Why can't Bethesda fans see the forest for the trees?

Millim said:
I think the best way we can describe Fallout is like this;
Fallout 3 is like an average cigarette, it's bad for your health, but you don't care anyway, you may as well enjoy the finer things in life. It may give you cancer and you'll have health problems, but you do it anyway cause it relaxes you. There are things you would change and not everything that goes into an average cigarette you agree with. But it fills its purpose and you like doing it. And if you want to quit, well, you could just get help or try and find an alternative.

New Vegas is like fine weed. It hits your brain and you're just in another World. It has its health benefits and it puts you out of Town. You and your buddies get together, maybe put on some Mr Bungle and get high together. And everytime you go back it feels fresh and new.

Fallout 4 is like cheap shitty cigarettes, it'll kill you quicker (if you don't decide your life is worthless enough and you end it beforehand). It tastes like shit, doesn't do anything and you wonder why you buy it.

This is from a non-smoker by the way, I just wanted to find the strangest way to describe the Nu-Fallout games (I don't think I did a bad job tbh).
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Sorry I'm late to the party, How's everyone doing? @Mr Fish please don't change the chicken avatar for at least one week, thank you.
 
@DirtyOldShoe
Thinking of sticking to this one. I finally got around to checking up my external hard drive and looked for my old avatar of an edited SMNT-Michaelangelo and I couldn't find it so... Shit. All my old NMA avatars are gone. So, fuck it. Gotta use something as an avatar and this is the best one I could find among the avatars left over.
 
Mr Fish said:
@DirtyOldShoe
Thinking of sticking to this one. I finally got around to checking up my external hard drive and looked for my old avatar of an edited SMNT-Michaelangelo and I couldn't find it so... Shit. All my old NMA avatars are gone. So, fuck it. Gotta use something as an avatar and this is the best one I could find among the avatars left over.
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The best avatar you could find was Mickey mouse fondling a chicken?
 
Mr Fish said:
@DirtyOldShoe
Thinking of sticking to this one.
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Fine choice.
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@R.Graves mind your manners when your speaking to and elder.. connoisseur?
 
TheVaultKeeper said:
I personally loved both the rat king and the intelligent death claw. I liked the contrast between goofiness, brutality and honesty which fallout 2 provided. I think it makes for a nice dark blend of humor. But I fully understand if someone would have preferred black isle to play it straight as well.
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There's a difference between bringing a more humorous tone to the franchise and straight up throwing in screwball wackiness for shits and giggles. The latter is how we got Fallout 4.

Fallout 2 has more than enough material to make up for stuff like the Rat God and Brain, but it doesn't make those moments any less out of place; criticism where criticism is due, and so forth.

I wouldn't even have minded as much if they'd been properly explained or were less related to the wider world; as it stands, the fact that both Brain and Keeng Ra'at are given no reason to exist is a massive pet peeve of mine and the fact that Brain, in particular, is the leader of a cult strikes me as unnecessarily quirky.
 
Yea Fallout 2 is not anywhere near the level of stupid that Fallout 4 is on.

If the "fun/whacky" writing of an otherwise serious game makes me cringe and quit the game, it's a problem. This happens multiple times in Fallout 4.
 
It's not just Ghosts or the sperm whale carcass middle of nowhere; even more central themes of Fallout 2 like New Reno, Shi, Vault City and Enclave are rather silly. Fallout 2 felt like a high fantasy setting with every cool and nonsensical idea thrown into the mix (FEV and radiation=magic=everything is possible). This game could be named as "Deadpool in the Wasteland" and nobody would notice the difference. Even in your face juvenile jokes were there...
 
Just played a bit fallout 2 myself. The explanation as to why the folks in ghost farm don't send someone to modoc themselves is a bit dumb.
 
R.Graves said:
The explanation as to why the folks in ghost farm don't send someone to modoc themselves is a bit dumb.
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Didn't they say they dislike sunlight and the surface or something?, That seems like a totally legit explanation. You wouldn't after living underground your whole life.
Theinnerfish said:
the sperm whale carcass middle of nowhere
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Random Encounter, wasn't supposed to be a serious canonical part of the game. It's supposed to be a reference to Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, where the Improbability Drive turned two nuclear missiles in to A Sperm Whale and a Bowl of Petunias.
Theinnerfish said:
New Reno, Shi, Vault City and Enclave are rather silly.
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Everyone always says those things are silly, but to be honest I don't see why.

I mean, with New Reno, yeah a city run on gambling isn't exactly a plausible thing, but a city of sin like New Reno, with drugs and prostitutes out in the open seems very much like the kind of thing you'd expect from a post-apoc.

As for The Shi, yeah the whole borderline racist asian stereotypes gets tired very quickly, but they are incredibly plausible as a faction.

Vault City I don't see what you're complaining about, they didn't seem silly at all.

Enclave, yeah they are comicbook level villains, who are obviously supposed to be Nazis in Space, but they are written in a way that explains each phase of there plan, and why they do it. Don't see why having a cliche villain is bad if you back them up enough.
 
@JO'Geran they mentioned the sunlight problem yeah. But they also said that they're so used to having blackness over their heads when confronted with the sky they freak out and feel a strong "falling up" sensation. So they spaz out and clutch the ground. I don't know but that's pretty funny/silly to me for an otherwise serious quest. Well not too serious I got a real Scooby doo vibe early on in that quest. But still.
 
Theinnerfish said:
It's not just Ghosts or the sperm whale carcass middle of nowhere; even more central themes of Fallout 2 like New Reno, Shi, Vault City and Enclave are rather silly. Fallout 2 felt like a high fantasy setting with every cool and nonsensical idea thrown into the mix (FEV and radiation=magic=everything is possible). This game could be named as "Deadpool in the Wasteland" and nobody would notice the difference. Even in your face juvenile jokes were there...
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Yeah, so? Doesn't excuse Bethesda from making dumbfuck of a game FOR THE SECOND TIME.
 
Nothing is more hypocritical and cowardly then making an ultra violent 'M' rated game, and then scrubbing all the mature and thoughtful themes the setting can provide for the sake of the children you know are playing anyway.

Sure, banking on a ten year old buying this game to rip a raider's head off with a chainsaw is A-OK. But let's not challenge their intellect a little, and have have them develop their reasoning and questioning skills a bit with tough situations that'll challenge what they believe. We can't have mature themes, let's think of the children here!

Bethesda's worst crime is that they patronize kids with a belief that they don't want to have their mind opened up. They think that kids are dumb, and they just want to homerun a deathclaw with their swatta, sending their ragdolls flying into the BoS blimp with stadium crowd sound effects.

I guarantee you that there are philosophy majors who started their journey by playing Fallout 1 when they were ten out there. What is Fallout 4 going to inspire this generation to do? Teach them to spend their money better?
 
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Black Angel said:
Yeah, so? Doesn't excuse Bethesda from making dumbfuck of a game FOR THE SECOND TIME.
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Especially when Obsidian pretty much wrote the guidebook on how to make a proper fucking Fallout game 4-5 years prior. Bethesda has literally no excuse for the garbage that is Fallout 4. Every new "innovation" they've put into the game is used to market console gamers who can turn their brain off for a few hours, kill shit, and move on with their day. It has no long-lasting impact.

Fallout 2 is a game that IIRC had a bit of a hard time during development. I believe I remember reading that Tim Cain left early on and it had no creative director or something akin to that. Obviously it doesn't excuse some of the random shit in Fallout 2, but Fallout 2 overall is not a bad game. A lot of people appreciate Fallout 2 because it's still a fun game with fantastic characters, designs, atmosphere, soundtrack, and lots of memorable moments.

At least that's the way I see it, I mean I know there are people on this site that don't care for Fallout 2 nearly as much as 1, but as someone who is a relative new comer to the series compared to others, I think it's fine.
 
R.Graves said:
@JO'Geran they mentioned the sunlight problem yeah. But they also said that they're so used to having blackness over their heads when confronted with the sky they freak out and feel a strong "falling up" sensation. So they spaz out and clutch the ground. I don't know but that's pretty funny/silly to me for an otherwise serious quest. Well not too serious I got a real Scooby doo vibe early on in that quest. But still.
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Well, even in the real world today there are people who suffer from Casadastraphobia, now imagine someone who lived underground for all his life, including being born underground, never seen the sky even on pictures and then coming out and seeing the vastness of the sky... I bet it would be traumatising for many people.
 
Deeves said:
Nothing is more hypocritical and cowardly then making an ultra violent 'M' rated game, and then scrubbing all the mature and thoughtful themes the setting can provide for the sake of the children you know are playing anyway.

Sure, banking on a ten year old buying this game to rip a raider's head off with a chainsaw is A-OK. But let's not challenge their intellect a little, and have have them develop their reasoning and questioning skills a bit with tough situations that'll challenge what they believe. We can't have mature themes, let's think of the children here!

Bethesda's worst crime is that they patronize kids with a belief that they don't want to have their mind opened up. They think that kids are dumb, and they just want to homerun a deathclaw with their swatta, sending their ragdolls flying into the BoS blimp with stadium crowd sound effects.

I guarantee you that there are philosophy majors who started their journey by playing Fallout 1 when they were ten out there. What is Fallout 4 going to inspire this generation to do? Teach them to spend their money better?
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This is exactly what Fallout 4 is. Dumbed down FPS for console kids that has none of the mature story elements of previous games.

Bethesda games are getting so dumbed down that pretty soon even the console kids are going to start saying "Bethesda games are stupid."
 
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Irwin John Finster said:
This is exactly what Fallout 4 is. Dumbed down FPS for console kids that has none of the mature story elements of previous games.

Bethesda games are getting so dumbed down that pretty soon even the console kids are going to start saying "Bethesda games are stupid."
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I like to think that myself, but then I see "gems" like this one posted on Bethesda.net and I honestly have to wonder.


Some Bethestard said:
This is a less a discussion starter than a brief comment and you'll forgive me for repeating what has probably already been expressed multiple times.

With startling serendipity, Bethesda names their worst quest "Best Left Forgotten." That is perversely appropriate since forgetting this forced quest would be a dream come true. Sadly, the rage-pain of it will longer long and hard and bitter. Even after watching a pretty reasonable video tutorial online, I'm STILL not motivated to bother with this virtual puzzle quest. Partly because I'm deeply resentful that it's essential to extending the narrative line. And partly for the sheer tedium of it all.

The number ONE reason I play Fallout games is their spontaneity, the unpredictably of what will happen next, combined with the ability to deal with situations in multiple ways, insuring real dramatic excitement, no matter how many times something is replayed. The insertion of a compulsory puzzle into a main quest narrative seems so unduly cruel on the part of the game designers and fills me with such resentment that I've had a hard time even turning the game back on. As I said, even after learning how to do it, I just ignore the game. Leave the XBox off. It's a real shame because, otherwise, Far Harbor was an excellent DLC.

What makes it even more painful is that FH is so far the only narrative-based DLC....you know, for those of us whose interest in crafting is slim to none.

Sadder STILL, as I stare in sad tedium at the innards of this computer's memories and the magical beam that must find a route through the inanity, my own actual memory flashes on Skyrim's excellent The Break of Dawn quest. Best Left Forgotten is no Break of Dawn. It is....best left forgotten.

Most stunning of all, it's the kind of thing that cuts entirely against the grain of the immersion that Fallout is otherwise so excellent at creating. Your rhythm of play is entirely disrupted, you're taken out of the headspace of your character and his/her choices. And yes, I do realize this is intentional, since you're supposedly now inside an android's memories, hence a different terrain and, of course, that would disrupt your general existence. But just because you can legitimize that rationally does not mean it's the right choice for the gameplay.

DLC-breaker and heartbreaker.

Less Stimpak than Depressionpak.

The bring-everything-to-a-screeching-halt task.

The quest that made me stop playing and read a book instead.

(sigh)
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So in one Far Harbor quest, Bethesda tries something just a little bit different than yet another Radiant "Kill-Loot-Return" mission, and this guy writes a pseudo-intellectual dissertation on how his "immersion" is completely shattered and he just can't play the game any more.

This is why we can't have nice things.
 
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