Anyone else think this whole 'Synth' thing has gone too far?

Hardboiled Android said:
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I don't need a citation to show Synths run off machinery, we know for a fact they do. You don't just go from a Gen 2 Synth to magically making people. Synths aren't test tube babies. They are not biologically made. Do they have biological parts? Yes they do. Are they entirely biological? No they are not. Though if you do want a "citation" literally every single Institute scientist that works in the Synth retention department and the Synth building department believe Synths to just be MACHINES. Not people. Thus why they treat Synths the way they do, and those are their creators. You can't get a better source than the literal creator of these things.

And I just told you what percentage of the people Covenant bring in turn out to be Synths, 1 in 4. Roslyn says it herself if you go through her dialogue options during her associated quest. She says the variables used to be worse but she's clearly narrowing down what differentiates a synth from a normal person. She was right about Anna after all.

Thing is, we don't know enough about the Synth component to know what it truly does, but we can assume it works like a vital organ because ripping it out kills them instantly. It doesn't just lower their health, make them go unconscious, or anything of that nature. They just die immediately. I wonder now though, since it doesn't cause any blood/loss of limbs/etc when you steal it, if the component is actually on the outside of the synth? Would explain the lack of anything falling apart. If it were inside I would think when you take it out of a living Gen 3 synth they would fall apart like when you cannibalize someone in FO3.

"But considering it's impossible to determine, even for the Brotherhood of Steel under a microscope, whether or not someone is a Synth" Citation needed. For that matter the synth component basically proves whether or not someone is a synth so that's a completely false statement.
 
ITT: People wasting their time debating the deeper goals and motivations behind factions that some overpaid asshat at bethesda took about 13 and a half minutes thinking about while on the toilet.
 
Vergil said:
ITT: People wasting their time debating the deeper goals and motivations behind factions that some overpaid asshat at bethesda took about 13 and a half minutes thinking about while on the toilet.
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Well if these people want a debate I'm willing to give it to them. People don't seem to understand just how poorly written this faction is, they need to learn.
 
Vergil said:
ITT: People wasting their time debating the deeper goals and motivations behind factions that some overpaid asshat at bethesda took about 13 and a half minutes thinking about while on the toilet.
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You're overestimating Bethesda's writing team, they just copy-pasted the blade-runner wikipedia page.
 
Ragemage said:
they need to learn.
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21cz4sw.jpg
 
Izak said:
Dude, I'm really struggling to understand your argument. No that's not the point of the series; Factions like the FotA, BoS, NCR, the Legion, Etc. all understand that because they have power and resources transcending ordinary groups it's their responsibility to spread ideologies and laws that will benefit the wasteland. Yet the Institute, a group that should have the firmest grasp of the responsibilities that power grants have decided to hole up in a fucking hole and, let everybody whither away, why? Why the fuck has the most learned faction in Fallout lore ignored the most basic fucking tenants of politics? It boggles my fucking mind that these guys were written in the way they were.
Anyway, could you please state your argument? I'm not entirely sure we're talking about the same things.
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Your original point was that the Institute was insulting because it depicts scientists as heartless when in fact they should be doing the most good in the world. I disagree, people are capable of doing bad bad things depending on their cultures. But I would agree- the way Bethesda wrote them makes no sense. But the fundamental notion of scientists doing bad things being dumb is silly.
 
Yeah, alright that makes sense. I was basing my argument off of the dual assumptions that scientists generally try to further their beliefs and, that a university that managed to survive the war would be more akin to the Followers of the Apocalypse then to Josef Mengele; I wasn't saying scientists are super-hero's, just that they're more communally minded than your average apocalypse survivor.
 
Ragemage said:
I don't need a citation to show Synths run off machinery, we know for a fact they do.
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If this is so universally known it should be very simple to prove.

Ragemage said:
You don't just go from a Gen 2 Synth to magically making people. Synths aren't test tube babies.
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They're 3D printed clones. We already know cloning is a thing in Fallout, so I don't see what's so outrageous about this.

Ragemage said:
They are not biologically made.
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What do you think their musculature is based on? What do you think that red vital fluid is? Because I'd bet ten caps that they're carbon-based materials simulating life. AKA, biology.

Ragemage said:
Do they have biological parts? Yes they do. Are they entirely biological? No they are not. Though if you do want a "citation" literally every single Institute scientist that works in the Synth retention department and the Synth building department believe Synths to just be MACHINES.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biorobotics

Whether or not something is a robot is not a function of if it is partially or entirely biological. It is a function of whether or not is synthetic.

Ragemage said:
Not people. Thus why they treat Synths the way they do, and those are their creators. You can't get a better source than the literal creator of these things.
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The same people who programmed them with free will because reasons and released thousands of super mutants cause reasons?

Ragemage said:
And I just told you what percentage of the people Covenant bring in turn out to be Synths, 1 in 4.
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No, that's the percentage of people who fail the SAFE Test who turn out to be Synths. 75% of those who pail are fully human. And if 25% of the people in the Wasteland are Synths, we would expect 25% of those that "fail" the SAFE Test to be Synths. Statistics.

Ragemage said:
Roslyn says it herself if you go through her dialogue options during her associated quest. She says the variables used to be worse but she's clearly narrowing down what differentiates a synth from a normal person. She was right about Anna after all.
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Well, yeah- she's right 25% of the time.

Ragemage said:
Thing is, we don't know enough about the Synth component to know what it truly does, but we can assume it works like a vital organ because ripping it out kills them instantly. It doesn't just lower their health, make them go unconscious, or anything of that nature. They just die immediately.
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Again, this would be as faulty as the assumption that an arrow lodged in a man's artery is a vital component.

Ragemage said:
I wonder now though, since it doesn't cause any blood/loss of limbs/etc when you steal it, if the component is actually on the outside of the synth? Would explain the lack of anything falling apart. If it were inside I would think when you take it out of a living Gen 3 synth they would fall apart like when you cannibalize someone in FO3.
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Interesting idea- though, if that were the case, couldn't Synths be identifiable by a simple strip search?

Also, we can cannibalize a Synth very safely.

Ragemage said:
I"But considering it's impossible to determine, even for the Brotherhood of Steel under a microscope, whether or not someone is a Synth" Citation needed. For that matter the synth component basically proves whether or not someone is a synth so that's a completely false statement.
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My citation is that they've never identified a single Synth, despite their fear of infiltrators, and that there is one among them.
 
Hardboiled Android said:
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You aren't giving the source of where the Brotherhood are even actively looking for individual Synths. Because from where I stand it doesn't seem like they are. They only care about the Institute, seems to me they could care less about all the little random synths running around. Covenant, on the other hand, has been able to determine synths with their test. You seem to keep blocking that part out. Whether it's 25% or 100% it's still a percentage showing that this test works. If it was 0% then your whole spiel about no one truly being able to tell a human from a synth apart would be logically sound, but it isn't. Show me proof where the Brotherhood is actually looking for Synths among them, because all their dialogue points to them focusing completely on the Institute, not individual synths running amok. Dealing with individual Synths running amok would be the Railroad's job.

As for the cannibal part, I did not know that as I've never taken the cannibal perk before.

You're also ignoring the very first line of the Wikipedia link you sent me: "Biorobotics is often used to refer to a real subfield of robotics: studying how to make robots that emulate or simulate living biological organisms mechanically or even chemically." Emulate or simulate, as in, acting like something they aren't. An Emulator is not the real deal, it's a very convincing copy, as an example.

I'd also like to remind you Synths are clearly not completely biological, because of their shutdown function. Watch this as an example:



Skip to 11:30 on the timer to see what I'm talking about. X6-88 specifically mentions the recall code, and the second you say it to Gabriel, he just switches off completely, then is sent back to the Institute for reprogramming. Humans don't have off switches, nor can they simply be mindscrubbed like we find out Gabriel is.
 
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