Would anyone take issue with the Enclave in future games?

BigPipe said:
FO4 SHOULD have Enclave in it, but i would keep them small.

ED-E logs talk about enclave station in chicago right?
Why wouldn't fallout4 be there.imagine, ncr expands to chicago,caesar legion is dying, some new factions have arisen.. and to top it all, you have enclave !!!
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Chicago BoS exists though, they should easily be able to wipe out small Enclave presence with their army of robots, Deathclaws, Supermutants and Ghouls.

I mean... Fallout 3 references them
And as far as FoT being canon my understanding is the basic story is canon along with other things as long as they don't contradict existing lore.
 
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The Enclave could really pop up anywhere in North America. Think about it, it is unknown how many bunkers the US military had when the bombs fell, all of them had to have some sort of staff. This means that there are potentially dozens of bunkers out there with military people in them that the Enclave could run to and continue their work.

I personally would like to see the Enclave help the wasteland and try to rebuild it like the Midwestern BoS has. As far as the Midwestern BoS goes, they exist, and they occupy territory. The Legion has encountered them in Colorado and Lyon's Brotherhood met them near Chicago. I assume that the "canon" ending of Tactics would be the one where they break the Calculator and don't get much out of it. They'd get some manufacturing capabilities and Vault 0's stockpile, but no robot army. Also, who knows whats happened in the Midwest in the 80+ years since Tactics ended. Its likely that the Midwestern BoS rules a land as developed as the NCR, but with more people. Explains why the Legion hasn't moved farther east than Colorado.
 
There's always possibility of Enclave remnants popping up, especially considering we don't know for sure how large they were, but a large-scale organization in any form is extremely unlikely. The Enclave as a government died with Richardson and any bases left would either scatter or survive as disorganized forces. It would be pretty senseless (and boring) if we had the Enclave as a major enemy for the third time, but it could be pretty cool if we saw a former Enclave outpost that became something completely different - like a squad that formed a new faction with a new ideology and goals after the Oil Rig blew up. Similar to how the Brotherhood of Steel was formed by soldiers of the US Army. That'd be a nice way to feature lasting influence of the Enclave without actually bringing them back.
 
Also another point I make about the Enclave is, just because Richardson and Eden were genocidal, doesn't mean that the rank and file were aware of this or even agree with it. For all we know, there are "good" Enclave somewhere out there that might not be the bad guys for once. Like lets say in Minnesota/Wisconsin could have an Enclave bunker they come out and start rebuilding America, what's left and the Midwestern BoS is a potential enemy. This could lead to a New Vegas like dynamic where two known factions are moving into an area and you need to decide who is the better candidate.
 
We should be seeing dozens and dozens of new factions considering how large the wasteland is - especially being mostly cutoff from faster modes of transportation - instead we get the same old thing. It get pretty unbelievable when you have groups of people walking thousands of miles across the US for no good reason. Probably another reason Bethesda stays close to the east coast. You can argue that the zeppelins can get the BoS to certain places. I would tend to agree. Vertibirds can be used as well. I don't think they could move large populations with limited vehicles though.

Basically, I don't see why the Enclave should be in future games much because they have been defeated twice! The BoS shouldn't be spread across the wastes no more than the Enclave or NCR should. I have no problems seeing remnants of the Enclave as long as they are portrayed better than in Fallout 3. New Vegas handled it perfectly keeping them in smaller roles while doing them justice. I am willing to bet the BoS in Boston are the same ones from Capital Wasteland, or at least a splinter group.

What I would like to see is a group comprised of ex BoS, NCR, Enclave, or even other factions, that have created their own unique society vastly different from the others. You could get some of the familiar stuff, like Power Armor, lore, maybe even similar beliefs, but have a totally new faction to work with. If you think about it, if those three factions would have worked together, the wasteland might have actually become a better place. The Master was the only one who could have united them all except he wanted to turn everyone into freaks, which isn't the optimal solution to rebuilding civilization. The Legion wanted to go about it a different way. They absorb conquered tribes into their army, which makes sense if you want to control a large territory. Who better to know the land than your conquered enemies...

As others have pointed out, the average grunt in these armies doesn't necessarily hold the views of their superiors. Deserters would be common as New Vegas portrayed with the NCR in Primm.
 
I think if the Enclave appears in any future games, it shouldn't be as antagonists. Their time as the big bad has ended, and it's much more likely that the outposts referred to in ED-E's logs are bunkers and places to regroup than any sort of major base from which they can mount anything. That way you can have the Enclave and the Midwestern Brotherhood in the same city, since it's not like the Eastern version of the Brotherhood is especially competent or ruthless, so they probably wouldn't be able to pull off the same sort of pogrom that the NCR did (particularly if the Enclave folks were already in Chicago before the Brotherhood showed up.)

To be honest though, I'm going to be more annoyed at seeing the Brotherhood in more games, than the Enclave. The Enclave are the descendants of highly placed people inside of a military-industrial complex conspiracy deep within the pre-war government, the Brotherhood are a cult that started at a specific military base on the west coast after the bombs already dropped. Which do you suppose the average Wastelander in Nebraska or Kentucky is more likely to encounter?
 
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Walpknut said:
Where? They are gardenning kits, good luck finding fertile soil there.... or an atmosphere....
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For the GECK to work on the the moon or Mars, they'd need to be terraformed enough to have an atmosphere, then the GECK could make fertile land.
 
PossibleCabbage said:
Which do you suppose the average Wastelander in Nebraska or Kentucky is more likely to encounter?
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More likely the Midwestern Brotherhood, some remnants of the Army/National Guard that aren't affiliated with the Enclave, local police forces or just some a holes with guns. Besides the Enclave there isn't a "legitimate" remnant of the pre war government. Its more likely that some form of local government would have survived the bombs, depending on where they are in the country. Simple because some areas aren't worth dropping a nuke on.
 
PossibleCabbage said:
I think if the Enclave appears in any future games, it shouldn't be as antagonists. Their time as the big bad has ended, and it's much more likely that the outposts referred to in ED-E's logs are bunkers and places to regroup than any sort of major base from which they can mount anything. That way you can have the Enclave and the Midwestern Brotherhood in the same city, since it's not like the Eastern version of the Brotherhood is especially competent or ruthless, so they probably wouldn't be able to pull off the same sort of pogrom that the NCR did (particularly if the Enclave folks were already in Chicago before the Brotherhood showed up.)

To be honest though, I'm going to be more annoyed at seeing the Brotherhood in more games, than the Enclave. The Enclave are the descendants of highly placed people inside of a military-industrial complex conspiracy deep within the pre-war government, the Brotherhood are a cult that started at a specific military base on the west coast after the bombs already dropped. Which do you suppose the average Wastelander in Nebraska or Kentucky is more likely to encounter?
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Essentially, this. Maybe something a little more than New Vegas, you could have a cell like the Mojave BoS, that you could really help gain a foothold in the region, despite the lack of personnel and resources. I'm think in the scale of what Obisidian intended for the BoS in New Vegas, retake Helios One, fortify and control a small region, etc.
 
The problem with the series is us the fan base to some extent. We aren't willing to get new factions without at least one old major faction being around. For example, if a game were set in Seattle, we'd need something to make it feel like Fallout. So likely some branch of the Brotherhood would be around or god forbid the NCR. Bethesda doesn't want to take too many risks that'll piss off the fan base and that means keeping some old factions around.

Fallout New Vegas leaving the possibility of the Khans moving north and founding an empire is a good thing, it gives Bethesda (or whom ever) the ability to have an old faction in a new area, with the freedom to define the area with other major factions. Back to Seattle, there would likely be a group of Followers around working on something. This connection would give us some connection to the rest of the Fallout world and thus legitimacy. Even if the Followers are a minor faction working for a larger local one, it is a connection to the lore that will keep some of the older fans grudgingly OK with the direction of the game.
 
I disagree. For most of the fanbase, Bethesda created Fallout. So there isn't as much as "old factions" as there is "the good guys from Fallout 3". They can easily create new factions and ditch all they did in 3 if they want. And for the older fans, I believe the waters are pretty much divided. For me, as long as it makes sense, it fits the setting and it retains some role-playing mechanics, I'm good. I prefer not having any known faction if they suddenly decide Fallout 5 will be in China, because that would be a whole new level of nonsense, for example.
 
I wouldn't mind it if there were no previously known factions in a new setting. Truth be told, I didn't like Fallout 3 because it was just so nonsensical that old enemies from F2 would meet each other on the other side of the country. They could've put NCR there for all I care and it would make just as much sense, which is about none. (Don't even get me started on Harold)
 
How would anyone feel about this hypothetical

Fallout 5 in Seattle.

There is one faction that grew out of a Nation Guard base that survived the bombs falling. They're focused on reconstruction and help the locals. They are similar to the Followers of the Apocalypse, but they have guns and will use them to expand. They haven't because they don't have the capacity to make new weapons. They are a military dictatorship

The second faction is the Olympia Militia that formed shortly after the bombs fell. They are a quasi democracy and are just as focused on reconstruction and the first faction, but have fewer even fewer resources.

The third is a confederation of survivalists, hippies and other subgroups that called Seattle home. They are a new faction that rose to increase trade between their settlements and provide security. This group doesn't have a long term plan, each constituent group is more or less on its own.

The last group is a group of religious fundamentalists that wish to create a new world in the image of Old Testament religious law. They are expanding rapidly. The wish to destroy some old world tech and basically create a theocracy based of the middle ages.

Who would like to see something like this without any old factions returning or would want to see at least one old faction just to have a connection to Fallout's lore? Or would this be good so long as the setting and personalities felt right?
 
Fallout in general is somewhat lacking in religious nuts of all sorts. I think it would have to be really, really well done for it to work.
 
Khannis said:
Fallout in general is somewhat lacking in religious nuts of all sorts.
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lolwut

Children of the Cathedral?
Hubologists?
Bright Brotherhood?
Mormons? (no offense to any members of the LDS Church)

Hell, even the BoS's reverence for technology and social structure has been described in game as "quasi-religious" on more than one occasion, unless I'm much mistaken.
 
Wasn't this speaking rat thingy in Gecko also a cult, even if not exactly the most crazy one?
 
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