Bethesda planning to revisit Skyrim paid mods after Fallout 4's launch.

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by AgentBJ09, Jul 19, 2015.

  1. AgentBJ09

    AgentBJ09 Vault Dweller

    Jul 9, 2015

    *shakes head* The idea of paid mods in any Bethesda game is hard-wired to be a disaster. And there's plenty of reason for it to go that way. Gamers paying for fixes is the big one, especially when Bethesda gets a sizeable cut of those mod sales and yet has no incentive to look into and patch the finer issues themselves. What they pull in from those optimization mod sales is pure profit, and they know it.

    Leaving out the issues of mod makers not allowing other mod makers to monetize creations based off their mods, let's not forget what Robin Scott (Nexus's head admin) said on TB's show about the donate button his site has used for years now: It is barely used. (The Nexus would've gotten a 5% cut, taken from Valve's 35%, of a mod sale with the Paid Mods system if the mod maker allowed it. An absolute pittance.)

    Thoughts, everyone?
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2015
  2. Hardboiled Android

    Hardboiled Android Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 7, 2015
    I honestly wouldn't hate it as long as tehy don't try to shut down free modding.

    But PC gamers are going to be fucking pissed. But I wouldn't count on any boycott of mods or further Beth products- especially with console folks who are just happy to have mods at all
  3. PossibleCabbage

    PossibleCabbage Vault 22 Survivor

    Jul 2, 2015
    It is not awful to imagine modders being compensated for extremely ambitious mods that meaningfully expand the game and represent a ton of effort, time, and love.

    What nobody wants to see is mods that basically exist to fix Bethesda's broken shit being ones you have to pay for. If the people who make those mods need to be compensated, they should be compensated by Bethesda​.
    • [Like] [Like] x 9
  4. AgentBJ09

    AgentBJ09 Vault Dweller

    Jul 9, 2015
    On XBOX One only, don't forget. Plus, considering these mod makers can only get paid in two places -- The Nexus and Steam Workshop -- the lure of good money is going to shift mod makers away from Nexus and to Steam. It's actually on Valve to step in and say something about mod makers exclusively using Workshop and not allowing free alternatives, but I doubt it'll happen.

    Bethesda paying modders who fix their games would be nice, but doing that would also be an admittance from them that they're releasing games in such states that their users are fixing them en masse. I doubt they're willing to take that leap, even though they make plenty on their name alone.
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2015
  5. Lexx

    Lexx Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    I don't mind paying for quality stuff. I sure as hell won't be paying $1.99 for a damn sword or armor. Such mods with that pricing appeard when they tried the Skyrim paid-mod launch...
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  6. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    But how do you make sure that it's quality stuff? The big advantage of mods is that people can release what ever they want and it's compltely up to you to if you want to use it or not.

    It would be really nice to see people earning something with their hard work and all that. But let us be honest, 90% of the mods out there are not top quality, they are usually something that is spicing up your gameplay, that has the potential to get new bugs in even. It's not kick starter content to say that.

    Mods have been for the longest time free content. Why the change now? Why the need to monetize it so heavily? I am not sure if I like that idea.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  7. Stone Cold Robert House

    Stone Cold Robert House Mojave Rattlesnake

    Jul 6, 2015
    "Our belief is, 'We made the game, we made the game you're making a thing for.' So just like anything else, there is some kind of involvement that we're going to have in that," he said.

    Yes, and we paid for that game. That's how it works. Are you paying Microsoft or Apple for every game you sell? They made the platform you're making it on. No? You paid a base fee for installing the operating system and then you were free to use it to make other programs... just like modding works now. And the modders made the mods that fixed all the shittiness in your game. Then they have the guts to take 45% of the sale. It's not that modders don't deserve to get paid - there are many incredible modders out there - but not the measly amount that was offered. Maybe a good donation setup would be easier to digest for the consumers if it was optional (I sure wouldn't mind giving a modder a small donation if s/he does a great, extensive job). And it really doesn't work with the way people use mods right now. My Skyrim has a good 30 mods at the moment and I don't really feel like it's overkill at all, in fact I'd say it's quite below average. I wouldn't have a fraction of that even if the mods were a dollar each, which is probably lowballing it pretty hard. Should we pay for unofficial bug fixes or content improvement now?

    Plus I can't imagine what kind of legal problems would come from this. What happens if I make a free mod which does the exact same thing as a paid mod? Is Zenimax going to sue me for doing that, even though I made that content on my own? There's no way to prevent this kind of thing unless you DRM the hell out of your game.

    The whole thing seems like more trouble than it's worth, and counterproductive to their current business model. They're just trying to change the concept of modding for a relatively minimal amount of profit. Modders know what they are doing and they mod for fun/passion/possible future career and not for the money - if you really think a modder deserves to be paid, you can make a donation. Monetization of something is only worth it (for the company) if you can offer costumers more quality and/or convenience. With paid mods, you're decreasing the amount of quality content coming in, because less people will be encouraged to make mods, and you're removing one of the biggest qualities of PC gaming which was user-created free content. It's senseless, and it's stupid to try to push this again after it already didn't work once.
    • [Like] [Like] x 5
  8. UniversalWolf

    UniversalWolf eaten by a grue.

    Aug 28, 2005
    Bethesda rightly views their customers as filthy little crack whores to be exploited in every conceivable way.

    The simple answer is to stop buying the products produced by this wretched company. That will never happen, of course.
    • [Like] [Like] x 3
  9. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    It WOULD shut it down. The moment you set up a system/policy that outlines what you pay for and why you pay for it, you immediately make other mods a "break in user agreement". It's the EULA equivalent of criminalizing mods.

    Plus, WHY would anyone- EVER -pay for a thing that is available for free? This isn't about "oh, well if they want to monotize, they should be allowed to" nor is it about "oh, well they won't affect these things if those things want to be sold for money". Like AgentBJ09 explained, this is a PURE cash grab by Bethesda, nothing more.

    Worse, Bethesda is ALREADY notorious for churning out titles with little effort in creativity and heavily riddled with bugs and glitches, and known widely for their games being "modding platforms". Selling mods (at rates which significantly shaft the modders themselves, by the way) is FURTHER incentive for them to pay less and less attention to selling a quality product. "Why patch it? Other people will do it for us! AND we get to make money at both steps!" This is a horrible, HORRIBLE idea. No one should support this. NO ONE.

    If you believe in modders making money for their hard work, then pay them, yourselves. Humble Bundles operate on this same principle: Pay what you believe you should pay. DON'T force everyone to unite under some terrible policy that will invariably set the stage for EVERYTHING being worse off for everyone simply because you don't have the time nor consideration to apply a principle and see how briefly it lasts.

    The day tweekers learn to give up their crack, the former will become a possibility.

    History always serves as the perfect lesson or perfect proof to such a statement. Who were some of the first "modders" of the gaming scene back in the early 90s? That's right, Doom map makers. What happened to them? They got hired by companies who saw their work and wanted them to work for them. Are artists paid for putting their stuff up on DeviantArt? No, they put up portions of their portfolios with the expectations that, as long as they continue to refine their craft, and they show it, they will get work in the end. Did Monty Oum get paid for making Haloid and Dead Fantasy? No, he got hired by 3 companies who saw his work and loved it and knew that they NEEDED to hire this talented guy.

    If you just cut the process short by paying modders, you're effectively cutting them off from that bright and shining future.

    Another historical lesson that backs this up: "Prohibition failed. So what? Try it again and just call it something else! War on Drugs! Yeah! NOW it'll work, no problem!" Pfft.
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2015
  10. Lexx

    Lexx Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    I don't, that's the problem. I mean, even mods like this Beyond Boulder Dome for New Vegas is pretty mediocre at best, as far as I've heard.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  11. Askorti


    Jun 30, 2015
    I wonder who is Beth trying to BS with their "modders deserve to be paid"? There is a donate function on Nexus, it is more than enough. It's just a greedy money grab, nothing more, nothing less. You would think, that with all the pre-orders they would have enough money by now...
  12. Lexx

    Lexx Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    Donation on Nexus is only for premium membership, though. So you don't make any actual money with it. If you aren't a regular Nexus user, then it's pretty useless for you.

    PS: In all the years I have my mods there, I never got any donations. :p Now this either means my stuff is crap or nobody simply cares that much.
  13. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign ⛧卐⛧ Staff Member Moderator [REDACTED]

    Apr 1, 2005
    Your mods are very well done. Modders deserve to receive more than they currently do. It is easy for people to say "Just donate." but the problem is no one does that. There should be a better way of going about things.

    If you take a look at the Nexus community, over half of the users never even endorse the mods they are downloading. They take things for granted. They complain or don't even read the FAQ when trying to troubleshoot mods, often going at lengths to badmouth the mod authors. I could go on and on but the gist of it is modding is mostly thankless work.
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2015
  14. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    The issue isn't that modders NEED payment and thus "just donate" is an easy solution. The issue is that they DON'T need it at all, and "just donate" is so easy to say because that's how simple all those moralists' concerns are easily discarded for the shallow rhetoric that they are. Those who use their spare time to create something out of passion for the thing they are working with are doing it for themselves, not for payment.

    Those who are trying to pursue a career in the field can use mods like their own form of resume, and that works. If modders ONLY ever modded because they wanted (or needed) to make a profit on it, there would NEVER have been a mod made! That's just the way it is. If that's all they cared about, they would've setup companies, filed the paperwork, and made their programming something official. Instead, they kept their work free so it could be whatever they want without clashing with licensing or copyright laws, and everyone benefits from their creativity as a result. If money was a problem, these modders would have stopped ages ago, because they weren't being paid enough. But they just keep coming and making more and more new stuff. The way it works is just fine as it is.
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  15. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    The problem I have though is that if we are honest most of the mods out there simply lack the quality and necessary legal framework you expect in a full product, even if it's very sophisticated content. I have tried some of the known mods for Skyrim. Like the Civil War overhaul or the Interesting NPCs mod and a few others sometimes more sometimes less popular mods. And I am not sure if I would pay money for them and not just ignore the content. Particularly when you consider how many times mods are abbanonded by their creator. For what ever reason, I don't even believe they all did it on purpose. But if you suddenly get a full time job it can become difficult to find the time to keep your mod updated. Particularly for an aging game. One could argue that money will give people incentive to offer higher quality content. But I have my doubts about that. Most modders are simply not working on that level. And I feel people would feel much less urge to simply try out mods, when you have to consider that they cost money. At least I would think twice about it and probably not even try a lot of it simply because I have no clue if they are full of bugs, if they will break my game, if the modder will continue his work or if it is high quality content. Which brings us to another important point. What happens if the mod is so full of bugs and issues that you can't continue the game? Who do you blame? Can you demand your money back? - You can't even do that properly with a full price game right now! At least as far as free content goes you can always say, hey at your own risk! But if it costs money ...

    I see a lot of potential problems here. And I feel a company like Bethesda or Valve would simply pass the buck to the community and mod creators while reaping on the financial benefits and all of that for doing nothing more than offering the platform. While directing any criticizm of the community to the modders, hey! You're not happy with the content? Modder XYZ is right there! Not our fault. And that one would be even true.

    But I also feel that money would have the potential to split the community in two groups. Those that see it as passion and those that just want to make as much money in the shortest time possible.
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2015
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  16. AskWazzup

    AskWazzup Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 21, 2008
    Why would they not try it, DLC's worked, this might too. If this worked, they could basically make a platform with minimum content and then outsource the majority of work to the moders. As a company you don't need to pay wages for moders, you don't need to give them working space, or equipment, or to worry about unions, or laws, or contracts or any of that shit, you just pimp the moders however you please and if they are doing a good job, you can also lay off more of your workforce. Also, instead of one, or a few products, you now have hundreds of them!

  17. fred2

    fred2 Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Nov 2, 2013
    I think its good that Beth allow modders to be compensated for their time\work, which might draw some people to create quality content.
  18. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Nexus allows Modders to be compensated too. And it also allows to get more than 5% of what the person wanting to support them pays.

    Bethesda has actually gotten in the way of some modder groups setting up donation campaigns for their work in the past, so this is just further money pinching and anti consumer behavior.
  19. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    "Our belief is, 'We made the game, we made the game you're making a thing for.'

    So if they allow paid mods for new vegas, would that mean that Obsidian get 45% royalties for the mods despite not having any royalties for the game itself ? They made the game after all.
    Or should Cain/Interplay get royalties for the game Beth are making a thing for ?
    • [Like] [Like] x 3
  20. fred2

    fred2 Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Nov 2, 2013
    @Walpknut. How is charging a fee from those who wish to profit from your IP for example with T-Shirts, Spin-off games\fiction different from those who wish to profit with mods?

    BTW, You can still make mods for free (like people has been doing here for a long time) for the community and with ever increasing tools support. The only change here is that those who wish to make money from modding, now have been given a legal option todo so. Also personally, I doubt that paid mods will be very successful.

    @naossano. Obsidian were contracted to make a spin-off title, they are not the IP holder of the game or the engine\tools, so no. However, I suppose its possible that some studio might be able to negotiate for a share.