Would anyone take issue with the Enclave in future games?

[Muskeato]

What might have worked is say have some ex-Enclave person going into the wastes, gathering a bunch of tribes and trying to take over again, believing themselves to be the best representative of the true US government.

...of course, that would basically be a rip off of Caesar's Legion, and the Enclave a pretty messed up by FO3 anyway.

 

[Oppen]

What might have worked is say have some ex-Enclave person going into the wastes, gathering a bunch of tribes and trying to take over again, believing themselves to be the best representative of the true US government.

...of course, that would basically be a rip off of Caesar's Legion, and the Enclave a pretty messed up by FO3 anyway.

AND nonsense, since they believe wastelanders are not even human...

 

[Makta]

What might have worked is say have some ex-Enclave person going into the wastes, gathering a bunch of tribes and trying to take over again, believing themselves to be the best representative of the true US government.

...of course, that would basically be a rip off of Caesar's Legion, and the Enclave a pretty messed up by FO3 anyway.

AND nonsense, since they believe wastelanders are not even human...

They are actually having wastelanders working for them. They just tend to roll over people quite often. I was thinking of something like the US army + Gestapo in a packages of evil asskicking.

 

[Oppen]

What might have worked is say have some ex-Enclave person going into the wastes, gathering a bunch of tribes and trying to take over again, believing themselves to be the best representative of the true US government.

...of course, that would basically be a rip off of Caesar's Legion, and the Enclave a pretty messed up by FO3 anyway.

AND nonsense, since they believe wastelanders are not even human...

They are actually having wastelanders working for them. They just tend to roll over people quite often. I was thinking of something like the US army + Gestapo in a packages of evil asskicking.

The ones I can think of, they planned to kill them with the rest of the wastelanders. I don't remember the Salvatores knowing about Enclave's plans, which means they'd die with the others. The other idea, since they don't have the numbers to repopulate anything anymore, implies they'll need to blend with wastelanders, and that just makes no sense because, on their way to see the world, they'd be just helping corrupt the idea of humanity and the idea of USA. If they had any wastelanders on Fallout 3, I ignore it.

 

[paladin_lord]

If people want to use the Enclave in their setting i believe their first concern should be "when the setting takes place" ? If it was before fallout two than they can portrait the enclave at its climax, perhaps introduce sub-branches of the main faction into less explored regions. However if the story happens after fallout 2 or 3 i suggest the creation of a new faction from the remains of the enclave. This way we keep the story fallout-wise (close to cannon, if is what you wish) and are able to innovate with our's "authors licence".

 

[yarga]

My vote is that I wouldn't mind them showing up in a cameo role, like in FONV, but I don't need to read that book again, thanks.

Enclave sleeper cell as a side-mission, fine.

I want a Moonbase: Fallout, oxygen supply is the new rad-meter, real physics of near-weightlessness, starter area is the retro-50's version of the ISS, you getting unthawed from emergency cryo sleep, shades of Buck Rogers, teaser shot of a devastated Earth from a frosted-porthole leads you decide to try your luck in the top secret newly-minted (circa 2077) Moonbase. You don't realize it's 2177 now, oops.

Hilarity and desperate struggle for survival ensues!

Book it, done.

Edit: Oh and there must be random encounter of a whale and flowerpot, naturally. Or perhaps the skeletal remains of an entire pod of dolphins.

 

[Muff]

Can I see them working well as a major player again? Nope, to be honest I think they where only really used to provide a obvious bad guy and a nice Air Assault visual in FO3 anyway.

I would not be agenst them returning in the same way the Remnants did in NV, but I think it would be interesting to see another faction of descendants of the US infantry who believe that since the Executive branch of the US Gov failed in it's duty to protect America they have to pic up the pieces and rebuild etc and since the war they have built up a unhealthy mix of Xenophobia, Imperialistic intentions but just lack the manpower to really be effective.

 

[Strigoi]

I think the Enclave should return, but not IMMEDIATELY, give it time

Give it a few more games, introduce more villains and factions to the series, the Enclave isn't dead, but they're scattered, it'll be a while until they can recuperate, which wont be for probably a few generations. Downed but not out
I actually want to see the Enclave return guns blazing at the NCR in revenge, burning down Shady Sands with Verti-Assault Teams as retribution for there extermination campaign in Navarro

 

[Atomkilla]

I actually want to see the Enclave return guns blazing at the NCR in revenge, burning down Shady Sands with Verti-Assault Teams as retribution for there extermination campaign in Navarro

I'm sorry, but I don't see this happening.
Navarro and Oil Rig are no more, Enclave has been wiped out in the East and it is suggested that Chicago part of their operation is hardly what Enclave used to be.
Furthermore, biggest Enclave members/supporters are now old people, dead, dying or ashamed of what they once did. Just look at Remnants in FNV. It's hard to assume that Enclave goes any better than that.

No, Enclave is dead. Returning them in any way aside from some abandoned base, old terminals containing data about them or some similar nod of their existence, and their eventual fall, would be over-stretching it like never before.
Besides, from a practical standpoint, returning Enclave to the series is a very bad, counterproductive move. Not only would we prevent ourselves from potentially having another original faction in the game, we would just be asking for a same, watered-down drink more and more.

I don't understand why people have such a hard time leaving Enclave behind. No one complains that there is no Unity, for example. Why is clinging to same old thing so necessary? Is it obligatory that every new Fallout game contains Mutants/Enclave/BoS etc.?
Enclave's already become an absolutely bland, "evil" faction (if it has ever been anything else than that), that has little space for innovation, and should be buried behind. Similar goes for many other factions, organizations and what not. The wasteland is big, there is much out there to explore.

I, for one, find it very satisfying, even comforting so, that Enclave is just another radioactive ruin among the wastes.

 

[Strigoi]

I actually want to see the Enclave return guns blazing at the NCR in revenge, burning down Shady Sands with Verti-Assault Teams as retribution for there extermination campaign in Navarro

I'm sorry, but I don't see this happening.
Navarro and Oil Rig are no more, Enclave has been wiped out in the East and it is suggested that Chicago part of their operation is hardly what Enclave used to be.
Furthermore, biggest Enclave members/supporters are now old people, dead, dying or ashamed of what they once did. Just look at Remnants in FNV. It's hard to assume that Enclave goes any better than that.

No, Enclave is dead. Returning them in any way aside from some abandoned base, old terminals containing data about them or some similar nod of their existence, and their eventual fall, would be over-stretching it like never before.
Besides, from a practical standpoint, returning Enclave to the series is a very bad, counterproductive move. Not only would we prevent ourselves from potentially having another original faction in the game, we would just be asking for a same, watered-down drink more and more.

I don't understand why people have such a hard time leaving Enclave behind. No one complains that there is no Unity, for example. Why is clinging to same old thing so necessary? Is it obligatory that every new Fallout game contains Mutants/Enclave/BoS etc.?
Enclave's already become an absolutely bland, "evil" faction (if it has ever been anything else than that), that has little space for innovation, and should be buried behind. Similar goes for many other factions, organizations and what not. The wasteland is big, there is much out there to explore.

I, for one, find it very satisfying, even comforting so, that Enclave is just another radioactive ruin among the wastes.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Enclave would turn into something else, maybe the Exclave or something
The only way the Enclave Remnants are going to survive is change, which is something they will not accompany of. The only way I can think of them to somehow change is use Wastelanders as Grunts and Cannon Fodder for war, than just simply killing anything not "Pure".

And I never said I wanted the Enclave to be surely back, I want more factions considered "Evil" in the Fallout Spectrum than just them, thats why I said in the previous post to include more things than just them, so I dont even think you read my entire post. If the Enclave comes back like a Phoenix as a whole new different organization that changes their previous ideals (Which again, I doubt, the only way they'll change is exploiting impure Humans than killing) later on in the series, I would actually like to see that.

Also, I kind of would doubt the Enclave, the same people that had time to save themselves from the Great War, the same people that claim they're descended from the American Government, and the same people that orchestrated the Vault Programs, would not fade away so easily

 

[naossano]

In my opinion, it would make sense that the Enclave already had some foothold in many places amongs the USA.

If i am not wrong the Enclave are the remnants of the (Fallout equivalent of...) USA governements.
It make sense that the USA officials and militaries that survived the great war would be scatered in various bunker and safehouse. Considering the size of United States (which is the same in the Fallout world), the fact that a simple oil rig can't sustain too much population, it is more logical to have a presence in more than one place, not to mention that they're also supposed to be monitoring the Vault project, and maintain communications installations.

While i don't want to have them as major antagonists in other games (especially in Fo3, which add not very much interresting content in their background), i think they still have a role to play in subsequents games, as minor faction, or specific characters infiltrated in other factions. (like Arcade Gannon, but not necessary benevolent).

After all, if i stick to what i remember from Fallout 2, they are possibly the one (them or the chinese) who started the war or launch the bombs, actually the one who initiated the vault experiments, and remained the more advanced faction in the wasteland in two games. They're also quite the polar opposite of both the unity (old world vs evolution) and BOS (officials vs desertors). They have too much relevance in the Fallout universe to be simply forgotten.

We could have :
- Some members hidden in societies, with hidden agenda. (Evil Version of Arcade Gannon)
- Remote outpost still operating
- Remote outpost overunn by other groups that use their technology
- Random encounters (please, remove open world and come back to map travel)
- Lost logs that give background informations about them, without them being there. (like EDE)

But they don't need to be in EVERY fallout games, and shouldn't be the major antagonists again. All thing considered none of the main antagonists should keep this status in more than one game.

... On the other hand, if the NCR fully embraces a darker role, we may not need the Enclave...

 

[FOvet]

That's one of the major problems with the Enclave. The possibilities existed for nuances, but they've always been used as a cut-and-dried baddie and now, with them having been so thoroughly dashed against the rocks, there's not much left to branch out from.

If they return as a faction, I don't see many viable directions to take them in-- they could be the same old big bad stormtroopers (boring and increasingly less plausible as time goes on), they could be a splintered faction struggling to maintain their purity of intent under the ever-looming demands of the situation for compromise and adaptation (aka a redundant clone of the Brotherhood with slightly more assholes), or they could... yeah, I don't see many others ways that could go.

Now, if you scale back from faction-level, there might be some promise. A community of survivors and their descendents, maybe a mix of hard-liners and those looking to just keep to themselves and live their lives, tucked up in a corner of the map somewhere trying to avoid attention. But it would have to be handled well. And I don't know that it would be.

Why? Why to this extent? They would be more than a huddle of survivors hiding in holes from the BoS and NCR, and whoever else has a gun and a few troops. We KNOW they have an entire friggin base in Chicago. We KNOW they are remnants of the US government. We know there is at least ONE major base somewhere in Chicago and we can guess there are probably still smaller outposts scattered throughout the wasteland.

People may be pissed off to see the Enclave, but it's not unreasonable for them to be there! It's just not. The saying is Rome wasn't built in a day. Well, nor was it destroyed in a day. FO2 took out Navarro and the oil rig. Fallout 3 took out Raven Rock, an OUTPOST by comparison to the oil rig. So what is their base in Chicago going to be like? It's probably pretty damn huge. How many other places have they spread to, sending out scientists in the field, how many other outposts and such have they established?

That said, I wouldn't mind seeing a change in mentality. Much as I love the FEV plotlines, it is time to switch it up a bit. FO1, FO2, AND FO3 all used FEV as part of their plot. Time to move on to something else. Maybe introduce the Enclave and the Commonwealth--wouldn't it be fun if the Enclave were actually the better faction to side with? Could be great if the Commonwealth ended up being even darker and more bloodthirsty than the Enclave, and you ended up having the option of siding with them for once. Twist it on it's head, make them the good guys, the protagonists (in so much as Enclave CAN be protagonists) in a FO game. Would be fun to see!

I want to see Enclave return, and I want to see more BoS, NCR, and I'd LOVE to see more of the Legion. But I'd like to see other factions too, and hell...why not a region WITHOUT factions at all? Just people struggling to survive, and maybe the goal of that game is to actually organize the survivors? But yes, I'd love to see the Enclave return and why some people say that it's not possible is beyond me. Enclave haters tend to ignore the facts, and the facts are they are still out there, still have a base of operations--and that's enough to make them a threat.

 

[Grievous]

Wasn't it refreshing to not have the Enclave ruining the show in New Vegas? I liked that, the Fallout universe shouldn't just stick to the same couple of factions, especially now that it's become a large franchise.
Too many franchises out there just repeats the same event and with the same lineage of characters, and keeping only new faces for smaller episodes which they then label as 'spin-offs' or one-shot stories. I never liked that.
In fact it is just dreadful to think that New Vegas technically isn't "Fallout 4", so ... yeah, they already treated it as a one-shot story.

But I'd like to see other factions too, and hell...why not a region WITHOUT factions at all? Just people struggling to survive, and maybe the goal of that game is to actually organize the survivors?

Well that I wouldn't disagree ... assuming the game doesn't progress on a railroaded pace, and leads into a singular ending where a Twist explodes on your face and you realize the whole story was in fact an origin tale of the factions you already knew of.

Origin stories are real trendy these days too, personally I wouldn't rule out the possibility on them pulling this off with the Brotherhood of Steel or Enclave or any other faction, taking place after the Great War and before the events of Fallout 1.

After all it's Far easier to make a new game that doesn't connect with the last one when there's a difficult decision to make as to which ending becomes canon for the new game: who won in the Hoover Dam battle? was the Citadel destroyed? was Liberty Prime ever rebuilt? is the Lone Wanderer going on a space voyage after Mothership Zeta? is he still randomly shooting at the earth with the ship's death ray?

Unless the game reads your last save file and carries on the decision you've made, thus carrying a huge multitude of different playthroughs available ...
But yeah, making an origin story is the far easier option.

 

[naossano]

Damn you.

You made me dream for an actual Obsidian upcoming fallout games that aknowledge New Vegas savegames for futures plots....

 

[FOvet]

Damn you.

You made me dream for an actual Obsidian upcoming fallout games that aknowledge New Vegas savegames for futures plots....

They should do this with more games, actually. Any game series where the previous one can have multiple endings, why NOT have the next one read your choices and thus alter the game world from the start? Hell, that would make you want to replay through previous titles just to see how things change--I know some games do have a similar sort of system, and I wish more did this.

 

[Grievous]

Most games that do attempt this system only end up delivering lackluster changes of dialogue continuity, instead of full blown from beginning to end different sets of situations.
If they're actually worried about a game's length, I would for example much rather have a sequel that has four or five Entirely different sets of playthrough at five hour each, rather than one single twenty hour long experience that only carries minor differences here and there.

Speaking of Obsidian, they made a rather ambitious spy game same year New Vegas came out called Alpha Protocol; that game revolved entirely on the notions of choice, it had three main endings that placed the protagonist at different end-game positions, and each ending had at least two to three different sets of major outcomes linked to it, At the very Least.
Although the publisher Sega has denied funding for a sequel, the mere thought that a sequel would either follow up or take notice to All of these possible outcomes, is just plain insane. It's simply not feasible.

It'll be marvelous for damn sure if it happens, but ... no, it's too risky.

Origin stories it is then, or a new set of characters taking place in the same universe, but on the other side of the planet, thereby completely avoiding the problem of continuity altogether.

 

[FOvet]

I actually kept up with Alpha Protocol when I saw the cover story they had in Game Informer magazine several months or so before it came out--I never did get the chance to play that fantastic looking game, but when I read about it, I was excited as hell. it seemed to be exactly the sort of game I could get into, and I wish I'd picked it up when it came out--but alas, financial difficulties and college life struck simultaneously -_-

When you have that many possible endings, I can see why it's pretty much impossible to have that sort of system in place for sequels--but games like Silent Hill, Fallout, or Heavy Rain--which only has a handful of differing endings--they could do it, and make the differences meaningful. But I suspect the pressure to put out a sequel FAST probably has a lot to do with why they don't. That, and time/money.

 

[TheChosen1]

What they need is a small reference with a crazed Enclave officer/scientist in some dingy underground lab with a dead Deathclaw with missing arms and gat. lasers nearby.

 

[BigBoss]

I don't understand why people have such a hard time leaving Enclave behind. No one complains that there is no Unity, for example.

I wish... maybe its just me being a fan of Fallout 1 more than Fallout 2, but I would much rather see the Unity return than the Enclave (I had enough of them for one series). Though New Vegas did an awesome job with the question "How do you portray our last games villains who were utterly destroyed in new game and new environment". They showed what had became of the Unity after the masters downfall (Mutants going East, the forming of the State of Utopitha, a bunch of Super Mutants who still believe in the master and his ideals and can't let go (even though a good majority of them probably know that, especially without the FEV-2, there is chance of restoring the Unity again). The splitting of factions between those who were still loyal to the Master and couldn't let go, to those who had left the past behind and wanted to move on, to Nightkin who just wanted to search for Stealth Boys to aleve their schizophrenic pain.

The Enclave's "post-destruction" story was shown through the Enclave Remnants. A bunch of weathered old men (and women) who all had different ideals about the Enclave. One who couldn't let go, one who wanted to atone for their sins, one who didn't care for the Enclaves leadership but cared for the Enclave as a community, etc. The Enclave Remnants really showed us that, they weren't anything close what we thought they were in Fallout 2 (some kind of American SS). Not every single member of the Enclave was a wastelander hating America loving Frank Horrigan. Its true, most believed in the Enclaves ideals as far as trying to restore the Old America in all its glory, but most probably didn't believe in exterminating millions for some kind of purity, Darwinist belief. To many in the Enclave, restoring America and exterminating wastelanders' probably had nothing to do with eachother, but really didn't want to question orders either, or were afraid to.

It was just bad leadership, plain and simple. A bunch of standard people who truly believed in America and what it stood for being led and taken advantage by a racist dictatorship. Did they (an entire community) deserve to be destroyed for that? Was killing nearly every single one of them really the only way to stop Richardson's plan? Only the Chosen One can truly say so now.

 

[naossano]

It is up to you to decide if the chosen one considered they deserved to die.
You could decide that the melting of the station is just a way to release your village, or to escape yourself.
Or you just prevent them to use the virus for self-preservation, as it would kill everyone, including you.

I also think that, contrary to Fo3, the Enclave in Fo2 is very layered.
There are many people that don't share Richardson vision in Fo2. There are many desertors as well.
This even come as a surprise when you first play the game.

Beside that, yeah, the overall way they handle the Unity/Enclave/BOS/Khans remnants is great.