Would people be interested in contributing to NMA's Fallout 4 and DLC review?

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by The Dutch Ghost, Sep 7, 2016.

  1. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Hello all,

    When the final DLC for Fallout 4 was released, Nuka World, I talked with Hassknecht about if it wasn't time now that No Mutants Allowed did a review on Fallout 4. We missed out on reviewing the game last year when it was released and though people have shared their thoughts and commented on the game here on the forums it is not the same as doing a review that could go on the front page and under 'articles'.

    Hassknecht has played and finished the main game now and the DLCs, and is willing to write a review about it, but we both feel that others on the forum should also be allowed to add their own opinions to the review document.
    We have the following solution in mind, the review Hassknecht will write will be divided in sub topics:
    • Intro.
    • General story/world.
    • Gameplay.
    • Graphics.
    • Music/sound.
    • Replayability.
    • Final thoughts/conclusion.
    Members who would like to participate in reviewing Fallout 4 and the DLCs can add their own pieces to each of these topics, it doesn't matter if it is positive or negative, we are not going to enforce some sort of group thinking. (a lot of people here don't like Fallout 4 so everyone on NMA hates Fallout 4)

    After each of Hassknecht's entries your segment would follow.
    I do ask not to make it to long because if a lot of people want to join this effort and everyone writes one page or more the review would become ridiculously long. Try to be exact and to the point.

    So which of you would be interested in joining the NMA final review on Fallout 4 and its DLCs?

    Contact either me or Hassknecht when you are interested in joining up.
    • [Like] [Like] x 4
  2. Gaddes

    Gaddes Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    May 18, 2010
    The only thing I could add is probably near universal criticism. Fallout 4 is the usual mountain of utterly wasted potential that is sadly held back by Bethesda's piss poor writing, story telling and bland fun house game design.
  3. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    If you want to save time you could frame the review in the format of Bethesda's dialogue:

    Is Fallout 4 stupid?

    All answers lead to "yes" no matter what you choose, just like in the game.
    • [Like] [Like] x 11
  4. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    Diamond city radios playlist is probably the best thing about the game and even it is Ill fit for fallout.
  5. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Well Gaddes, if you can write down your criticism in a well formulated way then there is no reason why you should not speak your mind in the review.
    Just write down properly why you think this is not a very good game.
  6. Mr muggyman 3000

    Mr muggyman 3000 Lover of coffe cups

    May 3, 2016
    Didn't ragemage, and dirtyoldshoe do a in depth review of fallout 4? You should probably ask them to contribute.
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  7. Millim

    Millim Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Orderite [REDACTED]

    Oct 13, 2010
    I would, but I'm undertaking my own review of it.

    But I wouldn't mind contributing still
  8. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Okay, shall I put you on the list Millim?

    I don't know about that Mr muggyman 3000, or at least I have not seen that review myself. Well if both would like to contribute to the review Fallout 4 and all the DLC now that these have been released they are welcome to join.
  9. Ediros

    Ediros Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Feb 4, 2016
    I have ever already written a review of the base game on steam. I can help you out.

    Except Nuka Crap, that I have no intention of playing.
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2016
  10. aenemic

    aenemic Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Jun 4, 2008
    I'd be willing to contribute if I can, though I'm not that great of a writer.
  11. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Than just write about the main game Ediros, that is not a problem.

    It doesn't have to be very elaborate/complex Aenemic, just write a piece you feel reflects/embodies your thoughts on the game.
  12. Ediros

    Ediros Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Feb 4, 2016
    Okay, sorry if it sounds like I am angry. I didn't mean to sound like an ass.

    I covered some parts of Fallout 4 in my review on steam but there is plenty more. I could post bulletpoints here or something.

    Okay, here is an uncut version of my review. I tried to cover as much as I can:

    I decided to rewrite my review, because my previous one was more of a rant than a proper review, so I will try to avoid all the mistakes I have made previous time. With that out of the way, shall we begin?

    Now, first thing I would like to say is that I am fan of Fallout New Vegas and I enjoyed it much more than Fallout 3 for many different reasons, such as: Multiple ways to finish the game, likeable and believable characters, multiple ways to do quests, reputation, karma etc. Overall Fallout New Vegas was supperior to Fallout 3 in many ways and I a regret to inform you that Fallout 4 is nowhere near that level. In fact, I consider Fallout 4 one of the weakest entries in the franchise, even worse than Fallout 3, but I will explain below why.

    I will start of with the fact that Fallout 4 doesn't let you roleplay too much, if at all. You always start of as a concerned father/mother who is looking for his/her son. Now, having a set background wouldn't be bad if it was designed properly, but unfortunately it is not. The player is forced into being a goodie-to-shoes good guy or sarcastic guy. The game does not allow you to play as, for example: Crazy Maniac, Sir talks a lot (can avoid almost every combat, by talking), Evil Emperor, or something in between. You can decide to not do a quest, but that is it. Either way it is still waiting for you and you can pick it up at any time. Of course there are times when you can be little bit evil, but they are far and between. So re-playability and role-playing were cut down a lot, which for RPG fans is a great deal, especially since most of them prefer to play as a someone they imagine rather than someone designed for them.

    Of course there are games that are exceptions such as: Mass Effect or Witcher 3, but those games have got preset protagonist, while Fallout franchise never had one. Of course you would be: Vault Dweller, Chosen One, Lone Wanderer, Courier, but those are just titles and it is up to player to decide who they are and how they act. In Fallout 4 we do not get that freedom.

    Now onto the characters. Most of the NPCs in the game are boring as hell. Even companions are hardly interesting and the way the react to your actions and how long it takes is poorly designed. Foe example, there is Curie, who you can impress by being nice, siding with Railroad, etc. But even after I did many things like that it takes ages to romance her, so no easy way with it I am afraid. The only companions I like so far are Dogmeat and Cadsworth, but other than that I want to shoot some of them in the face.

    And here we get to another stupidity of Fallout 4- essential characters, they are almost everywhere. Basically, You are connected to the quest, I can't kill you. It breaks immersion and is annoying when there are some NPCs, like Mama Murphy who you want to shoot in the face, but you can't. The only thing you can do about her is to build her a chair, somewhere where no one will ever find her.

    Now let's talk a bit about character progression and how inferior it is compared to Fallout NV or even Fallout 3. In both of those games you had to pick your special carefully, otherwise your build would be flawed and you would suffer a lot. They were RPGs that punished players for making stupid builds and mistakes. You could not become a Jack Of All trades because levels and perks were limited so you had to be careful what to choose. In Fallout 4 though, there isn't such thing. You can become 10 across all special, or even 11 if you pick boobleheads just by leveling up. There are very few builds that will make player miserable, such as the one focused on Charisma so it much less punishing than previous games. It is more streamlined, which for me is not a good thing.

    Anyway, as you level up you can either boost your special or take a perk, which sounds good on paper but in practise it takes away from the game, because the most important thing in this game is to get you damage and let you build weapons. Other builds are much less optimal. It wouldn't be that bad, but because Bethesda cut out Skills, karma and reputation there almost no alternate ways to do quests. The only instance that required high int and nothing more was found by me after 40 hours of playing the game, which is just bad.

    Now onto the quests and main storyline. The main quest takes the player through the ruins of commonwealth in order to find Shaun, the son of the Protagonist. Unfortunately it is quite predictable, and does not allow too much flexibility. In the end we find him and we have to decide which faction to support. So the main quest is bad, but it has never been great in most Bethesda games or even the most important. Side quests were the most important part of playing Fallout games. For example in New Vegas, there was a quest in Goodsprings, where you could side with either the town or the powder gangers. Doesn't seem impressive, does it? HOWEVER, you could join one of those sides whenever you wanted or even back stab the one you supported, for example: Side with powder gangers, but lay mines on the road and kill them all before they come to the town or just murder them after everything ends so you could take all that sweet loot.

    And once again Fallout 4 disappoints in that regard. 90% of the quests are like this: GO THERE, KILL RAIDERS/RESCUE SOMEONE, GO BACK. The amount of radiant quests is staggering and quests that are not radiant still disappointed me most of the time. The issue with them is once again is that there are very few alternate ways to them. The only good quest so far for me is: Silver Shroud, a bit cliche and still not that great, but I enjoyed it. Unfortunately I can not say the same about most of the other quests.

    Before we go into combat though, I want to pinpoint a tiny detail, which is no level cap. Sounds awesome doesn't it? Unfortunately it once again is poorly designed system that does not work well with the franchise. This game features way too many radiant quest that are meant as nothing more, but a grindfest. This game is full of grinding, grinding and grinding, otherwise your character is just weak and it still not done that well, because you receive little experience for most of the quest and it would require hundreds of them to get you above level 100, which just plain stupid.

    Now, let's talk about the combat and difficulty. I have to admit it is one of few things Bethesda managed to improve. It feels much more fluid and natural, although it is still nothing incredible, quite mediocre I would say. It is still a step up from Fallout 3 and NV, though. Unfortunately the same cannot be said about difficulty. As I was playing with my level 250 character (cheats, I wanted to verify something), I came across a super mutant suicider with level 250, the same as my character. I think you understand what that means? Level Scaling and Bullet Sponge Enemies are the bane of this game. How is it that .50 caliber sniper rifle does nothing against him, even though I hit it in the head??? It is really frustrating. And the game is full of them + legendary enemies are basically buffed up versions of them. Also the different levels of difficulty are like this: you deal less damage, take more damage, enemies deal more damage, enemies take less damage. Just bad.

    Right, legendary enemies are enemies that spawn randomly in the game. Whenever you kill one of them it drops an item with additional effect, such as: Penetrating laser musket (ignores 30% of armor or something like this). Sounds good on paper, but most of the time you get something like this: Ghoul Hunter Gamma Gun (Deals 50% more damage to ghouls) with radiation? So it does nothing against them, in fact it should even heal them more, which makes no sense. Sure not all enemies scale, but it is still poorly designed system, with way too many flaws.

    And not, lets talk about a world a little. It was supposed to be fun, exciting, but it turned out like Skyrim, or maybe even worse. The world is rather small (11 minutes jogging from one end to another), but is filled with tons of places to discover, loot etc. Unfortunately you get to the point where gathering resources and looking through all those containers becomes a chore, since you got so much stuff you do not really know, what to do with it? Foe example, I have got over 1000 bullets .45 caliber and I doubt I will ever shoot out all of them. Early on, you want to explore, but then it is just annoying, mostly because you need a ton of stuff to craft, modify your weapons, upgrade your armor etc.

    Now, lets talk about weapons, crafting and armor. It is great that you can modify your weapons, power armor and such. It feels natural, they also completely removed weapon degradation so you don't need to worry about carrying 10 rifles, so you could repair your favorite one. However, that lead to the fact that the most important aspect is crafting and materials + armor and weapon inflation. The game becomes too easy with couple of mods to hunting rifle. You waste so much resources on crafting it is not even funny and the game is rather hard without it, so you can't really skip it.

    A now Power Armor, it is genuinely bad. First of all, why are there fusion cores in game, when T-51 onward didn't need them? I can accept T-45, but later models, especially the enclave power armor? It makes no sense. We can let it slide for the sake of gameplay. However, what I can't accept it that Bethesda used Damage Resistance not Damage Threshold. It means that our power armor gets damaged, by molerats, flies, dogs, pot shoots etc. I can not like this, it just stupid. On top of that we get power armor very early in the game with minigun and kill our first deathclaw. You can easily play the entire game, without exiting power armor too much, all you need is 9 int perk and luck 2 – scrounger.

    Both graphics and music are on decent level. There were a couple of moments when I genuinely enjoyed the game, but the benefits end here.

    In the end we get small, boring sandbox, with bland characters, terrible plot and being Over Powered way too quickly.

    Disappointment of the year for me, wait for the mods and all the DLC.

    Last edited: Sep 7, 2016
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  13. Chud

    Chud Still Mildly Glowing

    Jun 8, 2015
    I think I could add things towards gameplay and possible replay value. I'm currently doing a game in survival mode, and trying to play it as mainly an evil character. There's things I'm finding that are interesting and frustrating, along with some issues with how survival mode works as a whole.
  14. Theinnerfish

    Theinnerfish Storytelling skeleton

    Jul 25, 2015
    If there was anything Fallout 3 did better than Fallout 1-2 it was the quest design. However with Fallout 4 this' not the case anymore.

    In older Bethesda games (especially in Oblivion and Fallout 3) coming across a quest or dungeon was an organic thing. For example you'd meet some guy who's high as hell and he'd talk about trees. Later on when you're exploring the place he mentioned, you'd find The Oasis. You'd pick a classic music radio, find the old lady who was broadcasting it and she'd send you to Vault 92. A damsel in distress would ask you send a message to her family and there you'd start the Blood Ties. Even though as an old fan i was rightfully annoyed by the writing of these quests i had to accept that overall quest design and pacing were better than any AAA rpg to date.

    Every single quest and place you'd find in Fallout 3 was hand crafted and the game would never artificially lead you anywhere. However Fallout 4 shoves radiant quests in your throat the minute you get out the vault. The player character is a pre-war survivor who knows nothing about this new world and Preston sends (or more like a random settler sends) you to kill every single raider in Corvega (which is practically a castle).

    It's hard explain but Fallout 4 takes away the initiative from its player. It randomly chooses destinations and marks it in your pip-boy which kills the sand-box freedom that makes Bethesda games so famous. This turns the exploration into a hassle because the player is always under pressure to complete yet another radiant quest. This' a severe problem because Fallout 4 utterly depends on radiant quests.

    Voiced dialog and more "personal" quests is also another thing keeping the player from explore freely. The dialog never let's you forget that your character is feeling utmost urgency to find his son but some random person sends you to exterminate every single person in a (raider) settlement. As if Fallout 4 is undecided about if it wants to be a purely story driven or a sand-box game.

    When i look at Fallout 4 i can see the potential. It has the best game-world i have ever seen. It still has great quests like Silver Shroud or Diamond City Blues though they lack in quantity. Its game-play vastly upgraded etc. However Bethesda dared to try new things for wrong reasons.

    In Fallout 4 it's evident that Bethesda treats it's customers the way they treat their share-holders. Everything they do is by the book to guarantee mass sales: settlement building, crafting, 30 years old white male protagonist with military background, a dramatic, simple and emotional main story like saving your child, patriotic setting, improved shooting mechanics and few other things.
  15. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    >Fallout 3 did quest design better than one or two.

    Yeah linear nonsense quests are so much better designed than quests with multiple outcomes and where a NPC's reactions and motivations make sense.
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  16. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    I would and I feel this classic format more appealing. There's lot's of controversial topics even in NMA case worth talking about. Yes, mainly the sound and music but also gameplay elements like gunplay. Recently finished Nuka World so the memory is still fresh and Vault Tec Workshop was really memorable. (in a bad way)

    Here's a overview of Nuka World's level design which will evolve as we proceed to doing a full review. It's really hard to write about this piece of actual trolling coming from bethesda.
    This is it, the big last word on Fallout 4 from Bethesda. The possible savior, the last frontier, the last chance to rise in the eyes of disappointed. Did they succeded? Neither ‘Yes’ nor ‘No’. More like they answered "F U" the criticism about not being able to befriend with the raiders and the whole ‘theme park’ vibe of Fallout 4. Why F U? First things first.

    The first thing you notice after arriving Nuka World is world design. It's barren and incomplete. It does looks incomplete on purpose, to say New Vegas fans that Bethesda could do even less job even in level design and make more beautiful and appealing wasteland. Of course you can. Except it's not what it wants to be, after F4 and FH it's just amateur modder's map with some hidden holes to fall through. One of them is still hidden after arriving on the still working monorail. The Park itself does look like what you expect from an ordinary disneyland but smaller. And yes you have arcade house and still working attractions but you can only ride a ferris wheel while risking your life falling through another hole and play some arcades but that's about all the fun. The Park's layout is not fun gameplay wise. It's cluttered, yes but most action placed and directed on one plane. The small exception is Galactic Zone here which add a second floor to walk on and dominate raging bots from above with pulse grenades and Nuka Quantum facility which let's you shoot mirelurk queen from the roof. World design suffers from immersion breaking at one but big point which can be qualified as a trolling message adressed to anyone who criticized inconsistency in world building - the residents of all other five zones should be either eliminated before or there should be no raiders in the first place. Gatorclaws (I know, right?) infinitely cloned 210 years should seek expansion and the only clear way foward is to raiders' 'camp', for example; Bots are too close to the raider's hideout to being foolishly unable to recognize the threat of suspicous armed people in strange dirty clothes, et cetera...
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2016
  17. Theinnerfish

    Theinnerfish Storytelling skeleton

    Jul 25, 2015
    It certainly better than going into a hub and asking randomly "if they have anything to do" or being dragged into problems because they need an outsider. Also i plainly said that writing is off in Fallout 3 still its quests almost always have different outcomes btw.
  18. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I didn't have that idea Ediros.

    Okay, so far we have Millim, aenemic, and Chud who would like to contribute to the review, and dirtyoldshoe is okay with that we add his thoughts to it.
    Any more people who would like to participate?
  19. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    I have a few thoughts on the game that I would like to contribute.
  20. Hobojoe

    Hobojoe First time out of the vault

    Sep 5, 2016
    Most of Fallout 3's quests came down to you stumbling across someone who shoved a job/problem into your face, I'd say it was a rare moment indeed for anything beyond this.

    The high guy offering a hint on Oasis for example is no different to Harold mentioning Mariposa, only Harold did it in a more subtle manner. I honestly dont think Bethesda pulled off anything special in the quest department in comparison to 1 and 2.