According to The Escapist's Extra Credits...

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Are you trolling? Really that's the whole fucking bloody point of roleplaying games, you make a choice it has consequences.
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But I don't have a choice. Every 'choice' is the same; whoever you side with, they send you off to murder your way across the Mohave. Only the NCR let you spare the Brotherhood (so I'm told; I don't remember ever seeing that option. Might have been bugged).

This is not a choice. A Choice would have been "these factions will play a role in the final battle, and you are advised to deal with them." The reason that is a choice is there is always a Third Choice - to ignore them.

Yeah, I am aware that FO3 doesn't let you 'ignore' the Brotherhood. However, Fallout 3 is essentially "Brotherhood vs Enclave". The Brotherhood don't order you to wipe out Paradise Falls if you don't want to, or force you to slay the AntAgonizer in Cantebury commons. New Vegas, on the other hand, did not give me the option to side with the Brotherhood - I was forced to destroy them. Again, that may well have been one of the several thouand bugs that plague the game, but the fact is it is NOT a 'fact' of Roleplay that you are forced to do stupid shit that has no bearing on how you have behaved up to that point, let alone what you want to do.


As to the Amnesia thing... well, it doesn't make sense to me that the Courier doesn't know the Mohave. Even if he wasn't though, why is he still oblivious about the politics of the region? The NCR do exist outside the Mohave, as do several other groups (although I realise that might depend on what the 'canonical' endings to Fallout 2 are).

Furthermore, is there ever any speech options that suggest you are from somewhere else? Do we have comments like "this place reminds me of New Reno" or "We have Deathclaws where I'm from too..." because I don't remember ever seeing them. If there are, please do correct me.
 
Only the NCR let you spare the Brotherhood
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And the Yes Man. I've heard that's possible with Mr. House too. Are you sure you're not playing a corrupted version of the game? That sounds pretty weird, New Vegas has more varied choices than any other game I've played in almost a decade.

Only Vampire and Arcanum come close, really.
 
I don't remember exactly but, I think Mr. House also orders you to wipe out the Brotherhood, but you can solve things peacefully.

But please correct me if I'm wrong, 'cause I never really finished this quest, when he told me to do that I didn't even go there, I just went with Yes-Man.
 
Briosafreak said:
I've heard that's possible with Mr. House too..
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It was planned early on but cut pretty soon. There's some quest states/phases for that still in the game files I think, but there's no dialogue, nor any other evidence of a similar option. I think there's a mod that restores it anyway by splicing dialogue. As for having to kill the brotherhood if siding with House and Legion.. it's probably annoying, but it fits. Ideologically those factions can be nothing but opposed.
 
Jasan Quinn said:
Furthermore, is there ever any speech options that suggest you are from somewhere else? Do we have comments like "this place reminds me of New Reno" or "We have Deathclaws where I'm from too..." because I don't remember ever seeing them. If there are, please do correct me.
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In Novac there is singer from New Reno hidding from mr bishop,
There is dialogue option that our courier states that he/she saw him in New Reno doing performance.
Also ,if courier is male and got"lady killer" perk there is dialogue option to state that he got some girl pregnant and left her ( that Bastard!)But i don't remember to who it was.

So, as you can see with these in-game evidences, courier does NOT have amnesia.
 
Jasan Quinn said:
But I don't have a choice. Every 'choice' is the same; whoever you side with, they send you off to murder your way across the Mohave. Only the NCR let you spare the Brotherhood (so I'm told; I don't remember ever seeing that option. Might have been bugged).

This is not a choice. A Choice would have been "these factions will play a role in the final battle, and you are advised to deal with them." The reason that is a choice is there is always a Third Choice - to ignore them.
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Even if only the NCR can make peace with the Brotherhood then that is a choice. You chose which faction to side with, so you should have to live with that decision.

I'd be more pissed if you can get a peaceful outcome with all factions if all factions offer the same path through the game where are the consequences?
 
Jasan Quinn said:
But I don't have a choice. Every 'choice' is the same; whoever you side with, they send you off to murder your way across the Mohave. Only the NCR let you spare the Brotherhood (so I'm told; I don't remember ever seeing that option. Might have been bugged).

This is not a choice. A Choice would have been "these factions will play a role in the final battle, and you are advised to deal with them." The reason that is a choice is there is always a Third Choice - to ignore them.

Yeah, I am aware that FO3 doesn't let you 'ignore' the Brotherhood. However, Fallout 3 is essentially "Brotherhood vs Enclave". The Brotherhood don't order you to wipe out Paradise Falls if you don't want to, or force you to slay the AntAgonizer in Cantebury commons. New Vegas, on the other hand, did not give me the option to side with the Brotherhood - I was forced to destroy them. Again, that may well have been one of the several thouand bugs that plague the game, but the fact is it is NOT a 'fact' of Roleplay that you are forced to do stupid shit that has no bearing on how you have behaved up to that point, let alone what you want to do.
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I think you are a bit confused. The choice IS there. You don't want to blow up the BoS? Then you have the choice to...side with someone else. Just like in FO3 the "BoS vs Enclave" plot forces you to side with the Brotherhood in NV the House/Legion plot forces you to destroy the Brotherhood. In FO3 you have no other options, in FO:NV you do.

Also ,if courier is male and got"lady killer" perk there is dialogue option to state that he got some girl pregnant and left her ( that Bastard!)But i don't remember to who it was.
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The son of the Mysterious Stranger, the Lonesome Drifter.
 
AWildmann said:
I don't remember exactly but, I think Mr. House also orders you to wipe out the Brotherhood, but you can solve things peacefully.

But please correct me if I'm wrong, 'cause I never really finished this quest, when he told me to do that I didn't even go there, I just went with Yes-Man.
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It was originally planned for there to be a peaceful option but it was cut from the final version. Mr. House refuses a diplomatic solution to the Brotherhood threat.
 
Well, as far as I know, there are two ways to "blow" the BoS. The first and most obvious one is to kill everyone..... The second is that you secretly destroy their source of power. This makes them go away, abandoning the bunker. In both cases, you have successfully done the job for House and the Legion, just that in one case you don't kill them off.
 
pall said:
Jasan Quinn said:
Furthermore, is there ever any speech options that suggest you are from somewhere else? Do we have comments like "this place reminds me of New Reno" or "We have Deathclaws where I'm from too..." because I don't remember ever seeing them. If there are, please do correct me.
Click to expand...

In Novac there is singer from New Reno hidding from mr bishop,
There is dialogue option that our courier states that he/she saw him in New Reno doing performance.
Also ,if courier is male and got"lady killer" perk there is dialogue option to state that he got some girl pregnant and left her ( that Bastard!)But i don't remember to who it was.

So, as you can see with these in-game evidences, courier does NOT have amnesia.
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Ah yes, I remember that now... I always assumed the former was a lie to try and carry favour with the guy. The latter I hadn't heard.
 
Plot is an overrated aspect of writing and story, especially in games, there is a reason a lot of modern fiction has abandoned traditional plot structures, its really not that important, what is important is what the writing does on the way. Does it create a believable and interesting world? Does it is create good characters? Is it logically consistent? Are there interesting things happening? Are good ideas presented? Is there interesting use of language?

Fallout 3 is basically terrible at all of this things. New Vegas is generally good at them by video game standards.

Also the courier having no background good and important. I've had couriers that are female cyberpunk tinkers, rugged mountain men, delusional wannabe space man superheroes, idealistic young medical students, sleazy kung fu fighting criminals, and commando badasses. If you are given too much background it restricts what you character can be, most of the above would make no sense for someone who spent their whole life in a vault, but work fine for a fairly anonymous character who was just looking for work.
 
That, and the only requirement for being a courier in the world of Fallout is pretty much being able to defend yourself from all the stuff that want to kill you in order to arrive at your destination alive. It's the perfect job for almost every single type of character build save a squishy guy/gal with no weapon skills, and fittingly such person will have a very hard time surviving the actual game until they get help in the form of companions (I made such as character and just imagined Benny and his goons killed his bodyguards).

Also, it's very possible the Courier never went to the Mojave. Or maybe he did, you do not have to take the (few IIRC) dialog options where you ask for directions and lore. And as a courier, he would not stay long in one place, justifying the fact nobody apparently knows him/her.

Fallout 3 doesn't offer all those options; you must be 19 years old, you must come from the Vault where you only trained with a BB gun and not energy weapons (Vault 101 seemingly doesn't even have them), you must be in for your dad for the plot to make any kind of sense (In NV you can be in to get revenge, to support a faction, for personal power, or just to finish your job if you side with House). Later, you must support the Brotherhood, you must pass by Little Lamplight (there never was a more obnoxious and senseless ''town'' in video game history, imo), you must send yourself or Lyons to their death in that damn purifier even if you have Power Armor and three companions immune to radiation, and yes I know I can pay 10 dollars to fix that utter stupidity of a design decision.

Finally, House and the Legion wanting the Brotherhood dead and nothing else also makes sense; for House, they are direct competition for technology, and they must not approve of his robot army and tribal ''uplifting'' at all. The Legion is almost a polar opposite, with their will to assimilate outsiders and disregard of fancy toys, and anyway they are not know for their subtlelty. On that note, I rarely felt as much an asshole as when I blew up the bunker and saw the pitch-black smoke arise from the vents. And then you go talk to Veronica... Man, much better villainy than mister ''lol kill all wastelanders, even if I am one, cause it's eeeebil!!!'' from Fallout 3.
 
Brother None said:
Guys, please be wary of cross-site trolling. Criticizing the Escapist and their editorial content is fine but veer away from attacking their community or talking about troll accounts, that's against the rules

Wintermind said:
Never take the escapist seriously. Use it for laughs only. And by that I mean Unskippable or Zero Punctuation. Or occasionally perusing their 'forums'.
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*sighs* It used to be a high-brow site known for its strict editorial policies. But then they got starry-eyed about being a bigger site, lucked into drafting Yahtzee, and became a funny video hosting site with pathetic editorial policies leading to publishing articles and reviews that GameSpot would be ashamed of.

Just goes to show the trade-off of popularity vs content.
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Really? That's a shame. I've mostly known them as the place to go to watch ZP and unskippable, and as 'news' site where the news is generally two or three days behind the times. At first most of the articles were pretty good, but they started going downhill after they started having the non-regular staff write most of the articles. Or so that's how I remember it.
 
Jasan Quinn said:
So, having completed what we set out to do... where is the motivation for the rest of it?
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To see how the faction will shape the mojave in the end ? Dunno. As said. What you complain about is as well valid for Fallout 3. It sounds to me you are basically complaining that Vegas does NOT send you on a railroad and gives you the option to deal with the factions you like. I mean again. What kind of option do you really have in Fallout 3 besides killing the Enclave with the Brotherhood ?

Is it cheap that in Vegas EVERYONE ask you the same in the end ? Sure. But hey. The part is that YOU can decide how to deal with it. And that is a lot more compared to Fallout 3. The NCR is probably the faction which got most of the attention. Sadly. Yes the Legion is very short when it comes to interaction. Cant talk about House because I never completed much for him. But Yes Man gives you pretty much the most freedom how to handle the situation.

I am sorry that you have the feeling the game does not do much to give you motivation. But I think you just have to dig a bit deeper in it. Because Fallout 3 did it not really in a much better way if you ask me.
 
Also the courier having no background good and important. I've had couriers that are female cyberpunk tinkers, rugged mountain men, delusional wannabe space man superheroes, idealistic young medical students, sleazy kung fu fighting criminals, and commando badasses.
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Yeah, now that i've done all 4 questlines, I've just been making a bunch of random couriers. I've made a revolvers only cowboy, a follower of the apocalypse scientist, and a Ninja who only uses bladed melee weapons. I'm thinking of making an energy weapons only astronaut. (I just love that spacesuit).

The point is that you just can't do that with f3 without being completely out of place. (Tho, the astronaut might never make sense in context with either game.)
 
WelcomeToNewReno said:
The point is that you just can't do that with f3 without being completely out of place. (Tho, the astronaut might never make sense in context with either game.)
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Sure you can... when you're up in space with teh alienz.
 
I have made a Mexican energy weapons gunslinger Boxing hacker, an Old Vault Dweller (I wore Vault suits, it was the first time I used the Armored Vault 13 jumpsuit from my classic pack) that used only Guns, melee and repaired and built stuff like nobodies bussiness, then a Bisexual sneaky Blackwidow that could get behind anyone's back and whack them with a giant Hammer, those are the ones I remember.

ALso I foudn that They even added a reaction to you killing Kimball with the Archimedes II, the NPCs comment about an Iluminati plan to kill peopel with enlghtment or something.
 
Done all except Mr House (I'm not AnnyRandphile type) but after that play mainly as NCR military/black ops backround courrier, shame the Brotherhood is under exposed almost as cameo they have potential to be better "evil" faction than cartonish legion,NCR has Cass and Boone too, it woud be fun play in game set in the war between NCR and Brotherhood very WH40K like setting. It's :crazy: how people react on my previus choices this time I locked myself from legion and killed Kaiser Soze. :lol: Rescued a worthy man by telling him about my deed. :clap:
 
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