss and pulse weapons from F2, so those would be nice too. Bayonets on the rifles would be a nice addition so as to give them limited melee capacity. Also, gunpowder based weapons should be prone to jamming if loaded with pre-war ammo which would be bound to misfire a lot due to its age.
Totaly useless but strangely fitting imho. Not that I would like to see it implemented as an actual weapon that a PC could lug about with him of course.
I'm more or less happy with the guns available in F1 (although I just love the FN FAL) - minus the crappy Desert Eagle. I got used to Gauss and pulse weapons from F2, so those would be nice too. Bayonets on the rifles would be a nice addition so as to give them limited melee capacity. Also, gunpowder based weapons should be prone to jamming if loaded with pre-war ammo which would be bound to misfire a lot due to its age.
The problem is, Fallout is an RPG. So using a spear for half the game until you get your first gun doesn't really work.Hotel California said:Fallout one and two had slightly too much ammo in the begining. In FO1 you could have a pistol, 64 rounds of decent ammo within minutes, a hunting rifle with 10, a smg within 15, the list goes on. Due to an incredibly high luck score I had the alien blaster by junktown (but no ammo after
I think that New Vision had the best balance. It was hard to get a gun in Kalmath - no-one dropped them - same on the farm. At best you got a one shot rifle and twenty bullets, a revolver with about the same and a crappy pipe rifle. But these all cost the best part of 400BC each, without ammo so that with the leather jacket and Sulik's freedom it took a lot of quests to build up your funds. your first good weapons were in the Den but even then they were scarce.
It should be very difficult to get a good gun early on in the game - then it feels like an accomplishment when you do!
Sorrow
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Yes. That's why guns and ammo are scarce in Fallout.Vox said:And most of the ammo was used up after the war. People looting, people defending themselves... they all need ammo.
Yes... war... war NEVER changes!
In Shady Sands only 3 people have guns.
Seth - HR + 100 .233 in guardhouse
Ian (who shouldn't count because he is a caravan guard)
Peasant woman - 10mm pistol without additional ammo
In Junktown most of civilians don't have guns and some of guards and gangers (only two Skullz gangers out of eleven have firearms) use melee weapons only.
The problem is that ammo is both scarce and expensive - 50 rounds of .223 ammo cost almost as much as a 10 mm Colt pistol, ammo is sold in tens of rounds, not in hundreds or thousands like in present times.
Most of normal people (unlike in pre-war USA) simply can't afford a gun and ammo.
Vault Dweller has a lot of ammo because he/she kills a lot of people and takes their ammo or simply finds guns and ammo in weird places. Guards, gangers and other non-adventuring armed NPCs have few ammo unless they are a part of some powerful organisation (like Hub police, BoS, etc.).
So, ammo isn't abundant on wastes.
once people get organised again, refilling bullets isnt hard (like down in LA). i was suprised by how easily ammo can be refilled using crude tools and limited resources (irl). overall, ammo wouldn't be that scarce. it would however be far less potent than modern day ammo in most cases (you can kiss your match grade ammo goodbye). most ammo would be of an easy to manufacture type, like FMJ.
however, many of the more 'technological' guns would quickly wear out due to lack of parts (and i'm not talking about energy weapons, but about conventional arms). a gun needs a great ammount of replacement parts during its lifetime. many parts could be duplicated by a (gun)smith, but the quality would often be questionable. some stuff would need less conventional repairs, like polymer parts (not just stock, grips & such, but also internal parts). a simple replacement of a searspring could wreck total havoc, due to the unreliable firing action if the part is of poor quality (leading to the gun discharging if dropped or not firing at all).
anyhow, many decent guns would've been fucked up over the years and well maintained and safe guns would be relatively hard to find, especially if their action is complicated.
on the other hand you'd see a huge increase in 'simple' guns, like double barreled shotguns, single action revolvers, lever-action rifles, bolt-action rifles, lowcost grease guns and other such guns.
handling or using an other persons gun would be a hazardous undertaking. you can never be sure what's the condition of the gun unless you open it up and give it a good rundown (given you posses the required skills and knowledge).
however, many of the more 'technological' guns would quickly wear out due to lack of parts (and i'm not talking about energy weapons, but about conventional arms). a gun needs a great ammount of replacement parts during its lifetime. many parts could be duplicated by a (gun)smith, but the quality would often be questionable. some stuff would need less conventional repairs, like polymer parts (not just stock, grips & such, but also internal parts). a simple replacement of a searspring could wreck total havoc, due to the unreliable firing action if the part is of poor quality (leading to the gun discharging if dropped or not firing at all).
anyhow, many decent guns would've been fucked up over the years and well maintained and safe guns would be relatively hard to find, especially if their action is complicated.
on the other hand you'd see a huge increase in 'simple' guns, like double barreled shotguns, single action revolvers, lever-action rifles, bolt-action rifles, lowcost grease guns and other such guns.
handling or using an other persons gun would be a hazardous undertaking. you can never be sure what's the condition of the gun unless you open it up and give it a good rundown (given you posses the required skills and knowledge).
Sorrow
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
I like this idea.
I think that it would a good reason to break the simplicity of Fallout weaponry and add more well-thought-out setting-fitting weapons...
I think that it would a good reason to break the simplicity of Fallout weaponry and add more well-thought-out setting-fitting weapons...
Hotel California
Mildly Dipped
Lumpy said:
I'm sorry, did you actually bother to read most of my post. You think that as a uncivilised tribal with 60 odd coins you stole and some spears you should be able to get a gun and some ammo in the first couple of days? And within a week you should have a good ol' rifle and snazy leather armour?
What you've said is a bit of a juxtaposition.
Lets define RPG as a game where you play as if you were that person in that specific situation - you are not powergaming nor are you solely concentrating on getting the BFG in the first 10 minutes of gameplay. In Fallout's case the first was extremely well written and thought out and so one should expect the lack of guns ammuntion is the wasteland to be a big topic. Numerous threads cover this in greats amount of detail so I won't bother but the fact remains that what value does having lots of guns so soon add? And what value does the inverse have: you're more careful with your ammo, you have to decide early on - what is better to buy with your limited cash (another issue): guns, armour, general items and medical supplys or bought information.
So thinking about Fallout and life in a wasteland in places such as Kalmath or Shady Sands, you really think it should be a simple case of just picking a gun up from some poor peasant (who also shouldn't have one) 's table who is out at the moment.
Sorrow said:
This is exactly how it should be; as a wanderer you should have treasured your 10mm Pistol and new let it out of your sight. As a vault dweller you should have believed it was your most valuble weapon. In the Vault there were only 6 guns locked away in the (guarded) store cabinet. It should have been a gun that lasted at least half and hour or more of playing time.
With the New Vision mod it was much clearer how valuble guns and ammo were. With only 20 bullets every couple of days availiable for the Wanderer's Rifle it wasn't something you wasted on rats. They were squished or poked, and only for the big ones - Keeng Rat or the Giant Molerats did i use it. Similarily with Geckos - a silver died with a couple of spear thrusts and a throw and occasionally the goldens needed shooting (in cases of low PC health).
It was the same with bandits - if all the other bandits were dead and I was fighting a melee bandit and I had a revolver what was the point of using up my precious ammo - my character was perfectly capable of killing him with a spear.
In summary there is nothing in RPG that says the player must get a better gun within the first 5 minutes and nowhere did I or anyone else ever say the "first half of the game". The New Vision mod along added an extra five or six hours until you got to the Den. Then consider that a proper (whilst not totally thorough) game should take at least a week or two of sporadic gaming. I really disliked and felt totally unimersed that by the Den I had stockpiled roughly five sellable weapons and then in the Den that increases to fifteen to twenty. It is ridiculous!
Sorrow
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Here are few sobering statistics:
Only 2 out of 24 adult people in Klamath downtown have guns and they have mere pipe rifles with 24 rounds (very small amount of ammo) which they don't use. One of them is the guy that teaches PC how to fight and the second one is Sajag, the owner of the Golden Gecko.
Only 3 out of 11 adult people in Klamath Trappertown have guns. All of them carry pipe rifles with 24 rounds which they don't use. All of them are trappers.
It's nowhere near the over one gun for one person proportions from modern USA.
It clearly points that there's guns and ammo shortage.
In Den most of people are unarmed.
Only 11 out of 45 adult people in Den Downtown carry guns.
5 of them are guards in Becky's casino.
(4 guards have 10mm pistols without any additional ammo
1 guard has a shotgun without any additional ammo)
1 of them is Smitty (owner of the Car) and he is the only person in downtown that has spare ammo (mere 24 rounds)
1 of them is a gambler with a 10mm pistol
In Lara's gang only 2 of four members have firearms - 10mm pistols without spare ammo
2 10mm pistols are in possession of thugs (Jet dealers), again no spare ammo.
I think that it shows that firearms in F2 are still a luxury and that ammo is even more scarce than in F1.
The problem is that too much guns are avaible in... shops.
It's weird that slavers (very rich people) don't buy desert eagles and SMGs in Tubby's store...
Only 2 out of 24 adult people in Klamath downtown have guns and they have mere pipe rifles with 24 rounds (very small amount of ammo) which they don't use. One of them is the guy that teaches PC how to fight and the second one is Sajag, the owner of the Golden Gecko.
Only 3 out of 11 adult people in Klamath Trappertown have guns. All of them carry pipe rifles with 24 rounds which they don't use. All of them are trappers.
It's nowhere near the over one gun for one person proportions from modern USA.
It clearly points that there's guns and ammo shortage.
In Den most of people are unarmed.
Only 11 out of 45 adult people in Den Downtown carry guns.
5 of them are guards in Becky's casino.
(4 guards have 10mm pistols without any additional ammo
1 guard has a shotgun without any additional ammo)
1 of them is Smitty (owner of the Car) and he is the only person in downtown that has spare ammo (mere 24 rounds)
1 of them is a gambler with a 10mm pistol
In Lara's gang only 2 of four members have firearms - 10mm pistols without spare ammo
2 10mm pistols are in possession of thugs (Jet dealers), again no spare ammo.
I think that it shows that firearms in F2 are still a luxury and that ammo is even more scarce than in F1.
The problem is that too much guns are avaible in... shops.
It's weird that slavers (very rich people) don't buy desert eagles and SMGs in Tubby's store...
desert eagles are very overrated guns, Sorrow. the only thing that caused its immense popularity is it's 'evil big gun' reputation it has thanks to Holywood. slavers need something practical, not a huge and expensive brick to lug around.
as for the SMG? why would a slaver want to spray their prey? sure, it would be easier to shoot up a dangerous element, but it'd only further damage the shipment due to possible collateral damage.
as for the SMG? why would a slaver want to spray their prey? sure, it would be easier to shoot up a dangerous element, but it'd only further damage the shipment due to possible collateral damage.
Sorrow
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
hmm...SuAside said:
The problem is that in Fallout, Desert Eagles are shown as a better pistol than 10mm. None of their disadventages are presented in game.
Slavers in NCR don't have any problems with using Desert Eagles.
I meant slavers that guard the Slavers Guild. They could use a bit of overwhelming firepower. Also, since they are rich and (probably) have a lot of contacts they could have few assault rifles (which would make them practically untouchable by a low level character).SuAside said:
slavers in NCR have to contend with high level chars, but more importantly also with NCR Rangers, which sport combat armor, assault rifles and miniguns...
a slaver in the Den would have no real need to defend themself. hell, nobody is stupid enough to attack them anyway. they even have 2 local gangs at their bidding. there is plenty of canonfodder to go around if there were to be trouble. (there is just one freaking lunatic that could be stupid enough to take them on and the dude refers to himself as "the chosen one", nuf said...)
a slaver in the Den would have no real need to defend themself. hell, nobody is stupid enough to attack them anyway. they even have 2 local gangs at their bidding. there is plenty of canonfodder to go around if there were to be trouble. (there is just one freaking lunatic that could be stupid enough to take them on and the dude refers to himself as "the chosen one", nuf said...)
Sorrow
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Actually, slavers in NCR wouldn't stand a chance against Rangers due to lack of said combat armor, assault rifles and miniguns.SuAside said:
On the other hand Rangers can't just go and kill them, because the law forbids them to do so.
All slaver guards (both in Den and NCR) are armed with handguns only, which makes responding to rifle-fire more difficult.
The only "sane" tactic of attacking slavers involves shooting them from long range using hunting rifles. It would take about 3 skilled characters with rifles to kill them all without giving them a chance to fight back. Taking in account that they are supposed to be rich and hated, such attack wouldn't be really unlikely.
So, I think that even if they wouldn't use assault rifles, some of the guards should have hunting rifles (slavers that "hunt" slaves already have them).
People which have their loved ones enslaved or feel that they may be next that will be enslaved, usually get pissed off.SuAside said:
Some of them may be skilled enough to try to do something about it (some of "guards" in slave runs have hunting rifles and shotguns, which means that they could outgun the Den slaver-guards).
That's why I think that they (slaver-guards) should have some real firepower, not just be untouchable, because they are supposed to be untouchable.
(I got tired of reading after about three pages so I skipped straight here, so if I say something that's already been said it's cause I didn't know it had already been said.)
What the next fallout game needs to do in terms of weapons.
A reasonable assortment of melee weapons
NO SWORDS, low tech stuff like clubs and bats and a few higher level weapons like the supersledge and powerfists. Stuff that if you have power armor gives you a moderate chance in a firefight.
Ammo, Ammo everywhere but none thats fit to pown.
Its been a while since the bombs went off, by now people are producing their own bullets (not reusing old casings with new propellent.) Problem is, most people aren't using machines so all they can make is usually just basic shotgun shells, crude rockets, and FMJ ammunition. Other ammo types would only be produced in limited numbers and the only place where a decent amount (more than a few clips) could be found was in old ammo dumps and brotherhood of steel facilities.
More "real weapons"
NOt weapons that we use now, most of those would be ruined by the time the fallout games started, besides they would have been updated and the real weapons should be replaced with near future counter parts I.E. the M16A3 would be replaced with the fictional M16A7 or an XM8. Some modern weapons could be added in, but only the choicest of todays firearms that can't really be improved upon (like a stinger missile launcher or a barret sniper rifle.)
A powerful Desert Eagle
Before you get into the whole Hollywood gun vs realistic gun debate, keep in mind that regardless of the hype, the Desert Eagle .50 AE is an extremely powerful gun. While in modern times that makes it useless for anything except hard-core plinking, in a wasteland a pistol like that would be extremely useful in a close up encounter. Deathclaw to close for that sniper rifle's one shit per turn? Put a few slugs in it. The downside to the gun would be the rarity of JHP and AP rounds for it.
More SCIFI guns
They fill an important niche in the game, the only thing that needs to be fixed is they need to be extremely dangerous if you don't know how to use them. Also, make energy cells less abundant, but rechargeable at any generator (with the necessary skill first.) One fusion cell should get you one about ten shots on the rifles, and 3 cells would give the laser chaingun enough power for a couple of bursts.
Non crappy grenades
Grenades should be plentiful (since they are relatively easy to produce) and anyone with a skill of around 40% should be able to throw a grenade with a decent amount of accuracy
If the new fallout used these ideas they would have a fun and balanced (if somewhat unrealistic) game.
What the next fallout game needs to do in terms of weapons.
A reasonable assortment of melee weapons
NO SWORDS, low tech stuff like clubs and bats and a few higher level weapons like the supersledge and powerfists. Stuff that if you have power armor gives you a moderate chance in a firefight.
Ammo, Ammo everywhere but none thats fit to pown.
Its been a while since the bombs went off, by now people are producing their own bullets (not reusing old casings with new propellent.) Problem is, most people aren't using machines so all they can make is usually just basic shotgun shells, crude rockets, and FMJ ammunition. Other ammo types would only be produced in limited numbers and the only place where a decent amount (more than a few clips) could be found was in old ammo dumps and brotherhood of steel facilities.
More "real weapons"
NOt weapons that we use now, most of those would be ruined by the time the fallout games started, besides they would have been updated and the real weapons should be replaced with near future counter parts I.E. the M16A3 would be replaced with the fictional M16A7 or an XM8. Some modern weapons could be added in, but only the choicest of todays firearms that can't really be improved upon (like a stinger missile launcher or a barret sniper rifle.)
A powerful Desert Eagle
Before you get into the whole Hollywood gun vs realistic gun debate, keep in mind that regardless of the hype, the Desert Eagle .50 AE is an extremely powerful gun. While in modern times that makes it useless for anything except hard-core plinking, in a wasteland a pistol like that would be extremely useful in a close up encounter. Deathclaw to close for that sniper rifle's one shit per turn? Put a few slugs in it. The downside to the gun would be the rarity of JHP and AP rounds for it.
More SCIFI guns
They fill an important niche in the game, the only thing that needs to be fixed is they need to be extremely dangerous if you don't know how to use them. Also, make energy cells less abundant, but rechargeable at any generator (with the necessary skill first.) One fusion cell should get you one about ten shots on the rifles, and 3 cells would give the laser chaingun enough power for a couple of bursts.
Non crappy grenades
Grenades should be plentiful (since they are relatively easy to produce) and anyone with a skill of around 40% should be able to throw a grenade with a decent amount of accuracy
If the new fallout used these ideas they would have a fun and balanced (if somewhat unrealistic) game.