Are the Originals... Overrated?
- Thread starter Ben Soto
- Start date
Dr Fallout
Centurion
You now, I would take this seriously if you actually had proof of it's major flaws that haven't been dismantled (story concerns) or are a matter of gamestyle preference (combat).
Well, Fallotu 3 got an award for its writing - fuck It I am not going to correct that spelling mistake.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
They didn't with their writing.
ZigzagPX4
The Swiftness of the Ranger
Not one for subtlety, are you? Oh well, time for my two cents nobody ever asks for. You can do a lot with two cents, people!
Well, by original definition, Fallout 2 is a really good RPG. It's not perfect, and certainly not in my list of favourite games, but that's related to RPGs not being my favourite genre rather than it being a bad game. It could be that you might just not like RPGs (which is perfectly fine, everybody) and that's why you don't like Fallout 2, not because it's a poor RPG. People tend to mistake their subjective dislikes for their judgement of things, just a reminder.
It would help if you actually listed the games that you do like.
They... don't have to be one or the other? The originals are not nearly perfect, but their existence is barely acknowledged in the big picture, and even to their biggest fans it has its glaring flaws. If anything, I would say it's severely underrated as a jumping point for future RPGs to take inspiration from. This is speaking as someone who would give Fallout 2 as a game a 6 out of 10 at best, if I was a critic.
It is called "pacing" and it is rarely found in modern games. Maybe once or twice a month, but not too much, since it's unfortunately all about spectacle now. I haven't played Firewatch, and I've heard it's pretty okay (not great), but I'm betting it was the pacing of the plot that made it work, since that's usually what most linear walking simulators rely on. On the other hand, as has been demonstrated, Fallout 4 has worse pacing than a Michael Bay movie.
It's funny how even good 3D games show their age very clearly in their graphics as time goes on, but good 2D games holds up extremely well in terms of visuals after a decade. I know it mostly just falls to preference. Half-Life has aged considerably in terms of graphics but the gameplay holds it up well enough to still be a gem.
Personally, I feel 3D games will always be visually outlived by 2D games.
oh no you dislike a couple of games other people liked whatever shall we do the earth is doomed
Well, by original definition, Fallout 2 is a really good RPG. It's not perfect, and certainly not in my list of favourite games, but that's related to RPGs not being my favourite genre rather than it being a bad game. It could be that you might just not like RPGs (which is perfectly fine, everybody) and that's why you don't like Fallout 2, not because it's a poor RPG. People tend to mistake their subjective dislikes for their judgement of things, just a reminder.
It would help if you actually listed the games that you do like.
They... don't have to be one or the other? The originals are not nearly perfect, but their existence is barely acknowledged in the big picture, and even to their biggest fans it has its glaring flaws. If anything, I would say it's severely underrated as a jumping point for future RPGs to take inspiration from. This is speaking as someone who would give Fallout 2 as a game a 6 out of 10 at best, if I was a critic.
It is called "pacing" and it is rarely found in modern games. Maybe once or twice a month, but not too much, since it's unfortunately all about spectacle now. I haven't played Firewatch, and I've heard it's pretty okay (not great), but I'm betting it was the pacing of the plot that made it work, since that's usually what most linear walking simulators rely on. On the other hand, as has been demonstrated, Fallout 4 has worse pacing than a Michael Bay movie.
It's funny how even good 3D games show their age very clearly in their graphics as time goes on, but good 2D games holds up extremely well in terms of visuals after a decade. I know it mostly just falls to preference. Half-Life has aged considerably in terms of graphics but the gameplay holds it up well enough to still be a gem.
Personally, I feel 3D games will always be visually outlived by 2D games.
oh no you dislike a couple of games other people liked whatever shall we do the earth is doomed
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Especially when they look more like a piece of art then simple graphics.
Well, just to say this. Because you make an interesting point.
You can discuss, till the stars are falling from the sky, what ever if Fallout 2 is a good, mediocre or even bad game. Many here won't agree, and see it as good game, but one would be a fool to not see at least SOME faults in Fallout 2 - there definetly have been enough discussions on that topic ...
And if someone decides, hey Fallout 2 contains to many silly jokes, and that's why I don't like it. Fine! I can respect that. And there is no real argument against it, because there is some truth in it.
The thing you can NOT talk about though, is the fact that Fallout 1 and 2 are classics, as far as the RPG genre goes. And that means, as RPGs, they are doing a lot of things right. What ever if someone likes that, or not, is personal opinion.
But why should we, or anyone for that matter, give anything about the opinion of someone on bicycles, who actually prefers cars, and who doesn't even LIKE bicycles. I see certain games trashed sooo often by people, not because the game is bad, but because they don't like the genre. It's one thing to complain about bugs for example, or about shitty game mechanics. But to call a game bad because ... just because it has turn based combat? That's bias.
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Ben Soto
Professional Salt Shaker
New Vegas is my favorite game of all time. After it are Portal 2, Undertale, MGSV, Half-Life, and the original Portal. I also like Fallout 1, but I think that, at least on NMA, it's slightly overrated. It's not that I don't like RPGs. It's that I really don't care for turn-based isometric RPGs. I also really dislike Fallout 2 both as an RPG and as a sequel to one of the few really good isometric RPGs.
This is mostly a post targeted to NMA. If this were going on, say, Reddit, it'd be asking if the originals are underrated.
Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
I wouldn't say the original games are overrated here, you can have a serious discussion about the flaws of the two games, generally people here will take part in it and either produce legitimate counterpoints to explain their infatuation with the games or agree with you but still recommend and enjoy the games.
I think a better word would be over-fellated, but it's a fan site made specifically for those two games, what would you expect to happen?
I think a better word would be over-fellated, but it's a fan site made specifically for those two games, what would you expect to happen?
Ben Soto
Professional Salt Shaker
Overfellated? Um... What exactly does that mean?
Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
NMA sucks isometric Fallout dick.
It's not an insult, people here like and praise the original Fallouts, sometimes ignoring their flaws but they're not in denial about anything, they like it in a healthy, critical way.
It's not an insult, people here like and praise the original Fallouts, sometimes ignoring their flaws but they're not in denial about anything, they like it in a healthy, critical way.
There is no such thing as overrated in gaming, there is people who like and people who dislike particular types of games.
Also there is no such thing as a perfect RPG on computer or console gaming (not Baldur's Gate, not Fallout, not Planescape Torment, etc).
There are good and bad RPGs (in terms of being a computer or console game) and Fallout 1 and 2 are good ones.
Fallout 1 is quite short and doesn't has many areas we can explore, that is the only thing I think is not as good.
Actually I still enjoy the graphics even today, they still look "nice" to me and I usually still play Fallout and Fallout 2 at least once per year, while for example my eyes just can't cope with some other good old games (some games literally makes my eyes tear and hurt if I have to look at some old games for a few minutes, which makes them unplayable for me now
). I do have to admit that I have to use item highlighting keys these days in I play with the high res patch otherwise the items on the ground are just pretty invisible for my old tired eyes
.Like I said before there is no perfect RPG in computers or consoles.
Fallout 1 and 2 are just smart, fun, games where roleplaying is still possible and what kind of character you make and play matters, you have plenty of ways of do many quests, you can actually have conversations with interesting NPCs, you are not forced to be, act and say what someone else wants you to just because it would be too much effort to program different ways of doing things in the game, allows for plenty of player and character freedom.
In sum: Fallout 1 and 2 are two of the best computer RPG experiences anyone that enjoys RPGs can play, which still stands true so many years after they were released.
Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
That's a good point, Fallout 1 & 2 are objectively good RPG's since your character build and player agency greatly affect the world at large and, those are defining characteristics of a good RPG.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
What I really want one of these days, is a discussion on the flaws of Fallout 1 or 2 where people actually list the flaws rather then vaguely state they exist.
Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
Fallout 2 flaws:
1. Far to referential.
2. Buggy upon release.
3. Stole stuff from the Sfall crew.
4. Had a ghost without going into the complex questions that affirmation of the afterlife brings up.
5. The villain was two-dimensional and couldn't be talked down as with other Fallout games.
6. The temple of trials, fuck it.
Both Fallouts had far too many dump stats and, both Fallouts had a bunch of quests that were broken so you couldn't save all the communities.
Someone else can find flaws with Fallout 1, I haven't played it nearly as much.
1. Far to referential.
2. Buggy upon release.
3. Stole stuff from the Sfall crew.
4. Had a ghost without going into the complex questions that affirmation of the afterlife brings up.
5. The villain was two-dimensional and couldn't be talked down as with other Fallout games.
6. The temple of trials, fuck it.
Both Fallouts had far too many dump stats and, both Fallouts had a bunch of quests that were broken so you couldn't save all the communities.
Someone else can find flaws with Fallout 1, I haven't played it nearly as much.
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valcik
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Dr Fallout
Centurion
How is the first even a flaw...
But it ain't buggy now! Much. And lot of the quests have been fixed.
But it ain't buggy now! Much. And lot of the quests have been fixed.
Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
I'm just saying compare this: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_2_cultural_references
to this: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_cultural_references
But (most of) that's because of the hard work of Killap, the Sfall team and, all the other modders that worked on the restoration project, saying it can be excused because of that is like saying "Mods will fix it.".
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
They're underrated.
If they were overrated I doubt Herve or Bethesda would've fucked with it.
If they were overrated I doubt Herve or Bethesda would've fucked with it.
AskWazzup
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Let's see:
Great music score (nr.1 in my opinion)
Great artwork
Great death animations (my favorite death animations)
Great variety in character builds and developement (unlucky, junky medical genius that throws grenades at foes)
Great variety in skills and perks
Great variety in dialogue, choices and consiquences
Great variety in/and quality quests (sabotage atomic plant, armwrestle, dig graves, become pornstar)
Great variety in items and uses of them (ex. pickpocketing someone to plant a stick of dynamite)
Great main story (in the first)
Lackluster combat, where you cannot take control of your sidekicks (still pretty fun)
Graphics (still better than baldurs gate)
In short, no it isn't. After 5 or 6 playthroughs i still found new things in the game, that i was not previously aware of. The strangest thing is that you find the atmosphere lackluster? The Glow? Mariposa Military Base? I thought the atmosphere was one of the best traits of this game.
Great music score (nr.1 in my opinion)
Great artwork
Great death animations (my favorite death animations)
Great variety in character builds and developement (unlucky, junky medical genius that throws grenades at foes)
Great variety in skills and perks
Great variety in dialogue, choices and consiquences
Great variety in/and quality quests (sabotage atomic plant, armwrestle, dig graves, become pornstar)
Great variety in items and uses of them (ex. pickpocketing someone to plant a stick of dynamite)
Great main story (in the first)
Lackluster combat, where you cannot take control of your sidekicks (still pretty fun)
Graphics (still better than baldurs gate)
In short, no it isn't. After 5 or 6 playthroughs i still found new things in the game, that i was not previously aware of. The strangest thing is that you find the atmosphere lackluster? The Glow? Mariposa Military Base? I thought the atmosphere was one of the best traits of this game.
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