Bethesda's Lore Recons

[kelveen]

Would bottle caps be relatively easy to find?
Wouldn't a lot of that stuff have been destroyed or wouldn't they be pretty easily damaged and degraded over the years?
Not to mention how bulky they would all get depending on how much you were carrying.
I guess there might be bottling plants active or remnants of them. But then would creating new bottle caps like that
be like creating counterfeit money? Or would it be regulated somehow even though bottle caps do have a primary function
not related to money systems/bartering?

I can't think of anything else in the series that would have been a good use for currency. Currency was needed.
You cant use Tulips, Sticks, or grain of sand as currency, obviously. Also, F1 was at a stage of early rebuilding. Theres not much machinery, active machinery, requiring tinkering etc etc. I thought it was a well thought, logical use of currency.

Talking about regulations etc etc was to early in the archaic build up of the world. The other alternative was a trade basis, where they discuss and find a middle ground on perceived values of the item (rather than currency), but i am not sure how that could have been implemented during that time.

Actually by Fallout 2, the money are NCR dollars "$" that appear to be gold coins or something.
And there's even an in-game joke quest about it with bottle caps in it. I checked the wiki and the description for the item is given:
"These are worthless bottle caps. You've heard that at one time they were used as money, though you suspect its only a story."

New Vegas also has caps, but mostly because Fallout 3 did. And even then, the NCR and the Legion were minting their own money. The NCR had paper bills while the Legion had gold and silver coins. And there's a side quest where one of the merchant companies ask you to shut down the Sunset Sarsaparilla's bottle cap press because they don't want the currency to devalue any further.

Even so, it's a notably silly piece of lore. The NCR has had the technology to produce their own AR-15 looking service rifles for quite some by the events of New Vegas. So using caps as money sounds incredibly unwise.

Cheers for the post. I totally forgot about NCR own form of currency. But why is Caps still silly.
I am sure i am not the only one that thinks Currency and its evolution in-game in F1, F2 and FNV shows a form of growth of its world and its society.
I mean when i can imagine loosely how the NCR is becoming a Nation, and building its own currency control. Its still logical.

If currency couldnt be created, controlled and distribute, you are really only left with whats available in the world, or the most archaic, bartering on goods vs goods level.

Lastly, there is no standard dominations of the currency used in the states. You do not use US dollar in Singapore and vice versa. Until it is controlled, caps will still be used as a primary to anything that is not NCR, Legion, Institure, Enclave related. And it might not be caps, but obviously fallout has not explored beyond that. I also dont think all non governed societies will automatically rely on caps as a currency, and you got me there.

 

[Someguy37]

You just flip flop on your excuses so much. Now them not sending them to a battle zone is what makes sense, yet you literary said the opposite before. Also flying those "incomplete, and potentially deadly, flying vehicle, hooked up with a nuclear reactor" over civilian areas is smart? THat is just stupid, makes even less sense. If something they would probably fly those over unpopulated areas like a Desert, not over posh cul de sac suburbs.

Also I played the game, I beat it, it wasn't hit by that many nukes and the city is mostly unscathed, specially the Military forts. Most of the damage is only on the Glowing sea.

Who says they were secret? The previous games? If there were already regular VTOL aircrafts why not use those then? Why contradict canon senselessly with Vertibirds suddenly being so common all around Boston?

I am going to be totally honest here, do you understand there is thing called severity? You do understand there is a difference between sending some into battle, and sending something into THE biggest battle of the war? Like, all of your questions are answerable, and shouldn't even be questions in the first place, if you understood what severity was.

Most of every city is unscathed, for the same reason. The Fallout universe had largely given up on megaton+ nukes before the war, opting for far lower yield bombs, that produced more radiation, but had a limited explosive force. That's why the Boneyard is still the "Boneyard" and not "the empty plain of metal", and why D.C. and Boston are still mostly intact like L.A. is. You are asking questions about things that were explained in canon as far back as Fallout 1 now.

Nothing in the previous games says they were secret. In fact, The Museum of History in Fallout 3 even had an exhibit to them, and nowhere in Fallout 2, the only game before Fallout 3 to have them, does it say it was a top secret project before the war. You are literally pulling that out of your ass.

And your question about why not use the other VTOL aircraft is hilarious. By that logic, why should we have developed more types of guns past the first one? We already have that gun, why not use that one? Ohh yeah, its because people.... you know.... like to make improvements to things? Like... did you even think before you asked that question?

 

[Walpknut]

They should just ditch Bottlecaps at this point. FO4 has an entire "component" system in place yet people are still trading with Bottlecaps. If it was something like people trading in Metal and Bottlecaps just being a small source of it would be acceptable. Otherwise the bottlecap usage is now just silly at this point, even New Vegas had to handwave it a bunch to justify it's return despite FO2 already phasing them for the gold chips and the Redding Mine Scrips. Hell the Legion and the NCR have their own coin in New Vegas, they probably only used the Bottlecaps because there was no time to implement a wholenother currency system.

I am going to be totally honest here, do you understand there is thing called severity? You do understand there is a difference between sending some into battle, and sending something into THE biggest battle of the war? Like, all of your questions are answerable, and shouldn't even be questions in the first place, if you understood what severity was.

Most of every city is unscathed, for the same reason. The Fallout universe had largely given up on megaton+ nukes before the war, opting for far lower yield bombs, that produced more radiation, but had a limited explosive force. That's why the Boneyard is still the "Boneyard" and not "the empty plain of metal", and why D.C. and Boston are still mostly intact like L.A. is. You are asking questions about things that were explained in canon as far back s Fallout 1 now.

Nothing in the previous games says they were secret, the museum of history in Fallout 3 even had an exhibit to them, and nowhere in Fallout 2, the only game before Fallout 3 to have them, does it say it was a top secret project before the war.

I understand that you flip flop on your answers a lot. Also you are balantly saying things that are contradicted by canon, nothing in FO1 justifies the unscathed stated of Boston, nothing at all. The narration even says that the world burned down to cinders, no major city in FO1 or 2 was presented as unscathed. LA is not unscathed what are you smoking? It's literary called the Boneyard, they don't have big monuments still standing like FO4 has. It's even stated "places such as Orange County on the outskirts being left as craters."

Also, Fallout 2 directly states that the Enclave appropiated all the Vertibird Prototypes before the war. The only sources that contradict this are SURPRISE the Bethesda games.... which makes them RETCONS.

 

[DVL]

Oh I edited my original post.
What I mean to say is that caps wouldn't persist as a form of money. I don't have a problem with it in Fallout 1. And by Fallout 2 I remember the coins being rather scarce and you'd still stow your weighty valuables in the car. But even so, it paid service to the fact that the NCR was a growing power nationally. And I really enjoyed that New Vegas seriously explored that story arc.

On reflection, I think New Vegas intended the bottle cap counterfeiting thing to be an extended quest line because there's a shack for it that's called a counterfeiting operation, but it seems to serve no purpose in the game. And I think it was meant to underscore that the Mojave is extremely vulnerable to conquest. It's not hard to press bottle caps with the level of civilization and technology that's available to all the factions by this point. Any party with half-a-brain could manipulate the currency if they so chose.

 

[Dr Fallout]

You just flip flop on your excuses so much. Now them not sending them to a battle zone is what makes sense, yet you literary said the opposite before. Also flying those "incomplete, and potentially deadly, flying vehicle, hooked up with a nuclear reactor" over civilian areas is smart? THat is just stupid, makes even less sense. If something they would probably fly those over unpopulated areas like a Desert, not over posh cul de sac suburbs.

Also I played the game, I beat it, it wasn't hit by that many nukes and the city is mostly unscathed, specially the Military forts. Most of the damage is only on the Glowing sea.

Who says they were secret? The previous games? If there were already regular VTOL aircrafts why not use those then? Why contradict canon senselessly with Vertibirds suddenly being so common all around Boston?

I am going to be totally honest here, do you understand there is thing called severity? You do understand there is a difference between sending some into battle, and sending something into THE biggest battle of the war? Like, all of your questions are answerable, and shouldn't even be questions in the first place, if you understood what severity was.

Most of every city is unscathed, for the same reason. The Fallout universe had largely given up on megaton+ nukes before the war, opting for far lower yield bombs, that produced more radiation, but had a limited explosive force. That's why the Boneyard is still the "Boneyard" and not "the empty plain of metal", and why D.C. and Boston are still mostly intact like L.A. is. You are asking questions about things that were explained in canon as far back as Fallout 1 now.

Nothing in the previous games says they were secret. In fact, The Museum of History in Fallout 3 even had an exhibit to them, and nowhere in Fallout 2, the only game before Fallout 3 to have them, does it say it was a top secret project before the war. You are literally pulling that out of your ass.

And your question about why not use the other VTOL aircraft is hilarious. By that logic, why should we have developed more types of guns past the first one? We already have that gun, why not use that one? Ohh yeah, its because people.... you know.... like to make improvements to things? Like... did you even think before you asked that question?

Yeah, you pull out Fallout 3 which retconned so much original lore and made some explanations out of it's ass. Great references. Still legitimate but ones taken with a grain (no spoon) of salt.

 

[Someguy37]

Yeah, you pull out Fallout 3 which retconned so much original lore and made some explanations out of it's ass. Great references. Still legitimate but ones taken with a grain (no spoon) of salt.

Tim Cain has said otherwise, but w/e.

I know Fallout 3 gets treated like the big bad boggy man next to BoS so I'm not going to bother.

 

[kelveen]

Oh I edited my original post.
What I mean to say is that caps wouldn't persist as a form of money. I don't have a problem with it in Fallout 1. And by Fallout 2 I remember the coins being rather scarce and you'd still stow your weighty valuables in the car. But even so, it paid service to the fact that the NCR was a growing power nationally. And I really enjoyed that New Vegas seriously explored that story arc.

On reflection, I think New Vegas intended the bottle cap counterfeiting thing to be an extended quest line because there's a shack for it that's called a counterfeiting operation, but it seems to serve no purpose in the game. And I think it was meant to underscore that the Mojave is extremely vulnerable to conquest. It's not hard to press bottle caps with the level of civilization and technology that's available to all the factions by this point.

Ah, ok i get what you mean. I agree that it cannot persist as a proper form of currency in the long run. I remember the NV quest as well.

I still think caps should be used in FO4 (Not extensively) and in future games, but less frequently, because i see it as a sympton of division across the wasteland. The more established the currency, becomes a sign there is a established governance of sorts.

 

[Walpknut]

Tim Cain has never said anything on the Fallout 3 not having retcons. He was actually disappointed about their recycle of factions despite him being vaguely positive about it.

 

[Someguy37]

Tim Cain has never said anything on the Fallout 3 not having retcons. He was actually disappointed about their recycle of factions despite him being vaguely positive about it.

He said they got the universe and lore right, with the note that he wouldn't have used FEV and super mutants, since FEV was supposed to be localized to the west coast.

But even then, he said it was a stretch, rather then an actual lore break.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Tim Cain has never said anything on the Fallout 3 not having retcons. He was actually disappointed about their recycle of factions despite him being vaguely positive about it.

He said they got the universe and lore right, with the note that he wouldn't have used FEV and super mutants, since FEV was supposed to be localized to the west coast.

But even then, he said it was a stretch, rather then an actual lore break.

Of course, he can't just say it's all wrong and bad. Why? Because it ruins credibility.

 

[Someguy37]

Of course, he can't just say it's all wrong and bad. Why? Because it ruins credibility.

It doesn't ruin credibility to say you didn't like something. Devs talk shit about each other all the time, with zero consequences.

The idea he was doing it for "credibility" is easily one of the most retarded, baseless, and fallacious conspiracy theories I have heard in regards to games. It reeks of desperation of trying to find some way to excuse Tim Cain of liking Fallout 3.

Which is ironic because he even openly mocked the people who did that when he was asked the question.

 

[Walpknut]

Tim Cainn has neversaid it got the world right, he actually said he thought New Vegas captured it better. He praised the "envirormental narrative" aspect. He oddly praised VATS which, okay different strokes, he also railed against the ending and it's complete lack of multiple endings for settlements. He has also criticized their recycling of FEV and the Enclave. Nothing of what he said even relates to the way FO3 handled canon, if something he seems to be mostly negative on that aspect instead enjoying the visual details and the level design.

He also didn't "Openly mock" anyone, he said that it might surprise some of his fans who expected him to have an entirely negative opinion.

 

[Someguy37]

Tim Cainn has neversaid it got the world right,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4XVW6qcuzM
Begins at 1:51
-I enjoyed playing the game.
-I thought they did a good job understanding what the universe was like, and then setting a different kind of game in it.
-They understood SPECIAL
-I think they did a good job understanding the lore of the game, I think they got a lot of that done well.

He says they did a good job understanding the universe and lore of the game, as well as SPECIAL.

He also didn't "Openly mock" anyone, he said that it might surprise some of his fans who expected him to have an entirely negative opinion.

He literally chuckled when he was talking about his fans being disappointed that he liked the game. The idea that people do that is funny to him.

 

[Walpknut]

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=8416

Updated version for ya, buddy.

 

[DarkCorp]

Tim made it plenty apparent F3s design choices were ones that he would NOT have made. He also, as Walp pointed out, said that FNV did a much better job in what makes Fallout, Fallout.

He also said that F3 was a fun, action/shooter hybrid, that was streamlined for the masses. He liked the 'art', yet hated the endings.

Essentially, its a fun, Michael Bay explosive fest with Tarantino gunplay. Also, really cool art. It succeeded greatly as a shallow cash cow but thats about it.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Of course, he can't just say it's all wrong and bad. Why? Because it ruins credibility.

It doesn't ruin credibility to say you didn't like something. Devs talk shit about each other all the time, with zero consequences.

The idea he was doing it for "credibility" is easily one of the most retarded, baseless, and fallacious conspiracy theories I have heard in regards to games. It reeks of desperation of trying to find some way to excuse Tim Cain of liking Fallout 3.

Which is ironic because he even openly mocked the people who did that when he was asked the question.

Give me a concrete example of well known devs talking shit of each other, please.

I don't care if he likes it or not but if a well known dev is asked a question whether he likes something he cannot just say it's bad. I didn't say he did it for credibility but I did say that shit talking devs doesn't get you popularity points. You realize there are bigger conspiracy theories you can say are stupid.

 

[DVL]

I should mention that Fallout 1 happened 84 years after the Great War and that The Boneyard is so-named because the metal girder frames are all that's left of the skyscrapers. By Fallout 3, more than 200 years have passed. Boston looks way better than it has any right to.

The rest of California and Nevada are mostly just a desert with nothing in it. The few settlements that exist are things like mining shanties, farm towns with quite of number newly-made adobe structures you find in the reused art assets of FO1 and FO2. There is the art for burned-out buildings with their ground level floors intact but most everything else in the wastes are far from "intact." Put simply, most cities don't exist anymore. The vast majority of settlements in the first two games are entirely new constructions with a few exceptions.

In most of the early years of Fallout's southwest you could probably expect to find . . . sand . . . sand . . . more sand. And oh there's a crumbling wall and maybe what's left of a foundation over there. We're talking about the kind of nuclear payload that would turn most of the southwest into what could, without exaggeration, be called a wasteland.

 

[Someguy37]

I didn't say he did it for credibility

Of course, he can't just say it's all wrong and bad. Why? Because it ruins credibility.

If you are going to bold face lie, you might want to edit your post before hand so it cant be so easily used against you.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=8416

Updated version for ya, buddy.

Which is in no way different then what he said before. That one game captured the feel of the Fallout universe better then another doesn't mean the other didn't either.

Can you go one post without making a fallacious and backwards argument that makes no sense?

 

[Dr Fallout]

I didn't say he did it for credibility

Of course, he can't just say it's all wrong and bad. Why? Because it ruins credibility.

If you are going to bold face lie, you might want to edit your post before hand so it cant be so easily used against you.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=8416

Updated version for ya, buddy.

Which is in no way different then what he said before.

I didn't say HE did it for credibility, I said that you can shit talk others because it ruins credibility.

 

[Someguy37]

I didn't say HE did it for credibility, I said that you can shit talk others because it ruins credibility.

If you weren't implying that he didn't did it becuase of his credability then the entire comment was meaningless as it had nothing to do with Tim Cain and what he said.

We call what you just did moving goalposts.