Why are battles so small?

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by KillerBee256, Dec 11, 2015.

  1. KillerBee256

    KillerBee256 Still Mildly Glowing

    212
    Oct 31, 2008
    So I've done some messing around with the console, spawning large amounts of NPCs to fight me and each other. Now I have a high end computer but I've gotten up to 400 npcs fighting each other and only had one crash from 600ish dead ragdolls. So it seem to me even the consoles must be able to handle more then we have in game, is Bethesda just lazy?
     
  2. Ben Soto

    Ben Soto Professional Salt Shaker

    731
    Jul 7, 2014
    Either console limitations (which I understand, console is a huge market and it's best to release on all systems) or limitations in the GECK.
     
  3. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Non Binary Pod Person Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    It is not outright laziness. The engine can only do so much. Those huge 1000 vs 500 NPC battles are short games without save files. That many dead NPC's on the map would bog down the game at some point. It can be done but not for long periods of time, and not without getting rid of the bodies after they die.
     
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  4. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    The game already runs like ass, any more NPCs and the game engine would slow to a crawl. They just need to junk this ancient engine and find something up to today's standards.
     
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  5. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    I'd imagine there must be a reason every dramatic Lord of The Rings-sized final battle, from Oblivion to Fallout 4, has only about 8 NPCs on the screen at one given time.

    Also those moments where Kings or Presidents of the NCR are giving speeches to a massive audience of 6 NPCs.

    If they could do more they probably would have. This engine should not have been used for Fallout 4 in my humble opinion.
     
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  6. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    The one part with Ulfric Stormcloak making a speech to around 10 NPCs made me laugh uncontrollably the first time I seen it.
    Or fighting inside of Whiterun during a "civil war" with a few NPCs from each side fighting at a time with others spawning off screen when the others die.
     
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  7. KillerBee256

    KillerBee256 Still Mildly Glowing

    212
    Oct 31, 2008
    I can't help but think they are playing it safe, but then what are the specs on the xbone?
     
  8. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    The consoles would explode otherwise, the engine is already a poorly optimized hunk of junk as is.
     
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  9. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    I'm not sure it's limited by the consoles. I think it's limited by the game engine itself. However, I personally do not know.
     
  10. Kilus

    Kilus Not Australian Orderite

    May 3, 2003
    What if a NPC in a battle kicks a tin can? According to Bethesda it means you enable physics on the can and track its position for the rest of the game. If Bethesda lost its obsession with tracking tin cans they would be able to do more and have their game simply run better.

    Also the game isn't designed around such big battles. They are rather unintelligent messes.

    And it takes focus of the player(not a strict Bethesda criticism unless you go for something like Dynasty Warriors you can't have the player be a central focus and have hundreds of enemies).
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2015
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  11. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    Yea but I need those tin cans now for Fallout-craft/Settlement building...they are VERY important to Fallout now...
     
  12. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    Yeah optimization is the least important priority for Bethesda so it seems. Gotta market our shitty game with 80% of our budget instead!
     
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  13. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Shit engine.... lot's of cut content... what did Beth do for six years?
     
  14. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I still don't get it why Bethesda still hangs on Gamebryo like fleas to a dog. Despite all of the love that some people have for it here. It really, really, really is about timet hat they get to a new one. I think at least SOME issues could be solved in the future.
     
  15. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Maybe they want to save money? Cause Jesus where do their fund go to? Back to their pocket?
     
  16. Kilus

    Kilus Not Australian Orderite

    May 3, 2003
    Gamebryo was never the problem. It is Bethesda's design choices and focus that is the problem.
     
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  17. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    And that they seem not to use their amount of money.
     
  18. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Possibily. Good programmers can do amazing things with engines. Still, doesn't explain why Beth is literaly the only studio out there still using Gamebryo. Particularly when you consider how old it is by now.
     
  19. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    How old is it?
     
  20. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    Used since Morrowind so around...13 years.