Yes, modern military's use them, but still, they take the best part of a minute to reload, but they can kill if you are accurate enough, but a gun can be suppressed as well, and up to 20 round can be loaded into a gun per reload which can take less than 5 seconds to complete. So assuming that one crossbow bolt can kill someone silently, then take 20 seconds to reload, you would get found out if there is someone nearby enough while reloading, whereas with a gun, you could silently kill each target with a shot to the anyway in the upper torso and above, then kill the person nearby before he sounds an alarm. Practically, a suppressed gun is better than a crossbow.
Why do you think a crossbow was never added?
- Thread starter Grec
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Yes, but my point is, what if two guys were standing next to each other, and you shot one of them all sneaky like with a crossbow, then tried to reload in 20 seconds, but the other one would undoubtedly notice his friend has died, then sound the hypothetical alarm, and you would die. With a silenced pistol, you could shoot one, then shoot the other, and run away before people could discover where the noise is coming from...then reload after killing 18 more people.
:::SILUS:::
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Mr Krepe said:
Oh my, now were strawing hard. And this is your argument for why there is absolutely no crossbows in falllout lore?
Oh sorry, back to Fallout lore:
Yes, but my point is, what if two NCR Rangers were standing next to each other, and a Legionaire shot one of them all sneaky like with a crossbow, then tried to reload in 20 seconds, but the other one would undoubtedly notice his Ranger buddy had died, then sound the hypothetical alarm, and the Legionaire would die. With a silenced pistol, the Legionnaire could shoot one ranger, then shoot the other, and run away before NCR military police could discover where the noise is coming from...then reload after killing 18 more NCR soldiers.
Yes, but my point is, what if two NCR Rangers were standing next to each other, and a Legionaire shot one of them all sneaky like with a crossbow, then tried to reload in 20 seconds, but the other one would undoubtedly notice his Ranger buddy had died, then sound the hypothetical alarm, and the Legionaire would die. With a silenced pistol, the Legionnaire could shoot one ranger, then shoot the other, and run away before NCR military police could discover where the noise is coming from...then reload after killing 18 more NCR soldiers.
Ilosar
Vault Fossil
You do realize the forces you presented use modern crossbows, right? These are much better than anything any Wastelander could realistically craft from scrap metal or whatnot. And even then, it's certainly used solely for close-range commando action, where even suppressed guns are too loud, or something. There's a reason almost all the unit listed are special forces; anybody else has little use for them in a world where guns and massive mutants run rampant.
Also, quoting myself for great justice because that's the number one reason;
Also, quoting myself for great justice because that's the number one reason;
And to quickly elaborate before they ask why it wasn't in the previous Fallouts: the weapon is generally impractical, say if your being charged by a super mutant wielding a rather large sledgehammer, and you shoot him once in the chest with a crossbow, the chances are he will still be charging you, by the time you have reloaded your face is filled will sledgehammer.
:::SILUS:::
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Ilosar said:
I'm not saying it should be a commonly seen weapon but that it would be awesome to have it in the game. Like for instance if a small faction of elite hunters, i.e. Thorn would use it, it would be great or just Red Lucy exclusively. Or if you would encounter a hitman-like NPC who uses it, or if you could simply find it in some godforsaken locker like other unique relic wepons, or anything.
It's just downright retarded that there are so many goofy and lolable fist weapons in the game and other things like welding poles, giant antennas, alien weapons, bear paws, nuclear hand grenades, bug legs, mesmerizers, steam rifles and whatnot but there is not a single crossbow (in the whole Fallout world/lore in general, not just NV).
But i agree Gaybryo probably couldn't handle it.
1. People can be good pugilists, so they may augment it with knuckle dusters, then they would put spikes on the end to help their pugilism, then they may develop them into power fists.
2. The antenna in OWB is classed as weapon as it is something you could hit people with, and it is easy to animate, it isn't like you see everyone in the wastes smacking douches with antennas.
3. Alien weapons were there for lulz and reference, not to add to the universal Fallout weapon lore.
4. Bear Paws (See #1)
5. Nuclear hand Grenades?
6. Bug Legs?
7. Steam Rifles?
2. The antenna in OWB is classed as weapon as it is something you could hit people with, and it is easy to animate, it isn't like you see everyone in the wastes smacking douches with antennas.
3. Alien weapons were there for lulz and reference, not to add to the universal Fallout weapon lore.
4. Bear Paws (See #1)
5. Nuclear hand Grenades?
6. Bug Legs?
7. Steam Rifles?
Ah yes Crossbows are at least 5 times more complex than a lazer or plasma rifle. I forgot.
And even people shot by guns take a while to die. Kinda sad hearing stories from my friends back from Iraq/Stan about civilians walking around with their guts hanging out for a few hours before finally laying down and dying. The only areas that kill instantly are the brain/heart. Even a lung shot will kill you by drowning, not the wound itself.
And even people shot by guns take a while to die. Kinda sad hearing stories from my friends back from Iraq/Stan about civilians walking around with their guts hanging out for a few hours before finally laying down and dying. The only areas that kill instantly are the brain/heart. Even a lung shot will kill you by drowning, not the wound itself.
:::SILUS:::
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Mr Krepe said:
Are you really trying to justify the existence of things like Power fists or the Ballistic fist? Really? Really? It's atill a giant antenna. Yeah, much more believeable and plausible then a crossbow.
They are still existing and are a part of the Fallout universal lore. But existence of a single crossbow, that's really pushing it.
Are you really managing to keep a straight face while writing this, really?
Nuka Grenade.
Mantis Gauntlet.
Railway Rifle.
Yeah, i agree with you guys, adding a crossbow to Fallout would be really pushing it.
Oh, forgot about the last three:
1. The Nuka Grenade and Railway Rifle were Bethesda bollocks, an attempt to entertain the wee wittle audience with their exploshuns and stuff like that.
2. Mantis Gauntlet, yes, a mantis leg could come in handy if it was sharp enough, have you honestly never though, that a knife strapped to an arm could be a good weapon, so how's about a sharp limb from an animal that's easier to gather than make a knife.
At your asking me if I could keep a straight face, no I find it hard to keep a straight face while reading about your attempt to make a crossbow fallout-worthy.
In all serious-ness I can see why you would want one, they are pretty cool weapons, yes they are impractical, but so are most weapons in the Fallout series (as you pointed out). It's all a matter of if it would fit in with the game engine, and if it crosses the game developers minds while making the game. They clearly wouldn't be able to do the reload animation in NV and 3, and it might not of crossed the developers minds in the original Fallouts, or it might not of fitted in the engine they used (quite likely, most of the reload animations are the same).
1. The Nuka Grenade and Railway Rifle were Bethesda bollocks, an attempt to entertain the wee wittle audience with their exploshuns and stuff like that.
2. Mantis Gauntlet, yes, a mantis leg could come in handy if it was sharp enough, have you honestly never though, that a knife strapped to an arm could be a good weapon, so how's about a sharp limb from an animal that's easier to gather than make a knife.
At your asking me if I could keep a straight face, no I find it hard to keep a straight face while reading about your attempt to make a crossbow fallout-worthy.
In all serious-ness I can see why you would want one, they are pretty cool weapons, yes they are impractical, but so are most weapons in the Fallout series (as you pointed out). It's all a matter of if it would fit in with the game engine, and if it crosses the game developers minds while making the game. They clearly wouldn't be able to do the reload animation in NV and 3, and it might not of crossed the developers minds in the original Fallouts, or it might not of fitted in the engine they used (quite likely, most of the reload animations are the same).
Fallout engine can handle crossbow animations.
And Gamebryo can handle crossbow animations (seriously, stop blaming absolutely everything on Gamebryo. It's a shitty engine, but why, oh, why wouldn't it be able to handle a specific set of animations?).
There's no technical reason why there are no crossbows in any Fallout game.
So why didn't Fallout 1 have crossbows?
Because it's Fallout and not The Road Warrior.
Simple as that.
Fallout 1 design team didn't add crossbows. Maybe they didn't think of them, maybe they actively decided that they were unnecessary.
Either way, no crossbows in Fallout.
I wouldn't mind them, they are certainly better than nothing.
But I wouldn't hold my breath that they will appear in any canon installment.
And Gamebryo can handle crossbow animations (seriously, stop blaming absolutely everything on Gamebryo. It's a shitty engine, but why, oh, why wouldn't it be able to handle a specific set of animations?).
There's no technical reason why there are no crossbows in any Fallout game.
So why didn't Fallout 1 have crossbows?
Because it's Fallout and not The Road Warrior.
Simple as that.
Fallout 1 design team didn't add crossbows. Maybe they didn't think of them, maybe they actively decided that they were unnecessary.
Either way, no crossbows in Fallout.
I wouldn't mind them, they are certainly better than nothing.
But I wouldn't hold my breath that they will appear in any canon installment.
Ilosar
Vault Fossil
Really? Reloading a crossbow is more complex than inserting and removing a clip (and even, doing just that is no proper reloading method, but it's sped up for gameplay purposes I wager). You need to stand still. You need to pull back the string, hold it, put the new bolt in, and carefully adjust the whole thing so that it's ready to fire. Even for a profesionnal, it takes some time, and anything else would be arcadish on screen. Look at the reloading on Gamebryo; half of the reloading animations look pretty choppy to me, as well as being incomplete (not accounting for the bullet in chamber? No safety? ect.). A crossbow is very hard to properly animate, the character needs to stand still for it not to look silly a hell, you have to account for the string, the proper position of the bolt, movement must be fluid.
That said, you could have an automatic crossbow (like Bioshock's), but the bolts on these are smaller and have difficulty penetrating anything but very light armor (not that it stopped said Bioshock crossbow from 1-shotting hulking monstrosities in armor that can survive crush depth, but hey, it's a game where genes make you shoot lighting). Not very useful in a wasteland. And what's the point of having a crossbow if it more or less functions like a weaker gun anyway?
Finally, I checked a bit (OK, Wikipedia, but don't hit me!) and forces using crossbows today don't use them for combat; it's for things like establishing zip lines, triggering booby traps and tripwires at range, or to stop people carrying explosives to prevent detonation. All are very, very niche uses. In almost every situation a crossbow is useful, a gun is better.
That said, I do agree Fallout has no shortage of weird weapons (acidic water launcher and makeshift gravity gun anyone?). A crossbow would not be out of place as an unique weapon of sorts, but I wager it's just too hard to make such a complex animation for one weapon.
Old Man Vee
First time out of the vault
I don't see why the animation would be too hard... It'd be annoying, as it'd be one that'd force you to stop (Like when you eat a corpse or drink water) and then adjust the bolt (Like when you have to play with a poorly maintained gun)
Wintermind
Vault Senior Citizen
Grec said:
As 'Boris' would say, "No, you're wrong."
There are no such thing as silencers. They are called sound suppressors or suppressors or cans. What they do is lower the sound of a gunshot by around 20 decibels, generally from around 140db to 120db. It is still plenty loud, but it takes the crack out of a rifle shot and generally makes it harder to pinpoint where the shot came from. A gun shooting subsonic bullets of a suppressor will typically make far less noise, little to none, depending on the ammunition and quality of the suppressor.
The real use of a suppressor is to not hurt your ears nearly as much while making it harder for the enemy to locate you.
burningsnow126
First time out of the vault
^
Also some suppressors hide the flash the gun makes so no one can see the shot.
Also some suppressors hide the flash the gun makes so no one can see the shot.
Surf Solar
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
People are discussing the use of crossbows/bows over 8 pages... Really? In a gameworld where hundreds of silly weapons are in, or hundreds of retarded real life weapons have their place, a crossbow is too over the top? I am glad I don't have to justify anything and just put in my game (after I finished the animation), what is fun to play with and gives variation to the game, because that's the only thing what counts, if it enhances the gameplay experience and fits to the tone of the game. There's a plenty of uses for sneaky characters (poisoning arrows, darts, bolts) or survival/tribal alikes and people want variety, there it goes. No wonder people sometimes bitch about how NMA "critisizes" stuff to the get go.
Wintermind
Vault Senior Citizen
muzzle flash also depends on the round/barrel length of your rifle. If you tried to a suppress a M44 for some reason ( don't know why) you'd still get a muzzle flash because that shit just lights up the night.
:::SILUS:::
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Ilosar said:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ5Wk_UEajc[/youtube]
And don't go like OMFG it's CoD and it's a modern crossbow because Fallout is a world that has in the same time mastered the microfusion and AI, has things living with cybernetic body parts and in the same time has people running around wearing bear claws, carrying welding poles and pool cues, ticky tacky houses and boxes of bubblegum surviving through 200 years in a nuclear wasteland, and sentient zombies so it can handle a fuckin modern fast reloading crossbow or a repeatable crossbow or a self-cocking crossbow.
LIESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Other people have access to Wiki too bro. Only a couple of them use them like that.
CIGS uses assault and sniper crossbows.
Chinese armed forces use crossbows at all unit levels from traffic police to the special force Snow Leopard Commando Unit of the People's Armed Police and the People's Liberation Army
Spetsnaz uses assault and sniper crossbows.
Green Berets uses assault and sniper crossbows.
Greece uses assault crossbows.
Turks use assault crossbows.
Barnett is one of the biggest manufacturers of military crossbows wich are often used as great sniper, counter sniper and ambushing weaponry.
Cyanide tipped crossbows were big with Indian marines as great silent killers.
There is utterly and absolutely no reason why not to have crossbow at least as a unique, semi-unique wepon in the game.
PUT IT IN A LOCKED SAFE ON THE BOTTOM OF AN IRRADIATED MINE SHAFT FILLED WITH ANOTHER GAY TROG REHASH, JUST PUT IT IN THE GAME.
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