Are the Originals... Overrated?

JO'Geran said:
Still don't quite get why you think the Shi don't make sense though. Why do you think the situation the Shi are in doesn't make sense?
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"We were the survivors from the wreck of a submarine. When we ran aground, we stripped the metal from the submarine to create the Palace. Some do not believe this." -total baloney

Shi are liers. Don't believe their communist lies.

"Perhaps their most awe-inspiring feat is the ability to restore pre-War T-51b power armor to working condition and offer them for sale." -no

This is not their strong-suit. The Chinese have no idea how power-armor works. They're about as intelligent as the average wastelander.

And it turns out the Shi are mentioned very quietly in Fallout 4. During a memory sequence that showed Kellogg (The man who shot SS's husband/wife) http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Conrad_Kellogg He worked for them, apparently. (btw don't like how you have to kill them no matter what)

Yeah, that's enough of my whining for now. :)
 
NotAcasul said:
"We were the survivors from the wreck of a submarine. When we ran aground, we stripped the metal from the submarine to create the Palace. Some do not believe this." -total baloney

Shi are liers. Don't believe their communist lies.

"Perhaps their most awe-inspiring feat is the ability to restore pre-War T-51b power armor to working condition and offer them for sale." -no

This is not their strong-suit. The Chinese have no idea how power-armor works. They're about as intelligent as the average wastelander.

And it turns out the Shi are mentioned very quietly in Fallout 4. During a memory sequence that showed Kellogg (The man who shot SS's husband/wife) http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Conrad_Kellogg He worked for them, apparently. (btw don't like how you have to kill them no matter what)

Yeah, that's enough of my whining for now. :)
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Sort of agreeing with this... there has been no guarantee nor solid evidence that the Shi actually are the descendants of the a Chinese submarine crew. For all we know, they could've just been the Chinese-American population of the US that survived the war. Though they would have nothing to gain from lying either, so I guess it's par for the course. Maybe we might have the true answer if Obsidian actually gets to make a goddamn Fallout game again!
 
Even though some of the Shi say they are the descendants of a submarine crew not all of the Shi believe that, and it would have been a huge coincidence they managed to get onshore right on San Francisco's Chinatown :lmao:.

My fanon is that they are:
  1. Just Chinatown resident's descendants, or
  2. A real Submarine crashed and some chinese crew managed to mingle with the Chinatown population (just to not look suspicious because of the war with China) but way before the bombs fell
They are actually quite the researchers and scientists, how this came to happen is not explained in game, but in My fanon I imagine that it was because of their "Emperor", I believe since it is a pre-war highly advanced computer it would have had the pre-war knowledge of sciences and it used that knowledge to train scientists.

Again those things are just speculation because there is nowhere that actually says how did those things happened, but even so the Shi are still better written than for example the institute in Fallout 4 even if they are less fleshed out... for example I will quote the wiki since it is faster than me writing my own wall of text >_>:
The Shi are also very active researchers. They are nearing a breakthrough in the rediscovery of nuclear power and are considering methods of space travel. They have also learned to synthesize a new fuel using plant extracts and sea life. Since integrating pre-existing pipelines to their fuel reservoirs, they can direct fuel to a number of diverse areas, including the PMV Valdez. New weapons research and insights into new polymeric combat armor, with enhanced heat and penetration resistance, look like promising additions to the Shi armament, particularly when viewed in context with their construction capabilities. It is forecast that, with vertibird schematics, a prototype could be manufactured in a year. In an additional year, mass vertibird production would be viable. Despite the wasteland lacking a proper Jet Antidote, the Shi had developed a similar endorphin blocker which is as effective as regular Jet antidote which can be occasionally available for sale.

Other, less militaristic, advances include radiation-resistant plant life in the Shi botany department, which is led by Dr. Sheng Ming. Initial experimentation yielded results with unpleasant side effects, so it was posited that research be redirected to more critical areas. After Dr. Long Wang's experimentation of injecting himself with a FEV-derived serum to manufacture super soldiers failed, his genetic research department was merged with Dr. Sheng's botany department. Due to this merging, research on radiation-resistant plant life was resumed. The research culminated in a radiation consuming vine that scoured the San Francisco area of radiation after the Enclave's destruction.
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Oh look, after a doctor tried to use some FEV-derived serum to create Super Soldiers failed... he wasn't allowed to continue doing the same thing for frickin hundreds of years, they closed his department and merged his research into more useful areas and they achieved a great breakthrough, a damn rad eating vine.

They are also not obsessed with researching the same thing over and over (like making SM for no god-damned reason, or keep making synths for again no god-damned reason, etc), their departments actually achieve useful results like new fuel types (from renewable materials like plants and sea life), new armor materials, radiation resistant plants, they might even be able to make space-travel happen, they seem like an evolving research community even with limited resources (that is why they seem to have prioritised the research of ways to produce renewable ones, which is quite realistic), not a stagnant one with infinite resources like the institute.

From a point of view of the game I also understand why the Shi exist, it is to allow the player to get high-end equipment before going into the Oil Rig, as to not go there underpowered.

This is my opinion, please do not think I am dismissing yours, everyone has their own and I am not a guy that likes to bash other people's opinions :aiee:.
 
ZigzagPX4 said:
Sort of agreeing with this... there has been no guarantee nor solid evidence that the Shi actually are the descendants of the a Chinese submarine crew. For all we know, they could've just been the Chinese-American population of the US that survived the war. Though they would have nothing to gain from lying either, so I guess it's par for the course. Maybe we might have the true answer if Obsidian actually gets to make a goddamn Fallout game again!
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I mean it's sort of good that we don't know what's true and false, it's fun to wonder which is which. It's just that the Shi seem like they lie too much, which makes me dislike them and question their faction.
 
Who knows if they are voluntarily lying on their origins? It may just be part of their mythos, legends built more or less on historical facts that've been gradually embellished and distorted by each passing generations, until nobody can really distinguish the true from the false. Would you call a Antic Roman a liar if he tells you that Rome was founded by descendants of Troyan princes after the Achaean burned down their city?
 
Who knows if they are voluntarily lying on their origins? It may just be part of their mythos, legends built more or less on historical facts that've been gradually embellished and distorted by each passing generations, until nobody can really distinguish the true from the false. Would you call a Antic Roman a liar if he tells you that Rome was founded by descendants of Troyan princes after the Achaean burned down their city?

Even if you look at today history class in High School, pretty much half of what you are learning about History are just big fat bollocks that has been repeated over and over until it becomes truth in school textbook.
 
I thought the emperor proved that they were from the submarine, didn't it have a bunch of journals from the former captain? Also there was cut content where you could go on the submarine, they added it back in with the RP.
 
GlutinousRice said:
Who knows if they are voluntarily lying on their origins? It may just be part of their mythos, legends built more or less on historical facts that've been gradually embellished and distorted by each passing generations, until nobody can really distinguish the true from the false. Would you call a Antic Roman a liar if he tells you that Rome was founded by descendants of Troyan princes after the Achaean burned down their city?

Even if you look at today history class in High School, pretty much half of what you are learning about History are just big fat bollocks that has been repeated over and over until it becomes truth in school textbook.
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Is random philosophy your running theme or something? Not that I mind.

Izak said:
I thought the emperor proved that they were from the submarine, didn't it have a bunch of journals from the former captain? Also there was cut content where you could go on the submarine, they added it back in with the RP.
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Well, a submarine presumably beached for real, but there's no indication that the Shi are actually their descended crew. The logs are of the submarines themselves, most of them are corrupted, and the legitimacy of those logs is debatable.

Chinese-American citizens who built their palace out of scavenged metal sounds more plausible. Of course, it also sounds much less interesting, but I like to kill the fun out of lore like that.
 
No, they're certainly not overrated.

I definitely think that NMA can be a little hypocritical with intense nitpicking lense (especially when it comes to narrative) over the Bethesda games, but tends to smooth over and forget the sillier/weaker aspects of Fallout 1 and 2 (Hubologists, Shi, Talking Deathclaws, Ghosts etc.) so in that regard, they can be a little bit romanticized by NMA
 
It's interesting that every silly/weak aspect you named was completely about Fallout 2, which saw extensive criticism in this community ... seriously, we are nitpicking on EVERYTHING, when will you guys understand that :p
By the way, you should go and visit the Codex some time.
 
The Codex is the community solely based on hating and bashing RPG, the concept of overbashing don't exist for them.
 
People should stop using the term "overrated". Just because you might perceive something as "overrated" or "underrated" or any other words you want to butcher, does not mean anything at all. The whole argument of labeling a game as overrated boils down to: "this game doesn't deserve the praise that it gets because it didn't meet my expectations." I am sick of seeing these arguments on the internet, along with the "hurr durr, nostalgia gogglez!1!" drivel, because typically (mostly), the person who is regurgitating them are just being a self-entitled prick whose mind is clouded by their own egotistical bias, preventing them from understand the concept of what an opinion is. Not implying you are one, but "overrated" should apply to "inaccuracy", not because you think said product does not deserve the attention or praise it gets.
 
How can they be overrated when the majority of the gaming public seems unaware that there were Fallout games before the third one? Worse yet, so many people just refuse to play them at all.

I'll say they are pretty underrated despite being such important games for their time.
 
ZigzagPX4 said:
I've been to the Codex. I feel like the place is one of the examples that work against why free speech should exist.
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The Codex, is a phenomena that should be understood like one big ironic midle finger to the gaming community. Think about it like a Goerge Carlin, just as gaming forum.
 
Walpknut said:
How can they be overrated when the majority of the gaming public seems unaware that there were Fallout games before the third one? Worse yet, so many people just refuse to play them at all.

I'll say they are pretty underrated despite being such important games for their time.
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I've said it before, I'll say it again: I've badly worded this post. It's directed specifically to those on NMA. If I was posting this on Reddit, I'd be asking if they're underrated.
 
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