What the fuck happened to Fallout 4's weapons?

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by ThatZenoGuy, Nov 9, 2016.

  1. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    Ok? I don't understand why you said that last bit. I didn't say the Pre-War government didn't allow any weapons to be sold to the public. Government-approved, licensed weapons would be ok, mass-unrecorded homemade weapons would be a concern.

  2. Risewild

    Risewild Antediluvian as Feck
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    I said it because my two previous posts were about if anyone has any source that says the government was taking people's weapons. I think it was because Greed kept saying it was happening before the great war but I really do not remember any source in the lore to mention it. So since I remembered the laser weapons lore saying that civilians had their own laser pistol models that were mass produced and sold to people, it made no sense that the government let people buy laser weapons but then doesn't allow people to own weapons (again because of what Greed kept saying 2 or 3 pages ago).
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  3. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Well considering the american culture from our time line, and the fact that the US in Fallouts world was set in a situation where they had to deal with resource wars, conflcts and even invasions, I doubt the government removed their weapons. Now, I would be more interested in what the US government did with Chinese American citizens, if you remember what happend to Japanese Americans during WW2. I somehow can't believe that the Chinese in the US saw better treatment. If some of them head weapons, I am pretty sure the government took them.

    No one knows it. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. As far as I know it was never mentioned in any of the games, the Fallout Bible or any other source, so there is no real argument that speaks for or against this idea. Though I am more leaning on the side, that the government didn't took the weapons.
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  4. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    Wait a minute?

    If the pre-war government banned guns, then why is there a magazine titled "Guns and Bullets"?
    • [Like] [Like] x 4
  5. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Also if the government banned guns and confiscated them... what's stopping them confiscating more guns?

    Either way, pipe guns have no reason to exist...
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  6. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    Who said they banned guns? I only said the Patriot's Cookbook was banned and I speculated such a large number of Pre-War pipe guns would have been a concern.

    If pipe guns were purely post-war I could see more reason for such a large number of them to exist, though only if there was a specific group to manufacture them.

    They didn't.

    EDIT: Point Lookout had a detention camp as well, but I think that was geared more towards enemy personnel/suspected spies than ordinary Chinese Americans.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  7. Greed

    Greed Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Nov 4, 2016
    Just go to the Mojave Outpost and have the guy there repair it to 100 for you.
  8. DR_LaZer

    DR_LaZer Donacdum

    Jul 7, 2016
    Hey! That's a-me!

    I mean, it was kinda hard for them too make a civilized town considering that Vegas, from what I'm reading, was pretty much overrun with raiders and tribals and generally not friendly people. Hell, even someone similar to Gizmo appeared. But none of them made that big of a mark.

    BUT when House woke up at the presence of the NCR he either removed them or annexed them into his new city. The reason why there was such a BOOM in development in Vegas was from House's smart planning of using the NCR's tourism that he would get. So that gave him a lot of money to do things with. Like recovering the platinum chip. Help get his new business parters started. The works. compared to OTHER places which pretty much had absolutely no resources at all and had to get started from the ground up.

    Well..... you don't have to go after Benny. I mean, techincally you do to progress the story. But you don't have to instantly start following his trail to New Vegas on the route set for you. You could make friends with all the factions, help a buncha cities, deal with the problem at Black Mountain, fix the Deathclaw infestation, all before even thinking about Benny.

    But since he does hold the platinum chip it's inevitable you have to at least say hi so he can run to Ceasar's Legion. And after that, you never have to talk to him again. I don't particularly see what's so intro slogging about having to talk to a guy once at a point in which you determine in the entire game.

    Well, that all depends on what you've done up to that point. Yes, I will admit you could've just booked it to Vegas, said HI to Benny, then get summoned by everyone. Though, no matter how much you've done House kinda makes sense, considering that you are Courier Six and he knew Benny would betray him. So you're pretty much just a replacement.

    Well, you see the problem with the NCR in Vegas isn't that they're unable to do anything. Shit, they're probably the best choice for the Mojave objectively speaking. It's just that they're over extending to the Mojave and everything over there is bad. Back in the west they're doing just fine. But in the east they're sandwiched between House and The Legion messing them up there. And they've only just settled, relatively speaking. They're still trying to get a hold/grasp on things. It's all a buncha early stuff.

    Well.... yeah. Of course they're rapist and slavers. That's kinda the Legions whole thing. That's what their entire society is based off of, kinda. That's how a lot of them work. It's what they've been taught ever since joining The Legion. I know that too you it may seem immoral or wrong, but to them it's just life.

    I don't exactly know what you mean. They weren't "behind" a lot of stuff. At least to a silly amount. They weren't secretly behind everything, I'ven't a clue where you got that idea from. They had, like, a buncha spies everywhere, and ruined a lot of stuff on the eastern side of the Mojave. But that's about it.

    Errr.... none of his plans fell apart. OK, one fell apart. But that was because his timing for when the bombs fell was off by 20 hours. Other than that, unless you actively go against him his plans work out perfectly well. Shit, the reason why Vegas is so successful is because his plans worked!

    So, the BoS, Jacobstown, Goodsprings, NCR in general post Tandi, Boomers, Great Khans, and pretty much every faction there along with other settlements and locations, none of that matches up to "Diamond City is 100+ years old and there was a government but now there isn't and they gots trade routes and stuff" You know the NCR and Legion trade stuff too, right? I mean, the fuckin' Crimson Caravan office is in Vegas.

    But...... you understand your own characters motivation for everything in Vegas too. Because you can actually decide your own motivation for yourself. It's not set in stone why you want to go after Benny, if you want to do it at all. Better than forcibly "I MUST FIND MY SON NO MATTER WHAT" in every scenario.

    You played NV, right? The entire game funnels you towards Vegas in a set path, not just because game, but because it's the logically safest path to avoid cazadors and Deathclaws. It was more natural than "low level raiders and pipe weapons at the top, high level super mutants and regular guns at the bottom" Which it actually states that's how it is in game during a loading screen. But in NV, the area filled with Deathclaws isn't safe. The area around a cazador nest isn't safe. The area's with just geckos is! Not from top to bottom, but in actual locations that make sense.

    I mean, sure the reasoning for getting you kinda makes sense. But what they do with you doesn't. The entirety of NV is you proving yourself to all the factions. You're not made a Legate at the end of the Legion ending, you're not made a general in the NCR ending. You are made a leader in the House and Independent ending, but that's because you're House's right hand man, and YOU are the faction in the independent ending.

    And in 4? You are made sentinel at the end of the BoS line, which is just one step bellow Elder. In the Institute ending, you, the rando jackass from the surface are made Director of humanity's last hope. The Railroad.... are just kinda there. And after doing one single thing for the Minutemen you are made the General of them. Every single faction pretty much makes you the leader of them, save the Railroad because they don't exactly have a chain of command.

    I think I'm done here. I'll be here all we
    • [Like] [Like] x 7
  9. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Greed actually think the Fusion Core and trash collecting are good game mechanics and that being able to uncover secrets in the game by using your knowledge from previous runs is bad. And now I see he is actually trying his hand at the same old easily debunked arguments and vague praise for FO4. I guess this drought of Fallout 4 fanboys compared to Fo3 really made me get caught by surprise by a FO4 fanboy appearing so late into the game.
    • [Like] [Like] x 11
  10. Beeooow


    Nov 8, 2016
    New Vegas itself, from what I can tell, is a tourism hotspot on the inside with imported everything, and a boonies outside. There's sharecropper farms within the city limits.
    The wealth disparity is pretty obvious between those who live on the inside, compared to those who live on the outside. So, no, the Strip is not a traditional 'civilized town' so much as it is Las Vegas.

    As for the settlements outside the region, we've got the lovely and slowly expanding Goodsprings, Primm, No Vac, Nipton and various other neutral zones, as well as the obvious bastions and footholds of the various in-game factions. I mention Nipton in particular as, what with the war between the Legion and the NCR, stability in the region is declining. If there was originally a much more populous post-war Mojave, then it's declined since Caesar's entrance, otherwise the number of recently occupied but abandoned buildings makes no real sense beyond raiders.

    In terms of accomplishment, these various settlements pre-Legion/NCR war are definitely a step up above the singular Strip itself. There was autonomy, and a form of law and order within a lot of these communities. The region has trade via the various Caravansaries, even during the conflict.

    to say "not even a basic civilized town" is to be an absolute blowhard.

    As for 'house did everything for them too quickly', well. He only made and enforces the Strip. Most control of the outside world he has is via the Three Families, and even then he's pretty much confined to his own area, until the Courier appears and (maybe) works for him.
    • [Like] [Like] x 3
  11. Greed

    Greed Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Nov 4, 2016
    -So was both Washington D.C., and Boston, and yet they managed to do just fine. Even Tuscon was able to rise up as something of a civilized town, despite the fact that, according to Raul, Arizona was so thick with raiders it was impossible to trade two miles down the road, which is far worse then D.C. or Boston. On the other hand, Vegas had the benefit of not being hit by the bombs, having a massive amount of fresh water and farmable lands, and having basically no raiders. The idea they degenerated into tribals in the first place is absurd, but the idea that they didn't manage to build anything in Vegas, despite having everything, while literally every other major city that wasn't just leveled during the war managed something, is nonsense. And, House rebuilt the strip, and the casinos, before the NCR started arriving. They didn't get money from them to fix the places up and make them operable. They had to be operable in the first place for the NCR to spend money there.

    -Actually you kind of do since the game is full of invisible walls and monster walls, and all the major problems in places like Goodsprings, Primm, Novac, all are framed around asking where did Benny go, and them giving you some task to complete in exchange for the information. The game literally forces you to go after Benny. And the things you listed about the deathclaws and Black Mountain are, like the rest of the game, level locked to a level you can only really reach once getting past the 188 Trading Post, and at that point you have no logical reason to detour back to the starting areas to do those thing when Vegas is in your sights.

    -Nothing you do in places like Goodspring, Primm, Novac, or Boulder City make you some idealized champion worthy of being the NCR or Legion's top dog agent. You don't even have to high tail it to Vegas, even if you follow the natural story path, nothing you do is really that big of a deal to make you the first pick for diplomat.

    -And the BoS just recently arrived in The Commonwealth, and yet they are actively trying to pacify raiders, super mutants, and ferals. The NCR is just sitting around with their thumb up their ass until you come along. They can't even be bothered to investigate a town on fire because they are just so comic book cliche, pants on head retarded, inefficient at everything they do. Which is why its impossible to take the claim that they are good for the mojave impossible. They dont do anything, they largely don't even try. All because they tried to make a point with the NCR, that democratic systems have terrible problems with corruption and inefficiency slowing them down, but took it so far it moved past the realm of plausibility.

    -The Legion is behind
    --The Khans attacking the NCR
    --The Fiends attacking the NCR
    --Are making deals with the Van Graffs to attack the NCR
    --Have been secretly funding the Omerta's plan to gas the strip
    --Have been secretly working to revert the White Gloves into cannibals
    --Are behind an attempt to bomb the NCR's monorail, which is achieved though a spy they had implanted in the NCR's ranks before the NCR even knew The Legion existed.
    --They radiation bombed Searchlight
    --They massacred Nipton
    And that's just the stuff I recall off the top of my head. The Legion is behind damn near every single thing going on in the mojave that is even worth mentioning. Its this utterly ridiculous conspiracy, only achieved because they are just SO good as spying/infiltrating/convincing people that they cannot be matched, at all. Like a good mustache twirling villain is.

    -A list of how House has shot his whole plan in the foot
    --Despite waking up from his coma years before Shady Sands was even founded, he did nothing to try to organize the people around Vegas, thus ruining literally over a century's worth of buildup he could have had. Hell, House could have BEEN the NCR instead of needing to leech off them.
    --Then, when he finally does decide to do something, its at the very last minute possible, forcing him to rush his defenses to hold back an oncoming army. Which only weakened his overall position in his dealings with the NCR. Something that could have been avoided had he done something in the 100+ years he was just sitting around with his thumb up his ass.
    --Then, when he does actually make his city, he throws everyone who wouldn't immediately play ball into ruinous slums around his city, making everyone hate him, and making his already weak hold on the city even weaker, since even the people in Vegas hate him. This could have all been aovided had he done the logical thing, and elevated the first tribes who stepped forward into the three families position, but also worked to help everyone else in the city to not have to live in such shitty conditions. Even the real world Vegas has a small armies worth of average Joes to keep it running.
    --Then, when it comes to running his city, he takes the worst, most hands off approach possible. Which only causes the Omertas, Whie Gloves, and Chairmen to scheme behind his back, because no one likes being ruled by someone who apparently couldn't give less of a shit about you. This is something any businessman could tell you would happen if you took that approach.
    --Then, when it comes to his platinum chip, he idiotically sends one of his own, easily identifiable, and trackable, robots, to make a contract with the Mojave Express, and places an incredibly suspicious order to several seemingly random items, which only makes finding the plat chip increadibly easy if you knew what to look for.
    --And, because of all this, at the start of New Vegas, House is in a city where everyone hates him, his own chosen Three Families have betrayed him, his own handpicked successor Benny has betrayed him as well, and stolen his mcguffin, and he is facing down two armies he has no chance of beating without the literal deus ex machina random event hat allowed The Courier to survive being shot in the head, and possibly make it to Vegas to work with him. Something that's not even guaranteed The Courier would do.
    House is a grade A idiot, and nothing he has done makes sense, and has, in fact, been entirely defeatist to his whole plan. There is no reason for you to want to help him given his obvious inability to do anything right.

    -Everything you listed, with he exception of the Boomers, comes from the NCR, and only proves my point. The Mojave has no history of its own, it just has a bunch of people from the NCR who showed up in the last 7 years. Even towns like Goodsprings were made by NCR citizens being given land grants.

    -Except even Sawyer has stated that the Courier has little to no reason to go after Benny, and that they should have let you leave the region via the mojave outpost. The game's own lead writer has self admitted there is no reason for The Courier to go after Benny.

    -But the problem is that those areas with deathclaws, such as at Quarry junction, are very obviously placed to serve as a barrier to prevent you from just going to Vegas. Which makes it feel unnatural. Places like the Deathclaw Promituary on the side of the map, or that Dead Wind Cavern, THOSE are natural placements of deathclaws. the monster wall of Deathclaws and stuff just north of Goodsprings/Quarry junction is just fake feeling because of how obviously it was just placed there to prevent you from reaching Vegas.

    As for Fallout 4, it makes sense the stronger stuff would be at the bottom of the map, because the bottom of the map is the Glowing Sea, and a swamp, the two places with the least amount of human habitation, and thus, the most wild places in The Commonwealth, where the larger/stronger creatures would logically be.

    -Nothing you said about the factions not making you a Legate, or General, has anything to do with what I was talking about. At all. You aren't proving yourself to the factions as you do the main quest, you are doing the main quest because you already, somehow, proved yourself to them, which is why they are giving you these major tasks. The point was that you don't really do anything, even by following the main quest line, to be considered worthy of being given that honor.

    On the other hand, in Fallout 4, you prove your worth just to get in, and get higher ranks because you prove yourself over the course of several major and important missions for those factions.

    -I already did explain it
    The difference between New Vegas and Fallout 4 is that in New Vegas
    -The NCR are just terrible at everything, period, and can't manage to put on their own pants without falling over and needing your help.
    -The Legion are nothing but unrepentant rapists/salvers.
    -House is just a jackass whose every action since the war has been self defeating.
    -Yes Man is just holding the Mojave hostage with robots.

    While in Fallout 4
    -The BoS are bigoted assholes. But they actually get shit done, and actually make the wasteland a better place, even without your help.
    -The Institute has done a lot of terrible stuff(supposedly), but once you reach them you see they have accomplished a lot, that most of the terrible things they are supposedly responsible are not their fault, and that they actually have some sympathy for the people of the surface.
    -The Railroad are terrorists, willing to do a lot of shady shit to achieve their goals, but their goals serve a noble purpose of trying to free people from slavery. And they have managed to do so while fighting against the most technologically advanced faction on the East Coast for 20+ years.
    -The Minutemen, while lacking organized leadership, and prone to internal squabbles, are a coalition of people, working for the betterment of everyone. And had lasted over a century, and gotten a lot of stuff done, before collapsing.

    Fallout 4 strikes a far better medium between factions having problems, but also being able to do stuff. The factions in New Vegas are just unable to do anything(NCR), unrepentant evil(Legion), stupid(House), or dictator(Yes Man). New Vegas's faction are just so lopsided it hard to see them as beliveable things. They are almost so one sided that they come off as caricatures of the thing they are supposed to be.
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
  12. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    Not gonna bother getting into another discussion after the previous headcanon-filled rants and tremendous amounts of petty nitpicking of New Vegas to make 4 look good from Greed. The level of denial. defensiveness and willful ignorance from Greed is rather pitiful if I'm to be honest.
  13. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    The NCR and the Khans were enemies long before the Legion arrived. All the Legion is trying to do by the time of NV is convince the Khans to join the Legion.

    The Legion benefits from the Fiends (and provides info from time to time) but they didn't form them or tell them "Go attack the NCR!"

    Yeah and look how well that turns out for them.

    Gas the Strip? No they've been stockpiling a shit load of weapons not gas.

    Mortimer wasn't working with the Legion.

    Debatable that the NCR didn't know the Legion existed before the war between them.

    The Legion are trying to take over the Mojave, Vegas specifically. You shouldn't be surprised that they're behind some of the events.

    Yes, Fallout 4's faction are clearly better. Much better written, better presented and nothing ridiculous about them. Ad victorium!
    • [Like] [Like] x 5
  14. Greed

    Greed Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Nov 4, 2016
    I never said they weren't enemies beforehand. I said the Legion was directing them into attacking the NCR now.

    It would have turned out pretty well for them had the PC not stopped it.

    Did you miss the part where Clanden was making a chlorine gas bomb for the Omertas?

    I never said Mrotier was working for the Legion, thats what the "secret" part of my post was about.

    Courier: It was Curtis. He's in the Legion. I can prove he tried to blow up the monorail.
    Hsu: Curtis? He's been in the NCR long before our conflict with the Legion. There's just no way...

    Being behind some of the event was never problem, the problem, as stated, was behind they were behind every other thing.

    I never made any claim of the sort. Why the kneejerk reaction?
  15. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    You said they were behind the Khans and Fiends attacking the NCR, they weren't. They assisted them, they didn't start it.

    The Van Graffs pretty much had it covered to start with, the PC is only there for the ride.

    I honestly don't recall Clanden and a gas bomb, so I'll give you that. You did say gas the Strip though as if that was the only objective.

    You said "The Legion is behind . . . --Have been secretly working to revert the White Gloves into cannibals". Please source this as I have no recollection of this.

    You may have a point about Curtis.

    It's not a kneejerk reaction. No need to take it as such, I just intepret you in a certain way given your post history. No offense.
  16. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    @Greed, I find it weird that you consider Fallout 4 a true fallout game when there's actually quite a lot of difference between Fallout 4 and Fallout 1. Hell, if you compare the worlds, style and aims they're really quite different.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  17. Greed

    Greed Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Nov 4, 2016
    Its part of the deal they made with the Legion. The Khans fight the NCR for the Legion, and, in return, they supposedly(though its bullshit) will get all the lands west of New Vegas.
    Karl: In exchange for great Caesar's promise of all the lands west of New Vegas, the Khans have agreed to fight alongside the Legion when the time comes.

    It's also why, immediately after convincing Papa Khan to break off his deal with the Legion, he asks where his tribe can find glory now. He doesn't just go "whelp, back to fighting the NCR!". He was only fighting the NCR during the events of the game because it was part of the deal. In fact, you actually have to convince him to attack the NCR at Hoover Dam at that point, by telling him he has no future.
    Courier: I've come to ask the Great Khans to break their alliance with Caesar's Legion.
    Papa Khan: Hmm. I have heard some things from my most trusted Khans that makes me wonder whether this alliance is a good idea after all. But I want to leave a legacy of greatness when I die. My tribe deserves better than this, cowering in a canyon and living on scraps.Tell me then, if I don't join with Caesar's Legion, where will I find my tribe's lost glory?
    Courier: What great legacy do the Great Khans have? Your tribe is nothing but ghosts and martyrs.
    Papa Khan: I should have you torn apart for speaking like that - but maybe you're right. The glory of the past is an empty dream. If the Khans are to be immortal, we must make our own destiny. We won't fight for Caesar, but when he strikes, we will ride out one last time."
    I think we may have lost the original point here. The PC being involved in the deal was never my point. The point was the Legion making a deal with the Van Graffs was one of the many things they were doing in this overly large conspiracy of them behind behind everything.
    I didn't feel like it was needed to spell out the whole plan. I assumed everyone here knew what the Omerta's plan was, and that saying "gas the strip" they would get that I meant "gas the strip so they can take it over as part of the plan"
    Its part of the MQ. Caesaer tells you he has made up this plan to revert the White Gloves into cannibals, so he can have supporters inside the Strip, and he sends you invstigate and help them revert back to that way.
    I don't like it when people try to use the
    >Say anything positive about a game
    >People respond with "SO YOU THINK ITS PERFECT!"

    No, I don't. I only thing that they did the specific thing I mentioned better.

    I heard this exact same thing in regards to Fallout 3, and yet Tim Cain, Chris Avellone, and Josh Sawyer, have given thumbs up to the game, with Tim Cain even explicitly stating that Bethesda got the lore, and setting of the game right, and did well with things like VATs and SPECIAL. And both Chris and Josh have said many positive things about Fallout 4. Including things like Chris saying the settlement thing was a great addition because of how much it fits with Fallout.

    The only people I've ever heard say Beth's games aren't true Fallout games are the very vocal minority that have been directly contradicted by the very people who helped make the old games.

    To be honest I find it more weird that a community exists that is this hellbent on trying to find ways they arne't.

    But, in some ways I am not suprised, since the Fallout community has never really been able to decide what makes a Fallout game, which is why the big split over Fallout 2 happened, and why its grown with every game since.

    The only thing the overall Fallout community seems to agree on is that Fallout:BoS is garbage.
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
  18. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    I fail to understand how the Legion's influence and exploitation of various groups in the Mojave is mustache twirlingly evil. It's not like they're just going around bribing random people while laughing at how intelligently evil they are. They're exploiting the various facets of other factions to their favor... that's not stupidly evil. Maybe I'm missing something.
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  19. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    What else can they say?
    'Oh yeah, I thought the new games weren't good and didn't get the feeling right at all.'
    Not only is it not proper, but it kills the chance of them ever working on Fallout again because you know, Bethesda owns the franchise.
  20. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    We should probably get back to the topic at hand or we'll carry on like this for the next 10 pages.