When/ How Did MZ Imply Aliens Started the Great War?

[Makta]

nah.. they add some cloth to power armor which makes meh...

for power armor there are some other problem.
since you can get armor from dead you can get tons of power armor that makes power armor worthless.

except for fo3, power armor is valuable and rare armor even for Wasteland.

The power armor is only rare in F1 and hard to get in FO:T!

And no i actually disslike the ammount of PA's in F3/NV

This really annoys me, because the Super Mutants are built up as like this big threat, and the Brotherhood of Steel has been fighting them for 20 years, and then you go to the vault where they came from, and you... leave... and they're never mentioned again. did the Enclave wipe them out? Is that meant to be like a thing, them wiping out the mutants effortlessly right away, to show how much more advanced they are than the Brotherhood? I don't recall any hints of that. Maybe there's something in Broken Steel that mentions it? I just remember the ending slides being all "and then the Lone Wanderer saved the world and everybody was happy forever." Uh, what about the mutants though?

The vault is their "home" but i guess they are sent of towards DC and surronding areas so when you have cleared out the vault the rest are out in the wasteland i guess.

Edit: They have some other minor bases like Germantown etc.

 

[woo1108]

you can only get two set of enclave power armor at NV.
I don't think it's many.
and to get second one, you should go crazy deathclaw lair.

 

[Makta]

you can only get two set of enclave power armor at NV.
I don't think it's many.
and to get second one, you should go crazy deathclaw lair.

The enclave power armor is rare due to the lack of enclaves.. But the t45 and 51b are as common as they could be. Not only can you buy them here and there but most of the BOS are using them and even NCR! Alltho stripped a bit.

 

[Walpknut]

But using the T-45 and 51b is very unpractical because most of them are labeled as Faction armor, and both the NCR and Legion hate them, so wearing them near any major settlement will send them on a frenzy aainst you.

I never use Power Armor anyway. They always looked pretty ugly to me. And I don't like the movement speed penalty.

 

[SnapSlav]

Ok, I am not a fan boy. Just because i enjoy the game, doesnt mean im a fan boy. I am not saying Fallout 3 "IZ TEH GRETEST GAEM EVA!!!1"
...
also i just found out that the FEV used in Vault 87 was an INFERIOR version, not the same, perfected version from Mariposa.
They didnt modify anything, they just added. These are DIFFERENT super mutants.
Its not bullshit. Its logic.
I just think that...
Its very possible that...
...
Sorry if im being a devil's advocate, i just feel compelled to.

Just.
Fucking.
STOP!!!

There are too many things wrong with your posts and how you approach this topic for me to cohesively address them without losing any sense of rational structure, so this is going to be very schizophrenic.

For starters, you repeatedly disown the label of "fanboy", yet you ARE one, and you can't even see it. There have been panels and genuine debates and discussions on what makes a fanboy, so it's not like I'm just insisting this without any consensus to back me up. Fanboyism isn't anointed to those with an undying passion for a subject- at least it's not ONLY limited to those types of behaviors. It's also part and parcel to having a mere fondness for some kind of material, but the crucial aspect that makes a fanboy is the cyclical arguing they use to justify their own preferences IN SPITE OF import details, like their validity, or counter arguments. Fanboys aren't inherently wrong, but they're stubbornly persistent, no matter what is presented to them, and their reasoning is almost entirely their own, and it's typically warped logic designed to serve its own ends, not actually follow critical thinking. It doesn't matter that you think NOT being in love with FO3 makes you not a fanboy; that's not what makes you a fanboy. Someone raise a point against FO3? You have to come up with YOUR OWN explanation for why they're probably wrong. Part of the subject gets dissected? You don't like it, so you raise an anecdotal point. It goes on and on. The repeating trend being that it's all YOUR OWN ideas. The phrases "I think that", "I found that" "I just feel" repeat themselves again and again in your posts. Not JUST in this thread, either. Facts aren't what YOU think, they're absolutes, and in a work of fiction such as FO3, we can only speculate in the areas that aren't written in stone, but for the rest of the areas, we MUST abide by the stated facts. Not deny them simply because we don't like the zeal with which many users like to address them.

Yes, this site harbors Classic Fallout fanboyism. That's by design, as this is one of the few places fans of the originals can go and find a community of likewise sentiments. But that doesn't make the ENTIRE FORUM some blind "FO3 is bad and if you don't 100% agree WE WILL EAT YOU!!!" fanboy cult, which you repeatedly assert that it is. That's irritating. Many here will take the time to address the GOOD points of something that's more or less universally detested, and carry on a civil discussion on the topic, despite their own reservations about it. THAT'S a Devil's Advocate, not what you're doing. It's largely taboo here to make topics dedicated to FOBOS, but that's because the subject got so ferocious that the entire sub-forum was "dipped" (NMA's term for being removes, deleted, locked, etc), but you can still broach the subject and discuss it here, despite that taboo. It's only a sentiment, it isn't a law. I've carried out many conversations that included FOBOS in the subject, and praised certain things I liked about it, without those discussions erupting into a never-ending flame war. The same is true for FO3. The CONSENSUS is that it's more parts bad than good, which is why it is to be despised, but there are no "NMA Police" going around telling users they cannot like it. Just look at Makta. *kisses* You know I'll always throw you under the bus. ;D Total FO3 Apologist, but is he bashed for it? Is he celebrated for being cooky? No. He likes FO3 equally on par with FONV, and he isn't alone.

What makes you different is how dead-set you seem to be to start a war with this whole fucking forum over YOUR personal likes and dislikes. Your first 3 posts all included the same irritating sentiment: "People here are always..." Many users here lurked for extended periods before they finally contributed, and some dove straight into discussion, while others took the time to make introductions. You started your NMA career with alienation and spite, and that hasn't let up much. STOP IT! There are plenty of users on this site that I just don't like, but that doesn't stop me from carrying on civil discourse with them, provided the opportunity to do so. Your interactions here don't have to have irreversible consequence. Just stop! Stop being so negative and so condescending and stop fighting to the bitter end when the insurmountable tide is going against you. Stop using token phrases to assert your point, rather than the strength of your point, itself (e.g. "It's logic!" doesn't win you the debate). Stop defending something JUST because you feel like it deserves defending. That's not a Devil's Advocate, either, that's just blind stubbornness. Have you read my review for FO3? THAT'S being the Devil's Advocate; I defended what could be defended, and I addressed its flaws openly and honestly.

Did FO3 change canon? YES. We don't need a new topic to go over this again. It's been covered in many other topics, all you need do is READ THEM. Did FO3 try to be genuine to the series? YES. That doesn't mean that the end result was. Did FO3 introduce ANYTHING creative and new to the series? NO! EVERYTHING was either copied, ripped off, imitated, bastardized, or the like. Trogs are about the closest they came to originality, and even then they're just watered down Gehenna. FO3 Enclave Armor was FOT Power Armor. FO3 Vault 87 FEV was just FOBOS "Secret Vault" FEV. If you don't know what those are, look them up. The list goes on, and just because you want to argue in favor of the game won't change these FACTS. Just stop. I'd love to see your participation in these topics (no matter the subject), if you could stop being so abrasive and self-important in all of them. Just stop.

Addendum:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w14IQB8yNNw[/youtube]

 

[Makta]

But using the T-45 and 51b is very unpractical because most of them are labeled as Faction armor, and both the NCR and Legion hate them, so wearing them near any major settlement will send them on a frenzy aainst you.

I never use Power Armor anyway. They always looked pretty ugly to me. And I don't like the movement speed penalty.

Even if they are crap they are common and that was the "problem"!

 

[X12]

I wasnt trying to start a war. I was simply pointing out the flaws of saying "Fallout 3 is a bad game, and thats a FACT" it is not a "Fact" its an opinion. I LOVE the first 2 Fallout games. Does Fallout 3 have a lot of "flaws". OF COURSE IT DOES. And, remember, "the internet's main language is hyperbole". when i say "you guys always" of course i dont mean always, when does anyone ever mean "always" or "everyone" or "no one" or "never". absolutes are always false. Look....im not trying to start a war.

Also i always thought fan boys were people who say "YOU MUST LIKE WHAT I LIKE!" which i have not.

Look.....i want to just bury the hatchet, start over.


Not to mention it seems the only "constructive" post i made, my mod idea for New Vegas, had 0 responses. Some feedback would have been nice. But thats beside the point. Im sorry if i seemed stuborn.

 

[Makta]

Look.....i want to just bury the hatchet, start over.

If you can't beat them you are not hitting them hard enough

 

[Per]

Just.
Fucking.
STOP!!!

Take down the belligerence a notch.

 

[sigma1932]

I was simply pointing out the flaws of saying "Fallout 3 is a bad game, and thats a FACT" it is not a "Fact" its an opinion.

The conclusive statement that FO3 is a bad game has been backed up time and again (and not just on this board) with factual data taken directly from the game itself (i.e. mechanical/formulaic/statistical analysis, close examination of actual wording/architecture used in designing the dialogue/story/quest-related content, etc).

As an example, the FACT that everything in the game can be done with a level 1 character with the crap gear you get at the start of the game along with the FACT that no choice made during gameplay has any significant and/or lasting effect on other parts of the game as a whole means that 95+% of the RPG-elements in the game can be ignored-- i.e. they're all reduced to pure fluff that is no more crucial to gameplay than the color of your character's eyes is. This in turn makes the game an undeniably piss-poor RPG.

On the other hand, the FPS aspect of the game also harbors sub-par design aspects-- having to piss away ridiculous amounts of ammo to kill trash-mob-level enemies due to mechanical issues with general accuracy in real-time, and enemy AI being terribly stupid and extremely slow to react greatly reduces any remote challenge the game offers, which in turn translates into a mediocre FPS at best.

So, logically, there's no way the game can be considered "good" if it's a piss-poor RPG melded with a mediocre FPS.

Does Fallout 3 have a lot of "flaws". OF COURSE IT DOES.

If a game has enough flaws, at some point it will inevitably be considered a "bad game", and only biased apologists (aka FANBOIS) will still go to great lengths and try to use extremely far-reaching rationale to justify still calling it a "good game" despite logical argument after logical argument, all backed up with FACTUAL EVIDENCE directly from the game's programming/design itself, pointing to the contrary.

You have done exactly this through most of this thread, and THAT is why you got attacked as just another bethesda fanboi.
---
All that aside, while there are a wide range of issues this and a number of other communities take with FO3, the most prevalent point can be summed up as this:
Bethesda did a very half-assed (or, depending on who you talk to, incompetent or careless) job attempting to retroactively connect the mostly generic content of FO3 to the previously-established lore from the originals, often taking some pretty heavy liberties in the process. The result wound up being an extremely loose translation of the previously-established lore that requires an unacceptable amount of suspension of disbelief on the player's part.

Meanwhile, NV builds directly off of that previously-established lore and carries it forward-- similarly to how FO2 was directly built off of FO1.

To put all that more simply, FO3 was built as a generic game with a "fallout skin" pulled over it, and then bits and pieces of story were tweaked (insufficiently) to give the illusion it all connects to the originals, whereas NV was built forward directly from the originals right from the start, with very little question that they intended to honor what was already established as part of the franchise's lore.

This is why, regardless of which installment they like best, most people familiar with the entire series acknowledge NV as the true sequel to FO2 and, for all practical purposes, consider FO3 a spinoff.

 

[X12]

This is why, regardless of which installment they like best, most people familiar with the entire series acknowledge NV as the true sequel to FO2 and, for all practical purposes, consider FO3 a spinoff.

This i agree with. I rather New Vegas be called Fallout 3 and Fallout 3 something else.


Also i was under the opinion that whether the game is good or not is based on each person, how they enjoy it. Some hate it, some enjoy it for what it is. Sorry i was wrong.

 

[SnapSlav]

Take down the belligerence a notch.

Sorry. I didn't see my post coming off that way in the slightest. I was just quite frustrated to the breaking point.

Look.....i want to just bury the hatchet, start over.
...
Some feedback would have been nice. But thats beside the point. Im sorry if i seemed stuborn.

Fair enough. Just try to keep the whole of the conversation in mind when moving forward with your own responses. If EVERYONE keeps reinforcing "Look, it's not like yadda yadda, but blah blah is actually the case." then unless you have some new (and I stress NEW) point to raise in support of yadda yadda, consider that you've probably been ignoring blah blah. As far as feedback is concerned... you can't rush that. I made a new post in the FOT Tech and Help board asking for clarification on a question I had, and I never got any replies on that. FOT just isn't that popular among the bulk of Fallout fans (for reasons I don't understand), as a result it garners very little attention here on NMA, so my post/question went unanswered. You can't make the feedback you want come to you, you just have to accept what answers you do and don't receive.

Also i was under the opinion that whether the game is good or not is based on each person, how they enjoy it. Some hate it, some enjoy it for what it is. Sorry i was wrong.

Indeed, very wrong. A game's "quality" is not a subjective experience, it's an objective matter than can be qualified based on static measurements. Although unlike "This is a good shed to store my tools", the measurements you use to judge the quality of a game are much more diverse and far more complicated. You have to approach it from a review of a technical standpoint, from a user responsiveness perspective, from a presentation standpoint, and on and on and on. People who confuse their own experiences as quality, or who think "good" will suffice to describe something will only serve to confuse what qualities that thing might actually have. People "liking" a game doesn't make it "good". A game can't be "good" for one person and "bad" for another. It just doesn't work that way. (It can be "fun" for one person, and "boring" for another, but those are matters where taste come into play, not quality.) FO3 is a thing, which means it can be reviewed concretely, and it has certain aspects that can (in very broad terms) be defined as "good" and other aspects that can (in those same broad terms) be defined as "bad". Those don't change from perspective.

In summation:

[Everything stated 2 posts above]

Yes.

 

[Walpknut]

No one told you you couldn't like Fallout 3. You can if you want, just don't expect us to change our opinions with you badly constructed arguments that have been heard before a million times.

 

[Arden]

All of those statements are just your opinions dudes. There is no good or bad, working or broken, black and white. Just different opinions, so no hard feelings and everything is just fine. No need for arguments. All those critics, be it for movies, books, music, architecture, paintings, games…. Just an easy way to keep unemployment rates low. But that’s just my opinion of course, and everyone is entitled to one.

Right now, I try to form an opinion on X12's rating. Is it a 8/10 or a 9/10? Or perhaps it would not be justified to rate him at all? But since it's just an opinion, I can't be really wrong as such, so 9/10.

 

[Makta]

As an example, the FACT that everything in the game can be done with a level 1 character with the crap gear you get at the start of the game

So just how do you kill of deathclaws/SM Behemoths at lvl 1 with starter gear? And if we exclude deathclaws you can do the same in NV.. So is NV also bad?

 

[X12]

As an example, the FACT that everything in the game can be done with a level 1 character with the crap gear you get at the start of the game.

So just how do you kill of deathclaws/SM Behemoths at lvl 1 with starter gear? And if we exclude deathclaws you can do the same in NV.. So is NV also bad?

I didnt say that, why was i quoted on saying that?

 

[Walpknut]

Makta messed up the quoting.

 

[Makta]

Makta messed up the quoting.

I sure did and i forgot to change it before i went outside.. Uno momento!

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

One of the stupidest retcon to me is Jet being changed from an extremely dangerous post-war drug with a 100% addiction rate and was next to impossible to break your addiction to a pre-war recreational drug that doctors use as subsitute for Med-X with its addiction that can be easily cured (even just by abstinence).

Also i was under the opinion that whether the game is good or not is based on each person, how they enjoy it. Some hate it, some enjoy it for what it is. Sorry i was wrong.

You are confusing "personal enjoyment" with "quality", a way too common mistake. A looooot of people seem to think "I like this xxx therefore is good".

So just how do you kill of deathclaws/SM Behemoths at lvl 1 with starter gear?

Lots of ammo, abusing their poor AI, insta-healing meds, VATS abuse.

And if we exclude deathclaws you can do the same in NV.. So is NV also bad?

I...don't think you can do it, at least not so easily thanks to the reintegration of DT, the nerfing of VATS and meds that aren't insta-healing.

 

[Makta]

One of the stupidest retcon to me is Jet being changed from an extremely dangerous post-war drug with a 100% addiction rate and was next to impossible to break your addiction to a pre-war recreational drug that doctors use as subsitute for Med-X with its addiction that can be easily cured (even just by abstinence).

Also i was under the opinion that whether the game is good or not is based on each person, how they enjoy it. Some hate it, some enjoy it for what it is. Sorry i was wrong.

You are confusing "personal enjoyment" with "quality", a way too common mistake. A looooot of people seem to think "I like this xxx therefore is good".

So just how do you kill of deathclaws/SM Behemoths at lvl 1 with starter gear?

Lots of ammo, abusing their poor AI, insta-healing meds, VATS abuse.

And if we exclude deathclaws you can do the same in NV.. So is NV also bad?

I...don't think you can do it, at least not so easily thanks to the reintegration of DT, the nerfing of VATS and meds that aren't insta-healing.

The AI is still bad and stims heals the same unless you play harcore mode wich most of us do but still. It is a mode not "normal" gameplay.
And no emey besides besides some robots deathclaws and gigant radscorpions have any super high armor and you can avoid them all so that is not really a big difference.