When/ How Did MZ Imply Aliens Started the Great War?

X

X12

It Wandered In From the Wastes
I just dont get it, i played through it and have not seen one, ONE, shred of evidence to suggest aliens started the Great War (aka the ultimate shooting of the worlds foot). Just because Elliot had some crackpot theories does NOT make them true. Bethesda knows aliens did not start the Great War. They arent gonna change canon....in fact, they never changed canon. They just used it poorly. The "knights in shining armor" Brotherhood are but a small amount of our favorite xenophobic tech hoarders, and the Outcasts show us a glimpse at the Western Brotherhood. It was inevitable at least one sect of the Brotherhood was gonna "go native" and start helping the Wasteland. The Super Mutants look different in Fallout 3 because they are using a different type of FEV (Force Evolutionary is a TYPE of virus, not the name of it), heck, with Harold (who is an FEV mutant, not a ghoul) we know even the same type of FEV can have different results sometimes. And as for the Enclave armor being weaker than the T-51b, thats just gameplay/ story segregation, they wanted the rare T-51b to be the most powerful, because its rare, it will encourage people to find it, no one wants to find a weaker unique armor. In story, i bet the Adv. Mark III and Tesla Armor would outshine the T-51b, and the Hellfire would be....godly.

All in all, the only thing MZ implies is that aliens exist. That's it, they exist, and they been around for a really long time. Also if you are complaining about MZ because it has aliens.....the title says MOTHER SHIP ZETA! What did you THINK it would be about? Your own fault for buying it.
 
If I remember correctly, an audio log (and considering getting them all is an achievement, you SHOULDN'T miss this) depicts soldiers being mind-controlled by the aliens to launch missiles against their will.

There's your answer. I'd address the totality of your post more thoroughly, but you spouted such gibberish as "Bethesda ... never changed canon" so... myah, lost cause. No point.
 
SnapSlav said:
If I remember correctly, an audio log (and considering getting them all is an achievement, you SHOULDN'T miss this) depicts soldiers being mind-controlled by the aliens to launch missiles against their will.

There's your answer. I'd address the totality of your post more thoroughly, but you spouted such gibberish as "Bethesda ... never changed canon" so... myah, lost cause. No point.
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I dont really care about achievements, I dont TRY to get them. Anyway, all in all I think Bethesda just made MZ to be a joke, aka non-canon. It, unlike Fallout 3, was not referenced in New Vegas.

Ok, maybe i missed the parts where Bethesda changed canon. Please explain. I really am sick of people saying "lost cause" and not bothering to correct when one is wrong. I really hate that condescending attitude.
 
zegh8578 said:
X12 said:
They arent gonna change canon....in fact, they never changed canon.
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X12 said:
I think Bethesda just made MZ to be a joke, aka non-canon.
Ok, maybe i missed the parts where Bethesda changed canon.
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That was quick.
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I was gonna put that in my original post. and since they meant it to be non-canon, they didnt change canon. Anyway, i wish people would just tell me how it changed canon. Why is everyone so difficult?
 
X12 said:
I really am sick of people saying "lost cause" and not bothering to correct when one is wrong. I really hate that condescending attitude.
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Well maybe you should sympathize, then, that many of us are tired of TRYING to correct those when they're wrong, only for them to stubbornly refuse to accept those corrections, so we just don't want to bother with that, anymore. Making STATEMENTS doesn't sound like something you can address and correct, but making assertions that include qualifiers like "I feel like" and "it seems" helps to provide the basis for skeptical doubt that will ALLOW for discussion instead of total dismissal.

You're not sitting on any high ground when just about every post you've made so far includes something like "you people always" and "people are here are" etc etc. Sweeping generalizations will get you nothing but scorn, so try to do something about that.
 
ok, could you tell me what parts of the canon Fallout 3 changed, or at least point me to a thread that does. Because as far as i can tell in the major story, i cant see any changes. Maybe im not looking hard enough, just trying to enjoy the game for what it is. btw a search button would REALLY be useful. I dont want to have to go through 30-100 pages of threads just to get to the one i want.
 
Off the top of my head, they changed the GECK from a glorified gardening kit to something more like the Genesis Device.

That's all I can think of. Fallout 3 doesn't ruin the lore but it is terribly inconsistent and under-explained.
 
X12 said:
They arent gonna change canon....in fact, they never changed canon.
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Do you actually think that? Let's see.

They just used it poorly. The "knights in shining armor" Brotherhood are but a small amount of our favorite xenophobic tech hoarders, and the Outcasts show us a glimpse at the Western Brotherhood. It was inevitable at least one sect of the Brotherhood was gonna "go native" and start helping the Wasteland.
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First, "inevitable" is a strong word. Second, that doesn't justify the numbers of any of the factions. BoS are a small faction since at least FO2. However, they're almost everywhere, in vast numbers.
You might argue that Lyons faction might be bigger because of recruitted wastelanders (there should be lots of initiates, against the lot of paladins and scribes there are, because of basic logic, though), but the outcasts have no explanation. I seem to recall they are less, but I'm not sure, can you confirm?

The Super Mutants look different in Fallout 3 because they are using a different type of FEV (Force Evolutionary is a TYPE of virus, not the name of it), heck, with Harold (who is an FEV mutant, not a ghoul) we know even the same type of FEV can have different results sometimes.
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Doesn't explain why there's FEV on a vault, when Vault-tek is not supposed to know about FEV in the first place, and by the time the bombs fell (probably a few years AFTER the vaults we see in game were done), the first tests with FEV were being done part in The Glow (IIRC, I remember some kind of weird experiment that lead to the revolt, but I'm not sure if it was FEV related) and in part in the Mariposa base.

And as for the Enclave armor being weaker than the T-51b, thats just gameplay/ story segregation, they wanted the rare T-51b to be the most powerful, because its rare, it will encourage people to find it, no one wants to find a weaker unique armor. In story, i bet the Adv. Mark III and Tesla Armor would outshine the T-51b, and the Hellfire would be....godly.
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Gameplay contradicting canon is still contradicting canon, so...
Of course, this is minor, and I actually never noticed.

X12 said:
I dont really care about achievements, I dont TRY to get them. Anyway, all in all I think Bethesda just made MZ to be a joke, aka non-canon. It, unlike Fallout 3, was not referenced in New Vegas.
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Not being mencioned in a following game, developed by other people, doesn't mean the original author didn't mean it to be canon. It just meant they saw no relevant way to mention it, or thought it was nonsense and wanted to leave the off chance it wasn't canon alive, or were simply lacking the interest in making any mention of it. Is The Pitt mentioned in New Vegas? Or Point Lookout (I'm actually asking because I don't remember, but if they aren't, it's good for my point).


Anyway, as another poster said, it doesn't directly step on ALL of the canon, but it does hurt basic logic at times.
 
Oppen said:
X12 said:
They arent gonna change canon....in fact, they never changed canon.
Click to expand...
Do you actually think that? Let's see.

They just used it poorly. The "knights in shining armor" Brotherhood are but a small amount of our favorite xenophobic tech hoarders, and the Outcasts show us a glimpse at the Western Brotherhood. It was inevitable at least one sect of the Brotherhood was gonna "go native" and start helping the Wasteland.
Click to expand...
First, "inevitable" is a strong word. Second, that doesn't justify the numbers of any of the factions. BoS are a small faction since at least FO2. However, they're almost everywhere, in vast numbers.
You might argue that Lyons faction might be bigger because of recruitted wastelanders (there should be lots of initiates, against the lot of paladins and scribes there are, because of basic logic, though), but the outcasts have no explanation. I seem to recall they are less, but I'm not sure, can you confirm?

The Super Mutants look different in Fallout 3 because they are using a different type of FEV (Force Evolutionary is a TYPE of virus, not the name of it), heck, with Harold (who is an FEV mutant, not a ghoul) we know even the same type of FEV can have different results sometimes.
Click to expand...
Doesn't explain why there's FEV on a vault, when Vault-tek is not supposed to know about FEV in the first place, and by the time the bombs fell (probably a few years AFTER the vaults we see in game were done), the first tests with FEV were being done part in The Glow (IIRC, I remember some kind of weird experiment that lead to the revolt, but I'm not sure if it was FEV related) and in part in the Mariposa base.

And as for the Enclave armor being weaker than the T-51b, thats just gameplay/ story segregation, they wanted the rare T-51b to be the most powerful, because its rare, it will encourage people to find it, no one wants to find a weaker unique armor. In story, i bet the Adv. Mark III and Tesla Armor would outshine the T-51b, and the Hellfire would be....godly.
Click to expand...
Gameplay contradicting canon is still contradicting canon, so...
Of course, this is minor, and I actually never noticed.

X12 said:
I dont really care about achievements, I dont TRY to get them. Anyway, all in all I think Bethesda just made MZ to be a joke, aka non-canon. It, unlike Fallout 3, was not referenced in New Vegas.
Click to expand...

Not being mencioned in a following game, developed by other people, doesn't mean the original author didn't mean it to be canon. It just meant they saw no relevant way to mention it, or thought it was nonsense and wanted to leave the off chance it wasn't canon alive, or were simply lacking the interest in making any mention of it. Is The Pitt mentioned in New Vegas? Or Point Lookout (I'm actually asking because I don't remember, but if they aren't, it's good for my point).


Anyway, as another poster said, it doesn't directly step on ALL of the canon, but it does hurt basic logic at times.
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Ok now i understand....still enjoy the game.
 
The "aliens started the war" thing comes from an audio log where the aliens are trying to get nuclear launch codes from some general. He gives up a bunch of military secrets easily, but when pressed for the launch codes he resists and starts screaming, and the audio log ends. It could imply that the aliens were trying to start the war, and may have succeeded in getting launch codes from someone else, but in that specific log the guy seems to die rather than give them up.
 
X12 said:
btw a search button would REALLY be useful. I dont want to have to go through 30-100 pages of threads just to get to the one i want.
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There's one at the top of the website if you look carefully.
 
2house2fly said:
The "aliens started the war" thing comes from an audio log where the aliens are trying to get nuclear launch codes from some general. He gives up a bunch of military secrets easily, but when pressed for the launch codes he resists and starts screaming, and the audio log ends. It could imply that the aliens were trying to start the war, and may have succeeded in getting launch codes from someone else, but in that specific log the guy seems to die rather than give them up.
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It is just an implication, though. Fallout 2 tried to pull the same crap when the supercomputer in the Brotherhood bunker implying that the war was started by bored A.I.s. It's probably best to just to roll your eyes and ignore that sort of thing unless they start trying to insinuate it more forcefully into the canon.
 
Yamu said:
It is just an implication, though. Fallout 2 tried to pull the same crap when the supercomputer in the Brotherhood bunker implying that the war was started by bored A.I.s. It's probably best to just to roll your eyes and ignore that sort of thing unless they start trying to insinuate it more forcefully into the canon.
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In one of my own writings, I added a scenario like that - where I have an unexplained mystery in the background, and a character who offers a rather outlandish explanation. According to my own "lore" his explanation is myth and bs. The reader should recognize it as bs, but there are no further indications clearly stating wether he is wrong or not.

Such effects add a little flavor, people could be talking bs, or these flawed explanations could represent corrupted information, manipulations, politics, and whatnot. It shows as an example of how easily information gets corrupted right here in reality.
 
woo1108 said:
I rather want whole fo3 story is fiction of Fallout universe.
so fiction's fiction.
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On the official Fallout 3 website, there's a pr blurb that says: "New! Our vault technicians have been hard at work to create a simulation that shows what it MIGHT be like to move out into the wasteland of the world abooove!" Or something along those lines. That's a nice explanation.
 
also i just found out that the FEV used in Vault 87 was an INFERIOR version, not the same, perfected version from Mariposa.
 
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