What the fuck happened to Fallout 4's weapons?

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by ThatZenoGuy, Nov 9, 2016.

  1. Greed

    Greed Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Nov 4, 2016
    Because they are just behind nearly everything.

    On an individual level, all of those things make sense, but when taken as a whole, it amounts to a massive list of things that the Legion are behind. No one force is behind that many different problems in one region. Its a level of systemic manipulation that only exists in conspiracy theories.

    Its like, in Fallout 4, wastelanders try to push this idea that The Institute is behind this ultra mega conspiracy, and that they are actively behind every ill in The Commonwealth, but when you actually get to The Institute you find out that
    -The fall of the CPG was the fault of the wastelanders, not The Institute.
    -The Broken Mask Incident was just an accident, and The Institute wasn't trying to infiltrate people with synths.
    -The destruction of University Point was just Kellogg going on a rampage.
    -Most synths found in the general populace are not part of an Institute plot, they are actually synths the Railroad hid in the general populace.
    There is a moment where they pull the curtain back, and reveal The Institute to not be this comic book evil, mustache twirling, villains who are just behind EVERYTHING, and that the things attributed to them are actually part of a large and more complex series of events.

    The Legion has no moment like this, they are just behind almost everything, have manipulated almost everyone, and are the mustache twirling villains behind most all the problems of the Mojave.

    This is a baseless argument as Tim Cain, Chris A, and Josh Sawyer, have all talked about a number of things they DIDN'T like with Fallout 3/4.

    This argument is nothing but mental gymnastics to try to make up excuses as to how the developers held so highly for making Fallout 1/2 could like something you don't.
  2. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    They aren't behind the Powder Gangers threatening goodsprings

    They aren't behind the convicts holding Primm under siege.

    They aren't behind The Deathclaws in Sloan.

    They aren't behind the Ghoul attacks in Novac.

    They aren't behind the Boomer's attacking travelers.

    Like, most towns in the game aren't currently having any problems with the Legion. Or did you mean behind all the NCR's problems?

    Because they aren't behind the NCR's conflict with The Kings

    They aren't behind the NCR-Brotherhood War

    They aren't behind the scientist getting lost in Vault 22.

    How can you say they are behind everything?, Barely any of the problems undergone by the Mojave Wasteland relate in any way to The Legion.
    • [Like] [Like] x 8
  3. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016

    Someone clearly has not played New Vegas or has purposefully ignored every point raised in-game & by people involved in development to craft their own narrative to suit their agenda.

    In fact, many of the problems in the region are like what you claim Fallout 4 is: it is the fault of the people and circumstances around, not some mustache twirling villain.
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  4. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Actually you do have a point. I can't expect them to hate the game (I learned to enjoy Fallout 3) but it's theme. Here's a quote by Tim Cain from an interview posted on the NMA.
    'If I were to compare the two games, I would say that Fallout New Vegas felt like it captured the humor and style of the Fallout universe better than Fallout 3', though he comments on how he likes the set pieces of Fallout 3 (I do agree with him, as unrealistic or ridiculous they are, they do add to the world) and VATS. Though to be honest, I don't actually worship the developers (I only really like the original developers seeing as I see the first game as the true Fallout). It's just any sane person can look at Fallout 1 and then look at Fallout 3/4/NV and see the differences. For example, the whole 50's theme has only one place in Fallout 1... the introduction.
    • [Like] [Like] x 4
  5. Beeooow


    Nov 8, 2016
    How to begin....Well, in order I suppose.

    House doesn't give a fuck about individual people aside from wanting to advance humanity via his genius. If how his securitrons keep people out, how he refuses to help out Freeside, how goal-oriented and business-like he is about his plans doesn't get that through to you, you might have taken his propaganda at face value. His plans rely on cementing his power.

    He also doesn't so much leech off the NCR so much as they have an uncomfortable alliance that both sides plan to break. I'm actually not sure how he supposedly leeches off the NCR aside from control of the Dam, though I'll admit I've not the best memory. Proof would be nice, as always.

    Next, his defense rush. He starts with nothing, retakes NV and uses and sets up the Three Families as his equivalent of mercenaries for the Strip, providing luxury and power. They are in no way necessarily loyal to him, which is why he primarily uses Securitrons for his main defense force. After all, robots are loyal to him, right? but his army is underground, and he needs the key to it. They key is all the way over in Sunnyvale, which takes ages, and hundreds of thousands of caps worth of bargaining to get someone to find, collect, and send back to him. He planned on having it used to get said robo army, which would give him a ton of power. Boosh.

    Again, it takes ages for people to find the thing for him.

    As for "everyone hates him". "Everyone" hates "everyone" in the game in terms of ambition, you realize? Lots of tension between groups for power. Obviously the Three Families are indebted to him, but obviously some like Benny are a bit too ambitious. The NCR wants him out of the way because he's a wild card, the Legion is just the Legion, and yes, Freeside and those not welcome to the Strip hate him for being a rich fuck who won't let them in. But wait, House doesn't give a fuck.

    'Hands off approach to running city' Well. The Three families get free reign, and it's worked out so far. White gloves might be killing people, Omertas might be killing people, but its not like they're scheming AGAINST him. Except for Benny. You forget that house is also egotistical in that he appears to severely underestimate others intellects and capabilities.

    As for his platinum chip run being discovered and intercepted: Benny had someone very tech savy (read follower of the apocalypse) hack a Securitron for him, and through that newly dubbed Yes Man learned all of his secrets.
    Having his Securitrons be so easily hacked could be seen as his major mistake. This point I will give you.
    ...Though you didn't say anything like that at all, so I take it back.
    But yes, once you know what you're looking for it becomes obvious, but that's kinda why it took having a securitron hacked to make Benny even know about it.

    "Handpicked successor Benny" Now THAT I want a source on.

    If you were to say that House was screwed without the Courier's survival, and possible compliance, I'd agree with you.

    But saying that he's an idiot because his plans were ruined by an unforeseen rogue element is kinda over the top.
    He's overly confident, a definite yes. "Complete Grade-A Moron" ...Well. You clearly don't seem to understand just how well things were going for House prior.
    • [Like] [Like] x 6
  6. DR_LaZer

    DR_LaZer Donacdum

    Jul 7, 2016
    What is it with you and your hatred of tribals? Why is the idea of a society of people devolving into tribals so unthinkable too you? Also, that's kinda what happened though. It was just a buncha raiders and tribals hanging around in Vegas without much happening. Things OUTSIDE of Vegas happened and was built. But Vegas remained untouched by civil hands until the NCR first started popping up. Oh, and also there was something about a lot of rioting happening after the bombs fell. Seems like civilization kinda feel apart.

    And, that's kinda wrong. House never REBUILT the strip, just refurbished it. Cleaned the place up. Got the casino's running. Simple stuff at the start. Then some money came in. Things got better. Each places got their own identities. ETC ETC. And technically the NCR did pop up before house started to rebuild New Vegas. But it was just some scouts. Then House got together the Three family's to help make a treaty with the NCR. Then House opened up shop for them to gamble. He didn't need to make houses, or really make a community.

    But again, a lot of what happened pre New Vegas is very unknown to many. For all we know there COULD have been a civilization of people there, that were then crushed by raiders or something. But that's just speculation.

    Nnnooooo, that is entirely wrong. You never have to ask about Benny once in the entire game. Just don't hit the "Do you know anything about the man in the checkered suit who shot me?" speech option and you're golden. In Goodsprings you just talk to Sally, then ask Trudy about the Powder Gangers and the rest of the quest goes on. In Novac you just ask about the ciminal problem then you go to get a new Sheriff ETC ETC. You never have to talk about Benny once in the entire game. Just because the option is there doesn't mean you have to click it.

    And again, they are not level locked at all. You don't need to be a certain level to get through Black Mountain. It's certainly easier if you do them at a later level, but so is everything else. There is an intended path for you to take, but you can still do whatever you want. But that doesn't mean you will succeed in doing what you want to do. In the Classic Fallout you can head for the Military Base right from the start. You'll die because you're under equipped, but it never tells you " You must be this level too get into the base!"

    And in my case, those invisible walls are just stopping me from jumping over mountains instead of walking on the path of some kind. So long as it isn't a mountain there's not a lot of invisible walls that I know of.

    It's not the one thing that you do, it's the multiple things you can do. Like fixing the Helios Solar Panels, or using the Helios laser to wipe out an entire NCR troop. Or helping The Legion spread word of their doings to demoralize them even further, or bringing order to the Primm and taking out the Powder Gangers. Or killing entire NCR encampments. Shit, I remember Caesar specifically always taking note of everything noteworthy I do when I first meet him. And the general thing of "Rising from the grave and hunting down the man who shot me" is also something noteworthy.

    All of this adds up to the point where you show that you're the kind of person who gets stuff done.

    And let's take The Legion questline for example, since I know that one the best. First thing you do is confront Benny. Then he runs off to Fortifacation Hill and you meet Caesar. He then gives you a test. To go down into the Bunker and destroy all the Securitrons in it. After that you've proven yourself worthy of something bigger. Since it's kinda known that you're in it with Mr. House in some way he sends you, the only person able to, to go and kill Mr. House. After doing this, you've pretty much proven yourself loyal to the Legion. And each faction, save independent, follows a similar concept.

    But, this isn't even the full force of the NCR. the game makes a point of how little there is in the Mojave. It's not like the NCR is diverting every person they can into the Mojave. If the NCR put full force power into it, you bet your ass things will get done at a rapid pace. You have to remember, a lot of this is all new, and unlike the BoS who are just a militaristic group of jerk offs who're only there to kill and collect, the NCR is there to settle. They gotta fix everything there. Build railways, set up safe trade routes back home, start up farms.

    All while having to deal with Mr. House and The Legion constantly harassing them and demoralizing them. It's not even democratic problems, it's just resource problems. Back home the NCR are doing great, but in the Mojave it's still new. It's still growing. And they still have the full force of a smart army right at their door step. And one of the reasons The Legion is fucking them over so much is that The Legion IS throwing everything they've got into Hoover Dam. Caesar is sending his entire Legion against the NCR and House. Yet, this sliver of what the NCR truly is still holds out, barely managing.

    It's almost like The Legion is a major player in the Mojave and are actively attempting to take over everything. Weird how that is, innit? The other giant faction going against the first giant faction actively do things to each other. Strange! And, it's kinda easy to convince people that you can't be matched when up to that point you kinda can't. Especially when you constantly massacre tons and tons of NCR troops. A lot of this stuff is simple Art of War stuff. Demoralization, divide and conquer, spread your enemy thin, ETC.

    Boy you need to learn how to hit Enter a few extra times. Anyway....

    First of all, what would've house even DONE in those early years? He runs a buncha casinos. How do you run a casino when there's no one to use them?! Like, seriously. In the first years of the Strip, the point of it all is to make money! What was he going to do with a buncha raiders and tribals?! Tribals don't have a valid form of currency!

    Second of all, how is that his plan failing?! He got what he wanted, the Strip has its power and he's in a position of power! Mission successful!

    Thirdly, why work with people who don't want to work with you? The others didn't agree to his terms so he kicked them out. A lot of them were just unreasonable savages with the only ones to've maybe still helped him were the Kings. Other than that, the rest were just savages who weren't going to help him! Don't work with people who don't work with you!

    And House does not have a weak hold on the city. He has a strong one to everyone but the major factions. And The Legion won't touch NV until Hoover Dam is taken, and the NCR made a deal with House. I don't see what a buncha tribals and raiders can do against an army of securitrons.

    Fourthly, The only scheming the White Gloves do is eating people. But even then, they've mostly stopped that until you make them do it. The only Chairmen scheming against Mr. House was Benny. Which I'm fairly sure House knew about. Other than that they're perfectly fine with House leading. Shit, from what I've read they'd prefer House over The Legion and NCR. The only one of the three familys that go against House actively is the Omertas. But they'd do that regardless of who's in charge or how they did business. Even if House opened up the Strip to everyone The Omertas would still be scheming because that's what they do.

    Fifthly, the only reason why Benny knew about The Platinum Chip in the first place is because he stole and reprogrammed a securitron to hack into Mr. Houses database to tell him about the chip and the six decoys. Which is also the only reason why Benny caught up to Courier Six. If it weren't for Yes Man Mr House would've gotten the Chip no sweat.

    Finally, everyone doesn't HATE House. Hell, The Three family's don't hate him. Two of them just want power and the other just wants to eat people. And Mr. Houses plan would've worked perfectly had Benny not hacked into Mr. Houses entire database with a stolen securitron that was reprogrammed by someone. But Mr. House never knew about that. If he did he would've done something about it.

    Edit: And as a side not that I don't think was mentioned, House even suspects the Omerta's to be scheming against him! He's so good he predicts them trying to doublecross him! Go House!

    Honestly, I don't see why any of this isn't a reason for you not to trust him. Every one of his failings happen because of something he didn't know about, and if he did he would've fixed it. If he knew the bombs would've gone off 20 hours earlier Vegas wouldn't've been touched at all. And if he knew about it Benny would be dead, not you. And that's pretty much it.

    The Khans, the Fiends, The Tribal Chairmen, The Slitherkin, The Tribal White Gloves Society, think Jacobs town, Also, I can not find a source for Goodsprings being founded by NCR people. Nor can I do the same for Novac, Primm, and Nipton. They all seemed to be their own thing. Seems like a fair number to me.

    Well, for one this game gives you the freedom to make your own reason to go after Benny. But if that don't work for you then here's a solid reason. Revenge. I know that when I first played the game I took the quickest route to New Vegas to give him a piece of my mind. I don't see how revenge isn't a good reason. Like, seriously. Who wouldn't want to instantly go after Benny to shot him back in the head!? Why is it that so many people always want to not do that to Benny. It makes no sense to me.

    But if you don't like revenge, then how about going to get your package back to deliver it? He stole it, why not go back and get it to finish your job? I'm just saying, that saying there's little to no reason for the Courier to go after Benny seems kinda dumb to me.

    Also, gonna need a bit of a source for that apparent self admittance.

    But Quarry Junction has the infestation of death claws. That's it. Just don't go through Quarry Junction. Just head to the Powder Gangers facility, through hidden Vally, past the front of Black Mountain, and you're safe! Just don't walk through Quarry Junction! Why is this so hard for you people!? It's not like there's a literal wall, it's just that the game heavily encourages you to go around it all and not straight towards it. But if you don't want to, then just go minorly around Quarry Junction! I did that with my pacifist no killing character going straight for Vegas!

    UGH! I explained this too you! Legion as example! First they let you in Because you're Courier Six and connected with Benny and House. Then you prove yourself by doing a thing! In the Legions case blowing up the Bunker. Then you kill Mr. House himself effectively neutering Vegas's defense systems. Then later on in the Legion questline you kill the NCR President, and then you save Caesar's life! If that's not proving yourself too them, then I don't know what is! And you do similar things for each faction. That's how you prove yourself too them!

    Home stretch baby!

    The NCR is a stretched out, barely holding on faction that even with its limited resources and power still manage to keep a good foothold in the Mojave. And even if they loose in the Mojave, they still have the entire west coast to fall back on.

    Caesar kinda explains it best himself:

    Mr. House is a genius planner who's only downfall is variables out of his knowledge. Which is proven to the point of his only few downfalls being the off timing of the bombs and Benny gaining a backdoor to his database.

    And you do as you do with Vegas.

    Wheras the BoS is a self interested, genocidal military bent on killing all that isn't human. Without even helping the rest of The Commonwealth in any other meaningful way.

    Same deal with The Institute. They're a self interested, uncaring faction of jackasses who say they care about humanity, yet they kidnap people from the surface and turn them into super mutants by the hundreds, only to throw them back on the surface to wreak havoc. All while claiming to care about humanity and wanting to do no harm to the surface. And doing everything else in their power to make sure life doesn't reform at all on the surface. I think that the all right arrow options for The Institutes speech is quite fitting.

    While the Railroad is just there, also not interested in helping the commonwealth in any meaningful way aside from removing The Institute and freeing the synths.

    And the Minutemen is an incompetent faction of people who are willing to let any random stranger that saves them once become their leader. A dying breed. While they're possibly the only faction intending to HELP The Commonwealth, they have no chance out in the wastes, and without a writing cop out would be dead by the next game.

    Vegas is filled with factions all interested in rebuilding in their own certain way, while The Commonwealth is cluttered with unhelpful factions who won't help society at all. All of them not thinking in the grand scheme of things. Only in the now.

    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
    • [Like] [Like] x 6
  7. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    I just realized why I love Caesar so much. I'm a massive fan of my home-brew communism, State Socialism where everyone is owned, lives and works for the State but nothing more.
  8. Beeooow


    Nov 8, 2016
    To go off Lazer's 'why chase benny?' tangent, if you ignore the entire Benny questline, you'll find that you can still get in with various factions and do stuff because you can. Maybe Check out the strip, now that you've been revived. Take a wasteland vacation. Maybe whatever. After all, you'll eventually either hit a quest hook that leads to needing to confront benny in some form, or beat the rest of the game.
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  9. Crossfire

    Crossfire Banned

    Jun 14, 2016
    It is a testament to this website's predilection for constant derailment that despite coming here for a discussion about "what the fuck happened to Fallout 4's weapons", what I find is that you've all been arguing about Mojave politics since at least page 4, and the best part is, I'm not even surprised.
  10. Zerginfestor

    Zerginfestor dear god, the scrapping

    Apr 18, 2015
    people biting Greed's weak bait is sad. Anyhow, weapon design overall: They all look like shit. The left hand bolt on a right-handed user looks absolutely horrific, the reloading animation for the revolvers are godawful as well as the firing animation as well as defying all laws of physics. Flamer in general looks bleh (the color is nice, the weapon design and the modification design choices are fucking awful, and not even well thought out) Assault Rifle is just EESH overall, and the pipe weapons are forgettable. This just leaves you with the Plasma weapons and Laser weapons, and honestly, the Gatling Laser Spinning mechanic looks stupid, Institute weapons are bad in design choice and in gameplay standards. Plasma is alright, though plasma sniper rifle needs to die in a fire. Too bad gameplay wise, Plasma is the worst fucking weapon to use.

    all in all: the reason there's no satisfaction in the weapons is generally how hyped up the weapon modification system was (though for fucks sakes, how can people really bite the bait when they shown a baseball bat and several other modifications for weapons, and then thought "OH MY I CAN MAKE THOUSANDS OF DIFFERENT WEAPONS!" When in reality, you're just stuck with a handful in each weapon type. Congratulations) and how gameplay wise, there is no incentive to go Ballistic. Hell, there's no fucking incentive to go Flamer, which is technically the most powerful weapon in the game and why not? Because flamer fuel is actually extremely rare in this game, you can only find it on Mr.handies or buy it by a pathetic 200 amount. Your best bet is to just grab the Gatling Laser and hurrrp a durrr like the rest of the gits on youtube, since Laser Weaponry is the best in the entire game, with the only trouble you'll find is in Far Harbor, where one of the angler types has a 200+ Energy Resistance...big fucking deal. Meanwhile there's a Fog Crawler type with over 4000 DR, which makes ANY ballistic weapon a fucking joke.

    The game really does nudge you to just stay with the pew pews and even worse than that, it's basically telling you to no even bother with the other modifications. Automatic has DPS, but the Laser Rifle with an "improved long barrel hue" can dish out the pain at the near same level of DPS, but with more accuracy and less ridiculous recoil. I really don't see a point in grabbing any other barrel besides Sniper if you REALLY feel like waiting for 5 seconds to get a charge is totally fucking worth it.
    • [Like] [Like] x 4
  11. Risewild

    Risewild Antediluvian as Feck
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    Greed said the government took people's guns for some reason. And that was why I asked about sources for that in my posts. :falloutonline:
  12. Crossfire

    Crossfire Banned

    Jun 14, 2016
    I actually liked the pistol designs but I remember thinking everything else looks fairly shit. The pipe weapon models themselves look okay but that disgusting rust colour just completely puts me off. And the "assault rifles"... god, don't get me started. Then there's the complete redesign of the power fist which, I feel, is the most egregious redesign of any of the other weapons. Also, the complete absence of a classic pump-action shotgun is glaring.
    That's retarded. And what did they do with them after seizing them? Because there's guns literally everywhere in Fallout.
  13. Zerginfestor

    Zerginfestor dear god, the scrapping

    Apr 18, 2015
    The Power Fist design...just overall, makes no fucking sense. The older models actually felt realistic as a weapon that dealt powerful damage in a concentrated area, while also having the ability to operate on terminals with them on/dual wielded. To be honest as well, I preferred the older models in 1 and 2, seems like it uses energy cells to release powerful energy when the fists made contact on a target, which sounded really cool, like the Force Glove/Pushy in NV.
  14. Risewild

    Risewild Antediluvian as Feck
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    Yeah, one of the cool things about the melee and unarmed weapons (Power Fist, Cattle Prod, etc) in the first games was that it used ammo. But in Fallout 3 for some reason melee and unarmed weapons that make sense need ammo (Power Fist, Shishkebab, etc) just work forever without any ammo. One of the things I would have liked them to have changed in Fallout New Vegas.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  15. Crossfire

    Crossfire Banned

    Jun 14, 2016
    I could be mistaken but I remember reading something somewhere about that being on their list of things to add but, like so much, it got scrapped when they ran out of time. I've tried to mod it in to no avail. I think it's an engine issue.
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
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  16. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    These pipe weapons are garbage and their accuracy and DPS is garbage too, are you kidding bethesda? For 200 years no one ever came up with something like M1895 Nagant? Nope, just one point to Fallout 4 is non canon.
    • [Like] [Like] x 5
  17. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    Curiously they all use .38 special too.

    I don't know why they'd use such a round, when .22 and 9mm would be grossly more common.

    At least NV got the .38 special rounds correct, in that they are weaker versions of the .357 cartridge, commonly used on revolvers.
  18. aenemic

    aenemic Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Jun 4, 2008
    Even worse, you constantly loot pipe weapons from pre-war locations.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  19. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    And they all work flawlessly, and share the exact same basic design.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  20. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    The Powerfist in FO4 just looks like absolute shit, it looks like if was made out of Legos and melee is completely busted in FO4 so powerfists are not only ugly but terrible too.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1