Why can't Bethesda fans see the forest for the trees?

JO'Geran said:
Random Encounter, wasn't supposed to be a serious canonical part of the game. It's supposed to be a reference to Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, where the Improbability Drive turned two nuclear missiles in to A Sperm Whale and a Bowl of Petunias.
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Don't worry i know it was a reference albeit it's such an "in your face" reference that would force anyone to google it which nullifies the point of having a reference. Making subtle references is one thing; reading something and putting the most obvious thing you can remember from a chapter into the game world another. The door number of a super computer being 42 is nice, a sperm whale in middle of wasteland is equivalent of a dick joke version of a reference.

JO'Geran said:
Everyone always says those things are silly, but to be honest I don't see why.

I mean, with New Reno, yeah a city run on gambling isn't exactly a plausible thing, but a city of sin like New Reno, with drugs and prostitutes out in the open seems very much like the kind of thing you'd expect from a post-apoc.

As for The Shi, yeah the whole borderline racist asian stereotypes gets tired very quickly, but they are incredibly plausible as a faction.

Vault City I don't see what you're complaining about, they didn't seem silly at all.

Enclave, yeah they are comicbook level villains, who are obviously supposed to be Nazis in Space, but they are written in a way that explains each phase of there plan, and why they do it. Don't see why having a cliche villain is bad if you back them up enough.
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I don't give a shit if it's considered racist. In a game where American Government is depicted as racist, nepotist, fascist entity that believes freedom through genocide, how Shi are depicted is fair i'd say. My problem is both are borderline nonsensical.

No matter how much time you take to write a background for stupid shit doing so can't constitute a decent and serious theme (Bethesda Studious ™). Using one mcguffin device after another to explain every faction in the game is not good writing, it's the opposite.

It baffles me that everyone rightfully tears down Fallout 3 and 4 (as they should) but refuse to admit how imbecile the writing of Fallout 2 was. It has a good dialog system, a better ui and gigantic game world and i admit it did improve almost everything. However if we're talking about the writing it's not even half as good as Fallout.
 
Theinnerfish said:
My problem is both are borderline nonsensical.

No matter how much time you take to write a background for stupid shit doing so can't constitute a decent and serious theme (Bethesda Studious ™). Using one mcguffin device after another to explain every faction in the game is not good writing, it's the opposite.
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You say that these factions are borderline nonsensical, and are based entirely on one mcguffin device, but are providing no examples of such. I seriously don't get why you think these areas are so nonsensical, especially not Vault City(I thought that area was very fleshed out and well-done)
 
Shardik said:
I like to think that myself, but then I see "gems" like this one posted on Bethesda.net and I honestly have to wonder.




So in one Far Harbor quest, Bethesda tries something just a little bit different than yet another Radiant "Kill-Loot-Return" mission, and this guy writes a pseudo-intellectual dissertation on how his "immersion" is completely shattered and he just can't play the game any more.

This is why we can't have nice things.
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My immersion was shattered the second the protagonist opened his mouth in the opening cutscene and had the most contrived, forced-dramatic intro possible. I thought I was playing a generic military FPS seeing that introduction.

They didn't even get Ron Perlman for the traditional introduction, further emphasizing my position that Fallout 4 is equivalent to Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel and not an actual Fallout game.
 
Shardik said:
I like to think that myself, but then I see "gems" like this one posted on Bethesda.net and I honestly have to wonder.




So in one Far Harbor quest, Bethesda tries something just a little bit different than yet another Radiant "Kill-Loot-Return" mission, and this guy writes a pseudo-intellectual dissertation on how his "immersion" is completely shattered and he just can't play the game any more.

This is why we can't have nice things.
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The number ONE reason I play Fallout games is their spontaneity, the unpredictably of what will happen next, combined with the ability to deal with situations in multiple ways, insuring real dramatic excitement, no matter how many times something is replayed.
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Why is that person playing Fallout 4 then? A game where if you join a faction you still have to play almost all the missions of a different faction. Where most quests are go here, kill everything, possibly get something or someone and come back?
Why isn't that person ranting about pretty much all of the base game?
That person talks about Skyrim, I think (s)he likes it because the puzzles in Skyrim are so easy with the solution right there in your face, so not much thinking is involved. If I have to take a guess this person is one of those that want fast paced, action filled, brain dead puzzles, "not have to think" type of games. But if so then why not say so instead of going on and on saying stuff that contradicts himself/herself...
Theinnerfish said:
It baffles me that everyone rightfully tears down Fallout 3 and 4 (as they should) but refuse to admit how imbecile the writing of Fallout 2 was. It has a good dialog system, a better ui and gigantic game world and i admit it did improve almost everything. However if we're talking about the writing it's not even half as good as Fallout.
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Oh people already broke apart Fallout 2 writing many times around here in the past. It happened a lot and that is why many always put Fallout 1 as being better than Fallout 2.
But now about the silliness on Fallout 2, to be honest when I played it back when it came out I thought it was quite good. After replaying it many times over the years I started to see the "bad" in it and wondered why I didn't see it back then, maybe I was just younger and not as smart? Maybe my English back then wasn't as good as now? Maybe I was hyped about playing the sequel of the most amazing computer game I have ever played before? I will have to say that those things must have had their part in it, but I also started to think about the past and noticed that New Reno and The Shi made way more sense back then because it was the 90's. Popular culture was all about martial arts and gangster movies (for decades I have been watching those) and it seemed to fit so well with the game because that was what Hollywood had pushed down our throats for decades.
What I mean is that the game was made in a time where those things fitted very well with the story because popular culture in the real world allowed that to happen. Then when the years have passed, popular culture changed and so did how those things fit in the game. Looking more and more out of place.
Now a good game with good writing should hold it's weight with the pass of time, so Fallout 2 should have addressed that, but to be honest when the game came out the writing was more fitting than now, 20 years later.
Fallout 3 and 4 on the other hand the writing is bad even when they came out, there is no doubt about that.

Gah, sorry for the wall of text. I always have trouble to put my thoughts into words and giant posts ensue.
 
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I always pretended that whales presence was alway gonna be a mystery to the chosen one. I like to pretend it's canon because without context it is pretty mysterious. I like that. I pretend some amphibious sea monster drug it all that way at some and left or maybe something stranger got it there! Or maybe I'm watching too much twilight zone.
 
R.Graves said:
I always pretended that whales presence was alway gonna be a mystery to the chosen one. I like to pretend it's canon because without context it is pretty mysterious. I like that. I pretend some amphibious sea monster drug it all that way at some and left or maybe something stranger got it there! Or maybe I'm watching too much twilight zone.
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Maybe Godzilla did it.
latest
 
That is another cool thing about Fallout 2 special Easter Egg encounters. They were made with love!
Look how they had specific game assets made just for them, the whale, the TARDIS, the giant footprint, the Star Trek transport ship, the aliens, etc. They all use stuff (graphics, sounds, etc) that is not used anywhere else in the entire game.
Fallout 4 is always the same skeletons or teddy bears, holding or using the same objects that we see everywhere in the game in stupid positions.

EDIT: And I forgot using Skyrim assets, Nirnroot anyone?
 
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Irwin John Finster said:
My immersion was shattered the second the protagonist opened his mouth in the opening cutscene and had the most contrived, forced-dramatic intro possible. I thought I was playing a generic military FPS seeing that introduction.

They didn't even get Ron Perlman for the traditional introduction, further emphasizing my position that Fallout 4 is equivalent to Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel and not an actual Fallout game.
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For me Fallout 4 is the spiritual sucessor to Fallout PoS. It seems Bethesda finally achieved what Interplay envisioned. Generic action infested schlock for the console masses.
 
Risewild said:
That is another cool thing about Fallout 2 special Easter Egg encounters. They were made with love!
Look how they had specific game assets made just for them, the whale, the TARDIS, the giant footprint, the Star Trek transport ship, the aliens, etc. They all use stuff (graphics, sounds, etc) that is not used anywhere else in the entire game.
Fallout 4 is always the same skeletons or teddy bears, holding or using the same objects that we see everywhere in the game in stupid positions.

EDIT: And I forgot using Skyrim assets, Nirnroot anyone?
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Technically, the Easter Eggs @Izak and I put up were from Fallout 1. It's surprising (after seeing Fallout 1) that some of the goofier Easter Eggs of the older Fallout games also came from 1 but I agree with what you are saying, at least Black Isle was dedicated when making these Easter Eggs. There was real effort in them like the classic Bridgekeeper encounter in 2 where actual in-game statistics and mechanics were used in the dialogue for that sequence (incidentally, I always blew up the Bridgekeeper with the third question) whereas Bethesda instead merely puts a funny name on an object or person.
 
Risewild said:
They all use stuff (graphics, sounds, etc) that is not used anywhere else in the entire game.
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There have been eastereggs in the Gamebryo Fallouts that used unique assets though, Maud's Muggers come to mind, they were a fully voiced group that were only useful for that easter egg, there was also this which was pretty cool.
 
Theinnerfish said:
Don't worry i know it was a reference albeit it's such an "in your face" reference that would force anyone to google it which nullifies the point of having a reference. Making subtle references is one thing; reading something and putting the most obvious thing you can remember from a chapter into the game world another. The door number of a super computer being 42 is nice, a sperm whale in middle of wasteland is equivalent of a dick joke version of a reference.



I don't give a shit if it's considered racist. In a game where American Government is depicted as racist, nepotist, fascist entity that believes freedom through genocide, how Shi are depicted is fair i'd say. My problem is both are borderline nonsensical.

No matter how much time you take to write a background for stupid shit doing so can't constitute a decent and serious theme (Bethesda Studious ™). Using one mcguffin device after another to explain every faction in the game is not good writing, it's the opposite.

It baffles me that everyone rightfully tears down Fallout 3 and 4 (as they should) but refuse to admit how imbecile the writing of Fallout 2 was. It has a good dialog system, a better ui and gigantic game world and i admit it did improve almost everything. However if we're talking about the writing it's not even half as good as Fallout.
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The tonal shift really did confuse me from transitioning from fallout 1, to fallout 2.

I didn't really care for the pop culture references, Nor did i appreciate the abandonment of the aforementioned of the grim tone that was set. I kind of accepted the ladder that i just said and really enjoyed New Vegas. In fact its my favorite fallout game to date but fallout 1 is pretty close.
 
MercenarySnake said:
I'm no expert on these sorts of things but if you've been in Bethesda's shoes working on games for over a decade then it shouldn't be as hard as say a noobie just starting on things like creating game assets and models.
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Well, bethesda is horrible at writing, game design, animation, and is super fucking lazy.

If it was that hard they'd never bother with New assets in the first place. They barely do as is.
 
i'm not surprised at interplay writing on fallout 2, after all interplay is the one that doing Fallout: POS
 
R.Graves said:
Well, bethesda is horrible at writing, game design, animation, and is super fucking lazy.

If it was that hard they'd never bother with New assets in the first place. They barely do as is.
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They're not lazy, they're just very utilitarian and won't spare the manpower on finishing touches. Which makes sense with how much work they give themselves to be bigger in scale than their last game. Not that it garners a lot of sympathy from me, as the 'got to be biggerer and betterer' mantra is shit that Bethesda only imposes on themselves. It's like a guy who insists he has to do all of his grocery shopping while hopping on one foot on principle.

"No, no, we can't stick to one comfy sized map and properly populate it like normal developers, we have to make our map ten miles wide! Now excuse us and be understanding as we barely hobble across the finish line for our November release ..."
 
If you mean by bigger, throwing a bunch of vertical maps/locations in the game in the form of towers and throwing more radiant quests at the player, then yes, they always go for "bigger". It feels like Mc Donalds would have doubled the size of their Burgers. Sure, you get more, but do you get also quality?
 
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