Writers corner.

I think you guys don't understand what a cliche is... You're giving the notion way too much credit. When I say my friend is a chuunibyou who thrives on cliches, I MEAN it. I love him, but his head's filled with flighty bullshit. He came to me plenty of times with his own..... let's call it "writing"..... and he would explain his premise to me, which I'd accept with an open mind. But we'd quickly find him falling upon cliches left and right. Yes, they say that there are no new stories anymore, that everything's been told in one form or another, but that doesn't make it automatically cliche just to TELL a story. But his WAS cliche. A fanfic where the characters will grow because some sagely old man "unlocks their potential" is a bullshit cliche. A story where the lamest line ever uttered is spoken with total seriousness, without the self-awareness to put a pair of sunglasses on while saying it, because they SERIOUSLY think it's actually acting cool, is fucking godawful cliche. The hero triumphing over the villain is cliche, sure; love conquering all is pretty cliche, okay; plot armor in general gets really contrived and cliche, granted. But I'm talking about REAL cliche. Not just "done over and over again." Fucking overdone to the extreme.

Toying with cliches and exploiting the audience's expectations of cliches isn't being cliche, it's using it to your advantage. I'm talking about SINCERELY being cliche, and I just can't stand it.
 
now I'm curious what your friend is writing :D

A friend of mine has very good ideas, most of them are short-story concepts, but unfortunately, he refuses to write... it's just not his thing. He has asked me to draw comic books of his ideas, but damn... I got more than enough preparing myself to pieces over my own comic book idea... His ideas are very surreal, which is why they best fit a short story. Besides, he's one of those guys who love to tell their own ideas, but lose ALL interest when you tell him yours, visibly, sighing, looking around, wanting to change the subject -.- So, he can draw/write it down himself
 
I think you guys don't understand what a cliche is... You're giving the notion way too much credit. When I say my friend is a chuunibyou who thrives on cliches, I MEAN it. I love him, but his head's filled with flighty bullshit. He came to me plenty of times with his own..... let's call it "writing"..... and he would explain his premise to me, which I'd accept with an open mind. But we'd quickly find him falling upon cliches left and right. Yes, they say that there are no new stories anymore, that everything's been told in one form or another, but that doesn't make it automatically cliche just to TELL a story. But his WAS cliche. A fanfic where the characters will grow because some sagely old man "unlocks their potential" is a bullshit cliche. A story where the lamest line ever uttered is spoken with total seriousness, without the self-awareness to put a pair of sunglasses on while saying it, because they SERIOUSLY think it's actually acting cool, is fucking godawful cliche.

Is he an anime fan?
 
Anime fandom is where terms like "otaku" and "chuunibyou" come from, so yes. It's not what makes him a chuunibyou, however. I'm just as much of an anime fan as he is (minus the otaku model collection) but I find chuunibyou behavior repulsive..... when it's not being poked fun at in a story for the audience's amusement, anyway.
 
I like some anime and I have been exposed to the fandm enough to dislike them, but I don't know what chuunibyou means. Is that like an alternative of "weaboo"? If so I knew a lot of those in Uni.
Also I remember that the first mental iterations of my story started in highschool were I was pretty much an idiot that also filled it to the brim with cliches, but as time went one I started making the story weirder and deconstructive. Altho I still don't know if it's gonna be any good, guess I'll have to complete the first comic episodes first and get people's opinions.
 
The hero triumphing over the villain is cliche, sure; love conquering all is pretty cliche, okay; plot armor in general gets really contrived and cliche, granted. But I'm talking about REAL cliche. Not just "done over and over again." Fucking overdone to the extreme.

I would say this is less the realm of cliche and more like, ready-made-plots. It's like the Monomyth story structure: if done typically, it requires no creativity. You only need to interject characters and locations into where they're needed, like some kind of story where the square peg goes into the square hole and so on. Your friend sees a cliche and that's all he knows so he unknowingly makes stories that are just like every other fucking story ever made.
 
Are there many settings that are Renaissance-Fantasy? The setting I'm currently toying with is just about that in terms of technological development and the societal style in some locations, and I was wondering if there were some books or games with that kind of setting that I could draw some inspiration from or at least try to avoid inadvertently ripping off.

I'm also finding that I prefer straight up Fantasy (Medieval Fantasy etc ) to Science Fiction, as you can have a lot more variation and creative settings, and you can go a lot more places with a story than with Science Fiction.
 
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or at least try to avoid inadvertently ripping off.

Keep dreaming :D
I have long since given up on that hope, just yesterday I had to watch as several of my brilliant lil ideas popped up in a computer game "oh ffs.. " but by now I'm used to it :D
Also, I sometimes become over-sensitive to it, like I want to play with longevity and unlimited telekinesis (magic), how done-to-death is that? But also - why should I not be allowed to do my take on those subjects?
Forgive me, Katsuhiro Otomo D': I swear! I am merely fascinated by the prospect of "human + magic + real world" D':
Not that he invented those concepts either, which is also sortof the point :D
 
I like some anime and I have been exposed to the fandm enough to dislike them, but I don't know what chuunibyou means. Is that like an alternative of "weaboo"? If so I knew a lot of those in Uni.
"Chuunibyou" is a more obscure term that unlike, say, the various "-dere" forms, but similar to "hikikomori", is not necessarily tied directly to anime fandom but Japanese culture itself. Translated literally, "chuunibyou" means "middle school 2nd year syndrome", because it described a type of personality that's "stuck in the 8th grade". It was popularized in the game, anime, and manga variations of the story Steins;Gate, where the main character was identified as a chuunibyou, and he would just strike dramatic poses for no reason, whip out his cell phone to pretend he's talking to someone important about a conspiracy that doesn't exist, spout nonsensical phrases that don't mean anything because "they're cool", and so on. The closest Western equivalent I can think of is "man boy", where you're perpetually in a mental state of a child who thinks really dumb things are cool. That's more or less what a chuunibyou is, and that's what many (non-Japanese) people actually mean when they call someone an "otaku" in a derogatory fashion, when in fact being otaku just means you really, really, REALLY love some particular subject to the point of obsession. You can be a wrestling otaku, a firearms otaku, a moe otaku, a conspiracies otaku, etc. Anyway, I'd consider myself just as much of an anime fan as my friend, but I'm not an otaku to the degree that he is, and I have a fierce aversion to chuunibyou tendencies, unlike him. Anime fandom in general is split in that fashion, and if you found that you didn't like it, you more than likely found one of those groups that deviate into nonsensical behavior.

The hero triumphing over the villain is cliche, sure; love conquering all is pretty cliche, okay; plot armor in general gets really contrived and cliche, granted. But I'm talking about REAL cliche. Not just "done over and over again." Fucking overdone to the extreme.
I would say this is less the realm of cliche and more like, ready-made-plots. It's like the Monomyth story structure: if done typically, it requires no creativity. You only need to interject characters and locations into where they're needed, like some kind of story where the square peg goes into the square hole and so on. Your friend sees a cliche and that's all he knows so he unknowingly makes stories that are just like every other fucking story ever made.
Eh, close, but not quite. I'd say that your description IS spot on, but he takes it a few steps further. It's not JUST using cookie-cutter story points without much of any creativity, it's also the meat on the bones that suffers from aforementioned chuunibyou behavior.

For example, I was describing a scene to my friend which was essentially a conversation between the villain and the hero, and admittedly that itself is cliche. But the scene would have the payoff that the good guy would assert his defiance agains the bad guy, but not save the day once he did so, but rather simply reaffirm that he's up shit creek without a paddle. He's in the belly of the beast now, and he's fucked. Spitting in the bad guy's face is NOT a good idea, and he's only doing it because he's got a character quirk that makes him oblivious to rather obvious things. The point of the scene was exposition for the reader that would reinforce that the situation is hopeless for the protagonist, even though the quirk would result in a hilarious moment that any reader familiar with the story would react, "Why didn't I see that coming? That's clever!" But no, my friend stops me as I'm about to reach that point in the scene, and finishes my sentence for me, putting words into my character's mouth that sounds straight out of a shitty crime drama, sunglasses lameness cue and all. If I remember right, it was some play-on-words phrase about his friends being weights as he scales a mountain, and that he'd bear the weight and get stronger. Something lame like that. I almost physically facepalmed right in front of him because of how dumbfounded that expression left me. The character wasn't supposed to say a cool one-liner and look good despite the odds, he was supposed to look like an idiot, and be followed up by a reminder that he's still very fucked. But in my friend's mind, this is where the good guy makes a cheeky remark, because it's cool, and it plays on words to make him look witty, and probably gets followed by a deus ex machina "save the day" plot device of some kind. Because, y'know, that's cool.

It's one thing to follow an unoriginal story structure, but it's something else to follow an unoriginal story structure and whip out cliche card after cliche card. ~_~

But really, I'm more alarmed by his spelling and formatting errors, since I was an Art Major for 4 years and he was an English Major for 6. <_<
 
Does anyone here know how to read spanish? I am gonna be doing some proofreading of my story in the coming week, and while asking friends is very helpful it's good to also have the input of people that don't know you that much so they can be more impartial. Translating it to english would take a while.
 
Nope. And it's ridiculous for me considering all of my family speaks Spanish (half Spanish-American).

I'd suggest trying to find a translator online, but most of the translators end up screwing everything up, and secondly the Spanish language differs highly depending on where the speakers are from. For example here in New Mexico, there are several Spanish words which translate to regular things, however end up translating to insults when spoken to Spanish Speakers from Mexico, Central America, Puerto Rico, etc. etc.
 
Dude, if I google translate the script it would be rendered into non sense. I prefere translating what I have at the moment by hand, but 100 pages takes time. And then there is still more to come.
 
I like some anime and I have been exposed to the fandm enough to dislike them, but I don't know what chuunibyou means. Is that like an alternative of "weaboo"? If so I knew a lot of those in Uni.
"Chuunibyou" is a more obscure term that unlike, say, the various "-dere" forms, but similar to "hikikomori", is not necessarily tied directly to anime fandom but Japanese culture itself. Translated literally, "chuunibyou" means "middle school 2nd year syndrome", because it described a type of personality that's "stuck in the 8th grade". It was popularized in the game, anime, and manga variations of the story Steins;Gate, where the main character was identified as a chuunibyou, and he would just strike dramatic poses for no reason, whip out his cell phone to pretend he's talking to someone important about a conspiracy that doesn't exist, spout nonsensical phrases that don't mean anything because "they're cool", and so on. The closest Western equivalent I can think of is "man boy", where you're perpetually in a mental state of a child who thinks really dumb things are cool. That's more or less what a chuunibyou is, and that's what many (non-Japanese) people actually mean when they call someone an "otaku" in a derogatory fashion, when in fact being otaku just means you really, really, REALLY love some particular subject to the point of obsession. You can be a wrestling otaku, a firearms otaku, a moe otaku, a conspiracies otaku, etc. Anyway, I'd consider myself just as much of an anime fan as my friend, but I'm not an otaku to the degree that he is, and I have a fierce aversion to chuunibyou tendencies, unlike him. Anime fandom in general is split in that fashion, and if you found that you didn't like it, you more than likely found one of those groups that deviate into nonsensical behavior.

The hero triumphing over the villain is cliche, sure; love conquering all is pretty cliche, okay; plot armor in general gets really contrived and cliche, granted. But I'm talking about REAL cliche. Not just "done over and over again." Fucking overdone to the extreme.
I would say this is less the realm of cliche and more like, ready-made-plots. It's like the Monomyth story structure: if done typically, it requires no creativity. You only need to interject characters and locations into where they're needed, like some kind of story where the square peg goes into the square hole and so on. Your friend sees a cliche and that's all he knows so he unknowingly makes stories that are just like every other fucking story ever made.
Eh, close, but not quite. I'd say that your description IS spot on, but he takes it a few steps further. It's not JUST using cookie-cutter story points without much of any creativity, it's also the meat on the bones that suffers from aforementioned chuunibyou behavior.

For example, I was describing a scene to my friend which was essentially a conversation between the villain and the hero, and admittedly that itself is cliche. But the scene would have the payoff that the good guy would assert his defiance agains the bad guy, but not save the day once he did so, but rather simply reaffirm that he's up shit creek without a paddle. He's in the belly of the beast now, and he's fucked. Spitting in the bad guy's face is NOT a good idea, and he's only doing it because he's got a character quirk that makes him oblivious to rather obvious things. The point of the scene was exposition for the reader that would reinforce that the situation is hopeless for the protagonist, even though the quirk would result in a hilarious moment that any reader familiar with the story would react, "Why didn't I see that coming? That's clever!" But no, my friend stops me as I'm about to reach that point in the scene, and finishes my sentence for me, putting words into my character's mouth that sounds straight out of a shitty crime drama, sunglasses lameness cue and all. If I remember right, it was some play-on-words phrase about his friends being weights as he scales a mountain, and that he'd bear the weight and get stronger. Something lame like that. I almost physically facepalmed right in front of him because of how dumbfounded that expression left me. The character wasn't supposed to say a cool one-liner and look good despite the odds, he was supposed to look like an idiot, and be followed up by a reminder that he's still very fucked. But in my friend's mind, this is where the good guy makes a cheeky remark, because it's cool, and it plays on words to make him look witty, and probably gets followed by a deus ex machina "save the day" plot device of some kind. Because, y'know, that's cool.

It's one thing to follow an unoriginal story structure, but it's something else to follow an unoriginal story structure and whip out cliche card after cliche card. ~_~

But really, I'm more alarmed by his spelling and formatting errors, since I was an Art Major for 4 years and he was an English Major for 6. <_<



Why are you so obsessed with things being cliches? Two characters talking to one another is not cliche.
 
I think SnapSlav is equating Archetypes and tropes with cliches... that's rather short sighted.
Because if we go by that the only way of not writting cliches would be to make a book written in complete gibberish. Go to Indesign and click on the Insert Stock text option, extend it for 200 pages. The least cliche book ever.
 
Why are you so obsessed with things being cliches? Two characters talking to one another is not cliche.
I'm not obsessed at all. I'm simplifying a description of a much more complex and disheartening method that I observe to be rampant and systemic. Using the term "cliche" as a derogatory slur multiple times in several sentence back to back is building upon a premise that I am solidifying as I bring up more examples, it's not obsession over the simple notion of "cliche", as if they're tangibly "out to get me".

For example, what Tolkien did a looooooooooong time ago was very creative and original, even if the overall premise was paradigm good versus obligatory evil. The structure and presentation was completely original, and it all started from his study of language, as an exercise of creating his own languages, which built their own world to necessitate the creation and differentiation of those languages. It's the most basic concept of world building as a story process goes, but he was the first to do what he did. MOST fantasy since then has been much less original, and largely borrowed either unwittingly or deliberately from Tolkien's works. I'm not against that, of course, but there comes a point where inspiration and borrowing and following trends crosses a line into stagnation and irritating repetition into predictability, and where "unoriginal" is the lightest criticism that can be levied against it.

If you think I'm obsessed with cliches, you haven't been following my overarching point.

And yes, 2 characters, when they're the main character and the primary villain, for the sake of revealing through exposition the nefarious plots concocted by said villain in a practically monologue fashion, IS cliche. I never said what made it cliche was the simple act of them speaking. You misread it as such.
 
I wonder when will come a moment when everything that has been told is made into a cliche. Everything that's already been told is a trope, so that would be a next step in evolution.
 
I wonder when will come a moment when everything that has been told is made into a cliche. Everything that's already been told is a trope, so that would be a next step in evolution.

We'll add this to things-bound-to-happen-in-a-truly-infinite-space!

(cus as we all know, probability is about a chance against a fixed maximum, and in infinity, any chance becomes incomparable to a non-existing maximum, making everything with a probability above absolute 0 almost a guarantee to occur at least once. go infinity! okay, back on topic!)
 
I wonder when will come a moment when everything that has been told is made into a cliche. Everything that's already been told is a trope, so that would be a next step in evolution.

We'll add this to things-bound-to-happen-in-a-truly-infinite-space!

(cus as we all know, probability is about a chance against a fixed maximum, and in infinity, any chance becomes incomparable to a non-existing maximum, making everything with a probability above absolute 0 almost a guarantee to occur at least once. go infinity! okay, back on topic!)


I like this post. I truly do.
 
Is TVtropes the only way to check if your plot/hystory/ect is already done? Or there is another way? It takes too much time to found what I want in TVTropes.
 
I wonder when will come a moment when everything that has been told is made into a cliche. Everything that's already been told is a trope, so that would be a next step in evolution.

We'll add this to things-bound-to-happen-in-a-truly-infinite-space!

(cus as we all know, probability is about a chance against a fixed maximum, and in infinity, any chance becomes incomparable to a non-existing maximum, making everything with a probability above absolute 0 almost a guarantee to occur at least once. go infinity! okay, back on topic!)
I like this post. I truly do.
I would like to say that this post is mind blowing..... but then that would be cliche.
*ZING*
XD

Is TVtropes the only way to check if your plot/hystory/ect is already done? Or there is another way? It takes too much time to found what I want in TVTropes.
Well yes, there's lots of "other ways", but I wouldn't know of any "at the touch of your fingertips" that are immediate. It could be your lifelong study to track all forms of literature and art, but that's not a very instant-gratification resource, which I suppose is what you want.
 
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