Bethesda's Lore Recons

[Irwin John Finster]

In fact, I think that might make for some decent writing - meeting someone who did such a thing in the Commonwealth or D.C. Wasteland, who knew of Myron's invention and learned how to manufacture it.

Wasn't there a ghoul in some metro in Fallout 3 that learned how jet was made, and then started making an advanced version of it, ultra jet, because normal jet didn't do much for ghouls?

IIRC, he had some endless repeatable task were you could bring him sugar BAWMBSSSS!!!!! for caps since he needed them to make jet into ultra jet.

Then ultra jet somehow got to the mojave in the 4 years between Fo3 and NV, as it was sold by at least one merchant that I can remember.

That is correct. I think the ghoul's name is Murphy and he's found in one of the underground metro tunnels in Fallout 3. He manufactured Ultra Jet by using standard Jet, Sugarbombs, and Abraxo Cleaner.

 

[DarkCorp]

There was a reason why the BoS had to use airships, just to get to the MW from Cali. It was still retarded but meh, spinoff.

I mean Beth could have used some tanker MCGuffin like 2, and took the sea route. Thats even more believable.

Beth kicked crazy up to 11 and simply said they MARCHED to DC. As if bridges and parts of the earth hadn't been changed by the nukes. You have collapsed buildings, rockslides, mudslides, missing roads, etc.

And yes, radioactive twisters/storms, deathclaws, the retreating SM army, the early legion raiders, etc.

I forget if Beth treats Tactics as canon or not but even with the peace of the MW chapter, they do not control territory all the way to DC.

Like I said, the Enclave could have brought/started their own operations. Or someone else invented the same damned thing. I am not being inflexible here but the reasons have to make sense besides, Beth said so.

 

[Monco]

There was a reason why the BoS had to use airships, just to get to the MW from Cali. It was still retarded but meh, spinoff.

I mean Beth could have used some tanker MCGuffin like 2, and took the sea route. Thats even more believable.

Beth kicked crazy up to 11 and simply said they MARCHED to DC. As if bridges and parts of the earth hadn't been changed by the nukes. You have collapsed buildings, rockslides, mudslides, missing roads, etc.

And yes, radioactive twisters/storms, deathclaws, the retreating SM army, the early legion raiders, etc.

I forget if Beth treats Tactics as canon or not but even with the peace of the MW chapter, they do not control territory all the way to DC.

Like I said, the Enclave could have brought/started their own operations. Or someone else invented the same damned thing. I am not being inflexible here but the reasons have to make sense besides, Beth said so.

People traveled across the country before there were any roads at all, it's really not impossible for the BoS to have marched across the US. Lewis and Clark traveled across most of the US in about a year and a half, and they had muzzle-loading muskets and almost zero idea what they were going to find. The BoS has laser rifles and presumably had archives of pre-war maps.

 

[Ilosar]

Kellogg appears to have managed the journey from California to the Commonwealth. There are a few other examples in the game that make it sound like it's not necessarily a rare feat.

I of course understand what you're saying - it's not exactly simple crossing a post-nuclear wasteland from one coast to another - but the game indicates people are doing it. And all it takes is one enterprising young man or women to make the journey - with the Brotherhood, the Enclave, by themselves, with raiders, whatever - and start selling and manufacturing the Jet they discovered on the West Coast to start a new operation on the East Coast. It actually seems like a pretty good idea considering how hard it must be to earn a reasonable living in such a post-apocalyptic world. If facing poverty and death, it's not a stretch someone would decide to take Myron's invention and set up an independent operation where there is a new market for it in order to find a new life and earn a living in post-nuclear America. For example, they might move a little bit east - to Nevada. Then someone else might take it further. And so on until the drug reaches the East Coast.

In fact, I think that might make for some decent writing - meeting someone who did such a thing in the Commonwealth or D.C. Wasteland, who knew of Myron's invention and learned how to manufacture it.

Ah, I forgot about Kellogg. I see what you mean. If someone took with them the know how to manufacture Jet on the East coast - no matter who, rather than there being a constant trade caravan run of the stuff from New Reno to a region distributor, I'll accept it as plausible.

That was always my interpretation. They don't import the stuff from New Reno, they just make their own on the East Coast. Once you know it is basically glorified Brahmin shit, it wouldn't be that hard to manufacture, and the secret spilling out over time is plausible. It's not like the Mordino's farm had airtight security.

 

[Someguy37]

snip

When was it ever stated they HAD to use airships to get to the Midwest from California?

Tactics only says they built them to track down the fleeing super mutant horde, and its not like the super mutants had to use airships to get into the Midwest themselves. And we have seen/heard the land between Cali and the Midwest in New Vegas. You certainly don't need airships to cross the mojave, nor do you need them to go from one end of Caesar's lands to the others, as Caesar manages to do so without them.

They didn't use airships because they HAD to, they used them because they were very useful at covering large distances in a short amount of time, and it gave them a tactical advantage over the super mutants.

 

[Walpknut]

My only problem with Bethesda handling of Jet is that they obviously have no fucking clue about the lore and they keep writting it as a prewar drug. Hell in Fo4 you even make it out of fertilizer instead of having to feed Brahmin with a specific chemical and THEN collecting their dung to use the fumes.

 

[DarkCorp]

Same here. Brought by the enclave or discovered by an east coast chemist but named differently, would be believable.

L and C subsisted primarily from game and the tribes they TRADED with. Unless the BoS contingent also carried with them extra food and water (the shiny baubles trick won't work with the starving), it can be assumed they had little to no help from the natives.

Maps don't work when your routes no longer exist such as collapsed bridges or tunnels. The BoS would have wasted a great deal of time and resources, constantly having to backtrack and detour around when their plan a failed. Rad X and Rad Away only last for so long.

Also, L/C made extensive use of water borne transport. I have said a sea route would be more believable. Power armor is not going to make a canoe trip possible.

 

[DarkCorp]

Uh, the Lyons trip happened 7 years after Sallow was sent to AZ, in 2247. At the time, The Legion was barely a thing.

New Vegas was 4 years after F3, which took place in 2277.

NCR expanded, sure. But that was only IN CA itself. This was done with supplh lines close to home. We are talking a cross country trek here.

SMs are naturally tough, rad resistant (not dependent on rad x or rad away), it was an ARMY, and I am assuming didn't make it very far or stopped entirely at the Mojave/MW.

 

[Beaushizzle]

The settlers on the Oregon trail made it in covered wagons without bridges or decent roads under constant threat of native American attacks and disease.

 

[TorontoReign]

The settlers on the Oregon trail made it in covered wagons without bridges or decent roads under constant threat of native American attacks and disease.

I bet they didn't encounter Deathclaws, Radioactive tornados, Super Mutants, and a much harsher environment that makes it harder to find food and water.

 

[DarkCorp]

And how many died in the process? The westward expansion was continuous with many countless braving the trip, over the course of years.

We are talking a single brotherhood expedition, not a continous BoS raid/military/settlement campaign over a multi year period.

 

[Someguy37]

SMs are tough, rad resistant, and I am assuming didn't make it very far or stopped entirely at the Mojave/MW.

Then what path do you think the super mutants took to the Midwest then?

The Mojave is a pretty big desert, and takes up a fairly good chunk of land
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...esert_map.svg/800px-Mojave_Desert_map.svg.png

Unless you are suggesting the went into northern California, then passed through northern Nevada, and then into Utah? Which wouldn't make sense as such a thing was never mentioned in Fallout 2. The Master, and his super mutant army, were primarily in southern California, they would have HAD to pass through the mojave desert to get to the Midwest.

After leaving the mojave they would have most likely ended up in Arizona, and then taken highway 40, which we know is intact since its mentioned the Legion uses it, until they got into New Mexico, then they would have likely taken the 25 north into Colorado, and passed by Colorado Springs, where they awakened The Calculator, and then went east from there until they reached Osceola.

 

[DarkCorp]

Thats a whole lot of travelling, past 40. Even if we take into account them reaching Colorado and TX, they are nowhere close to DC.

So yea, Lyons merry trek would have been a lot more believable had they taken some tanker/cargo hauler around the southern tip of america and rounded north.

 

[Monco]

And how many died in the process? The westward expansion was continuous with many countless braving the trip, over the course of years.

We are talking a single brotherhood expedition, not a continous BoS raid/military/settlement campaign over a multi year period.

Out of 31 people on the Lewis and Clark expedition only one died (i.e. 3%). The expedition had almost no idea what they were going to find, had no maps, and were armed with muzzle-loading single shot muskets. Even accounting for deathclaws and other dangers, it's not at all out of the realm of possibility that a BoS expedition could make it to DC with acceptable losses.

 

[DarkCorp]

L/C had native help/guides. They also made a lot of progress by river, which helps immensely. L/C also had maps from the rare trips made by folks before, who also had the same help most likely.

The BoS are operating on extremely dated maps, the last were made pre 2077, 223 years ago. Their itinerary is most likely based on maps alone.

Power armor requires maintenance. It can survive alot but tornados? Even if we take the F4 armor breakage idea, the expedition would be going through supplies at a monstrous rate, repairing armor from all sorts of attacks or parts wearing out.

If not, PA and highly advanced weapons need maintenance and parts from wear. This is a long ass journey we are talking about.

 

[Ilosar]

And how many died in the process? The westward expansion was continuous with many countless braving the trip, over the course of years.

We are talking a single brotherhood expedition, not a continous BoS raid/military/settlement campaign over a multi year period.

Out of 31 people on the Lewis and Clark expedition only one died (i.e. 3%). The expedition had almost no idea what they were going to find, had no maps, and were armed with muzzle-loading single shot muskets. Even accounting for deathclaws and other dangers, it's not at all out of the realm of possibility that a BoS expedition could make it to DC with acceptable losses.

True. My beef is more akin to ''why in the blazes would you even bother going there?'' but a numerous group of heavily armed, armored and motivated BoS soldiers is nothing to scoff at. The only thing that can pose a credible threat to them are a human faction more numerous than them, and from what know there are none of those east of the Mojave, and the Legion doesn't exist at its full power yet.

 

[Monco]

L/C had native help/guides. They also made a lot of progress by river, which helps immensely. L/C also had maps from the rare trips made by folks before, who also had the same help most likely.

The BoS are operating on extremely dated maps, the last were made pre 2077, 223 years old. They had to bring their own supplies as well.

Is there any reason the BoS couldn't get help from natives or they couldn't hunt for game to supplement their food supply. Also, major features like mountains, hills, and rivers aren't going to change after the apocalypse or 200 years of time, even if many of the roads are no longer passable, so the BoS still had a lot more info than L&C ever did.

 

[Someguy37]

Thats a whole lot of travelling, past 40. Even if we take into account them reaching Colorado and TX, they are nowhere close to DC.

What I am saying is this
http://i.imgur.com/3GZGwkL.png
The only real distance without established trade routes by the time Lyons left was the four states area, which isn't that much of a shithole as even the primitive tribal groups that the legion took over managed to survive there, and we know from NV that the highway system there is still fairly intact, as The Legion uses it themselves.

All Lyons would have had to do was take the 40 to New Mexico, go up into Colorado on the 25, then he would have had fairly easy travel all the way until Indiana.

The only difficult part would have been the American rust belt between Indiana and The Pitt, but once he hit the Pitt it isn't that much of a jog to D.C., and we know poorly armed slavers manage to go from D.C. to The Pitt on a regular basis, so it cant be THAT difficult.

and before anyone asks, I am basing the Midwest stuff off of whats shown on the ending of Tactics. With Chicago added in, because they left that out on the end game map for some reason.
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net...utral_6.png/revision/latest?cb=20121208190318

 

[DarkCorp]

Mountains often have been tunneled through. Those can collapse.

The natives/tribals, without rad protection, poorly armed and armored, would not be making extensive trips outside their small area of living, but ok, I'll concede it. They could hunt weird mutations for food, ok.

But parts to repair and manage their advanced tech, tornados which can lift buses and cars, rad supplies natives/tribals wouldn't have. Thats another problem all together.

Someguy:

Beth logic just works on, it happened because we said so. Tactics is the same. But if we are to operate on their logic then yea, they turned what would have been an extremely difficult to make and justify expedition into a trip with numerous rest stops in MW brotherhood territory.

 

[Someguy37]

Beth logic just works on, it happened because we said so. Tactics is the same. But if we are to operate on their logic then yea, they turned what would have been an extremely difficult to make and justify expedition into a trip with numerous rest stops in MW brotherhood territory.

While that is true for a lot of things, I really do thing you are greatly overstating the difficulty of cross country travel for an entire battalion of highly trained, power armored, laser weaponry equipped, techno cultists.

Its obviously not that difficult as someone had to bring to Wasteland Survival Guide into the mojave, in large numbers, in just 4 years, as well as Ultra Jet. Not to mention Ed-E, a poorly armed/armored(not taking game HP scaling for companions) robot also made the trip from D.C. to the mojave in the same time, by itself.