Bethesda to buy another IP?

[Ausdoerrt]

FO and Arcanum don't have enough hand holding and they don't have the same sandbox appeal as FO3 or Fable 2. Planescape has way too much reading. Something like BG2 could sell well, but it honestly isn't very different from some contemporary games, except that it packed in more content than you'll ever see from Bioware again.

I'm not sure a game being sandbox is a universal "appeal". Some games are better left railroaded and straightforward.

BTW, did I just see "too much reading"? Seriously, if the amount of text in a game would be crucial to marketability, and excessive reading would ruin games, then Japan must be imagining its big gaming market. Have you ever played an Asian RPG, much less a visual novel game? One of those game I played this year probably has more text than all of US releases of 2008

 

[UncannyGarlic]

You got it upside down there, chokky. Medieval fantasy has always been and will always be the biggest seller amongst fantasy settings. During certain periods sci-fi outsells it (when sci-fi is "hot", as in during the original Star Wars saga), but post-apocalyptic? Never.

Shooter > melee game, tho'. That might be a bigger factor.

Well it depends on how futuristic you get, I think that slightly post-modern settings seem to be popular, especially with a general audience, but I think you're right about the bigger factor, FPS is more popular than FPP melee. I'd argue that the reason that FPP melee games are less popular is because they are worse than FPS games due to the mechanics feeling less natural, fluid, and less controlled. I don't know of any FPP game that has melee as good as the best TPP games or even average TPP melee games. One could argue that it's because most RT FPP games don't have melee as the focus, it's usually there as a last resort to the shooting.

 

[Brother None]

Mount & Blade has over-the-shoulder/FP melee combat, and it is absolutely cumstain brilliant.

Also, Zeno Clash will kick your ass
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX0jxT03x3U[/youtube]

(they actually discuss the whole FPS and melee thing here)

 

[Tagaziel]

Dark Messiah of Might & Magic has good, enjoyable FPP melee combat.

 

[aenemic]

Dark Messiah of Might & Magic has good, enjoyable FPP melee combat.

yeah, I was very impressed by the combat in that game. it's a shame it's so linear and poorly written. and buggy.

the physics felt realistic for once and I love how they didn't make it all about sword-swinging.

 

[Tagaziel]

I loved my mighty foot.

 

[aenemic]

yeah, impaling orcs on spikes using only my foot was the most fun I had in that game.

 

[Crni Vuk]

And why do a lot of gamers I know desperately crave for more games with "deep" content and meaningfull (complex) gameplay ?

Selection bias? Most of the gamers I know don’t play Fit, Play, or Mario Kart but those were the top three games last year according to NPD. We tend to congregate with people that share our values. But like I said, I can only really talk about NA or Japan. I don’t have any feeling about Norway, but it probably isn’t a terribly big market anyway.

As for the rest of your post, I think you should recognize that you are comparing big multiplatform/console games to relatively less popular PC exclusives. If the question is, “Why won’t publishers give Jeff Vogel 20 million dollars to make his next game?”, then the answer is “While he might make a swank game, it probably wouldn’t turn a profit unless he changed his formula and target audience.” To put it bluntly, Planescape or Arcanum’s sales don’t justify a big budget. Sure, they’d sell more with prettier graphics and a ton of advertising, but they are not mainstream games like SSBB, Fit, or even FO3. They weren't mainstream games back then, and they wouldn't be mainstream games now.

Well just that no one has tried it so far yet. And I mean ... what would be hurt if one would really do it in the end? Its not like companies like EA or others do not spend millions of dollars on projects they have to throw away in the end (Starcraft Ghost anyone?).

Thats what I mean. With the right person behidn a project and at least "some" of the funds companies like Bethesda or EA have there could be new and even better masterpieces done then Fallout 1 or Planescape. With real interactitivy even and not just "static" scripted events and quests. Mind you that already with Fallout 1 they slightly tired this with the "ask me about". Very limited, but a step in the right direction! Now think about the same feature. Today. With multi quad core processors behind it, MySql databases working in the background to track yoru answers. If chat bots can almost trick you in a conversation one can only imagine what all would be possible if they would concentrate on "Roleplaying" features just as much as they do on Graphic and Marketing nowadays.

The Games and gamers got old. 10 years have past. Some tourned from 16 to 26, some from 20 to 30 or from 40 to 50. The market for those "deep" RPGs was always present, it was not a niche market. I dont beliefe this. It was "small" market. Yes but so were others, like First person shoters, Strategy games or adventure games based around Monkey Island and Necronomicon. The gaming market allowed for a lot more of diversity even "block buster" games. It has become today a hegemony were games HAVE to feel exactly like the last game just simplified.

The thing is just that the playerbase that liked the "old" experience are not dead suddenly. The Need is still there. But what do you expect when there is no competition. No game in the same class as Fallout or even Baldurs Gate (what ever if a good RPG or not, it definetly is better then Oblivion or Fallout 3. There is not even any arguing about it) or if some can not be satisfied with 2 Houses a italian Ferrarie infront of them and need 10 Million in their pocket instead of the usual 2.

 

[Brother None]

Don't be silly, Crni. The "no one has tried it yet" argument is valid, but not for investing 20 million USD into a niche title. They're niche for a reason, and there's enough market research floating about there that would make one think that won't change.

There's nothing wrong with proposing the gaming industry finds an alternative to the current dichotomy between mainstream AAA must-sell-1-million-to-break-even games and the indie games. Heck, I'd say the industry needs to be looking at B-Roll titles (and note that Fallout and PS:T were B-roll titles, not AAA titles, though the distinction was fuzzier back then), fair enough, but investing 20 million into such a title? Why? What for? What would they do with that money? Swanky graphics? Their audience doesn't care. Expensive voice actors? No thank you. Big PR campaign? Fuck off.

 

[Lexx]

I have to say, expecially a new Arcanum title could sell pretty good (in my opinion) if the graphic is shiny. Why? Because as far as I can see it, Steampunk will have a gib coming out in the next time. You see more and more Steampunk stuff in the internet, also more and more games are jumping up on the train.

If Bethesda would grab Arcanum and pull it up like the next new Oblivion-like "RPG", then I bet that it would sell very well. (Just like Fallout 3, heh)

This doesn't mean that I want this to happen... I am the last person who wants this.

 

[Serge 13]

Let's just hope that they aren't talking about an Arcanum sequel!..my god!
Sierra entertainment...don't do this to us please!

EDIT: says the guy who has the "Played Fallout 3 and kinda liked it" achievement!

 

[MrBumble]

Also, Zeno Clash will kick your ass
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX0jxT03x3U[/youtube]

Looks like a crossover between Giants : Citizen Kabuto and Dark Messiah of M&M. ME WANTS !!!

 

[Morbus]

Dark Messiah of Might & Magic has good, enjoyable FPP melee combat.

No it doesn't. It's chaotic and click-slash-click-slah-repetitive. Kick here and there and little else.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

Mount & Blade has over-the-shoulder/FP melee combat, and it is absolutely cumstain brilliant.

Also, Zeno Clash will kick your ass
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX0jxT03x3U[/youtube]

(they actually discuss the whole FPS and melee thing here)

M&B is primarily 3P though...

I generally agree that it is hard to make an enjoyable melee action game in FP because it's harder to do the physics, and in general the player doesn't get as good a feel of the character's movement and actions. Putting any kind of complex combos into an FP game would turn out atrocious, and without them it turns into a senseless clickfest. That's why 3P melee games like Bloodrayne or DMC are more popular.

 

[zenbitz]

Mount & Blade has over-the-shoulder/FP melee combat, and it is absolutely cumstain brilliant.

What is over-the-shoulder about that - seems utterly vanilla to me.

Oh, and "yay I have really long arms"

 

[Dionysus]

Don't be silly, Crni. The "no one has tried it yet" argument is valid, but not for investing 20 million USD into a niche title. They're niche for a reason, and there's enough market research floating about there that would make one think that won't change.

Yeah, and it's not just hypothetical. Games like Diablo and Doom didn't have much better graphics than games like Fallout and System Shock, but there was still a clear preference for the former titles when you look at sales. If you want to make a game that aims at the right of the bell curve, then you need to either charge more or cut costs, because the middle of the curve is much taller.

I have to say, expecially a new Arcanum title could sell pretty good (in my opinion) if the graphic is shiny. Why? Because as far as I can see it, Steampunk will have a gib coming out in the next time. You see more and more Steampunk stuff in the internet, also more and more games are jumping up on the train.

I don't don't think there's a very big market for steampunk. And it might be my personal bias, but I think Arcanum's stuffy Victorian style would be downright off-putting to the mainstream. I could see something western like The Wild Wild West becoming somewhat popular, but I don't think Arcanum's setting would be a big hit with a lot of gamers. The safer bet for Beth would be generic sci-fi, supernatural, or even super-hero.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Don't be silly, Crni. The "no one has tried it yet" argument is valid, but not for investing 20 million USD into a niche title. They're niche for a reason, and there's enough market research floating about there that would make one think that won't change.

There's nothing wrong with proposing the gaming industry finds an alternative to the current dichotomy between mainstream AAA must-sell-1-million-to-break-even games and the indie games. Heck, I'd say the industry needs to be looking at B-Roll titles (and note that Fallout and PS:T were B-roll titles, not AAA titles, though the distinction was fuzzier back then), fair enough, but investing 20 million into such a title? Why? What for? What would they do with that money? Swanky graphics? Their audience doesn't care. Expensive voice actors? No thank you. Big PR campaign? Fuck off.

Well Fallout 1 did spend a lot on very well made voice actors as it was one of the first games that really want to make here somewhat a difference.

I would know a lot of things that could be spend on a "RGP" that is not aiming mainly to be a mainstream title. AI for example, and not only for "combat" mind you, the NPCs, dynamic conversations and more. Graphic or the engine could be incorporated with the gameplay like physics and such. I mean Fallout 1 achieved with its technology talking heads that easily can compete with "Fallout 3s faces". One can only imagine what could be achieved today with the same . That all have been done only for a niche title? I dont know it rankly. But I just dont support the idea "hardcore RPGs" in the range of Arcanum or Fallout would be niche games. Planescape maybe.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

Mount & Blade has over-the-shoulder/FP melee combat, and it is absolutely cumstain brilliant.

Also, Zeno Clash will kick your ass

(they actually discuss the whole FPS and melee thing here)

Zeno Clash looks pretty amazing but Mount & Blade isn't up to DMC level, IMO, though it is pretty decent. Zeno Clash's camera movement (something he talks about) is really where I can see problems being created. I think that it'll work better for some folks than others but I see the possibility of it being headache inducing. Still, the game looks good and fresh, both aesthetically and mechanically, so I might have to pick it up.

I still didn't see any clue about whether or not it a addresses my biggest question with FPP melee games, does it do large, sweeping attacks well? Part of the reason that I feel that TPP is so good for melee combat is because of the wider view range which allows the player to see where enemies are and hit them with wide, sweeping attacks (like slashing with a sword).

 

[TheRatKing]

I still didn't see any clue about whether or not it a addresses my biggest question with FPP melee games, does it do large, sweeping attacks well? Part of the reason that I feel that TPP is so good for melee combat is because of the wider view range which allows the player to see where enemies are and hit them with wide, sweeping attacks (like slashing with a sword).

This bugs me all the time in M&B.

If you have a huge sword, you should be able to hit more than one enemy at a time with a sweep attack.

 

[Wooz]

Most of the blow's energy would 'stop' at the first target it encounters, no?

It'd have to cut clean through the first hit to deal any kind of damage to the next.