Bioshock Infinite

CthuluIsSpy said:
[spoiler:087c04a341] I didn't miss the point. I know that all realities with Comstock are erased. However, if all realities with Comstock are erased throughout time, then there could be nothing to trigger their deletion. Remember that the Elizabeth we know is a product of Comstock's timeline. Hence a paradox [/spoiler:087c04a341]
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[spoiler:087c04a341]The paradox is the point. In theory, quantumphysical interdimensional paradoxes like that "delete" themselves, kind of like an equal amount of matter and antimatter make eachother disappear. As the only choice that now does not create a paradox is Booker refusing the baptism (or dying before the baptism etc.), this is now the only choice that can be made, as the other choice would lead to a paradox and hence delete itself.[/spoiler:087c04a341]
 
Jebus said:
CthuluIsSpy said:
[spoiler:46326ccebc] I didn't miss the point. I know that all realities with Comstock are erased. However, if all realities with Comstock are erased throughout time, then there could be nothing to trigger their deletion. Remember that the Elizabeth we know is a product of Comstock's timeline. Hence a paradox [/spoiler:46326ccebc]
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[spoiler:46326ccebc]The paradox is the point. In theory, quantumphysical interdimensional paradoxes like that "delete" themselves, kind of like an equal amount of matter and antimatter make eachother disappear. As the only choice that now does not create a paradox is Booker refusing the baptism (or dying before the baptism etc.), this is now the only choice that can be made, as the other choice would lead to a paradox and hence delete itself.[/spoiler:46326ccebc]
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Oh ok. That makes sense.
 
Jebus said:
It's also known as the grandfather paradox, but then made infinitely more complex by quantum physics.
I don't claim to (really) understand quantum physics either, though.
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Yes, that is what I was thinking of.

That may be why I don't like the plot all that much; I really don't like paradoxes. Even if they do somehow "resolve" themselves.
 
CthuluIsSpy said:
Tagaziel said:
Jebus said:
I don't claim to (really) understand quantum physics either, though.
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The consensus among physicists is that if you understand quantum physics, you don't.
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So that must mean if you don't understand quantum physics you do :lol:
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Wait, isn't that a paradox?

*deletes itself*
 
Hahaha oh god that's hilarious. Out of all the things you could get offended by in this game they choose the plot-important baptism to throw a fit about?

It's not even like it's an inaccurate baptism or anything really.
 
Kotaku gonna Kotaku.

I do find it incredible that people get offended by the slightest things in media (not just games), yet accept wanton violence and mass murder just fine. I just love that sentence;

And so in order to actually play BioShock Infinite, one has to press a button to be digitally baptized (if not nearly drowned!)
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Yeah, how intolerable is that?! Being shot at? Fine. Eating rockets? Great. Being thrown around by a giant mechanical monster? Been there, done that. Being forcibly baptised by an obvious religious nut? Unnacceptable!

I think George R.R. Martin, writer of A Song of Ice and Fire; put it best, basically saying; ''I've received a lot of complaints about my descriptions of a penis entering a vagina, but none about my descriptions of an axe entering a head, for some strange reason''. We're just so used to violence in media.

There's absolutely tons of examples too. Remember the hissy fit Fox News threw at Mass Effect because you could see side-bewbies? This being the game where you can melt human beings while they scream?
 
They called Mass Effect a Rape simulator despite the fact that as little softsoftsoftcore sex there was, was consentual.
 
I did kinda feel annoyed that there was no way around the baptism. And also fairly annoyed by Booker's scripted reactions. Once it's clear you have to commit to it, Booker's reluctance doesn't make much sense (save for his braindamage ;) ).

But well, that's the choice of the developer. Merely annoying/irritating at the start and quickly forgotten.
 
Ilosar said:
Kotaku gonna Kotaku.

I do find it incredible that people get offended by the slightest things in media (not just games), yet accept wanton violence and mass murder just fine. I just love that sentence;

And so in order to actually play BioShock Infinite, one has to press a button to be digitally baptized (if not nearly drowned!)
Click to expand...

Yeah, how intolerable is that?! Being shot at? Fine. Eating rockets? Great. Being thrown around by a giant mechanical monster? Been there, done that. Being forcibly baptised by an obvious religious nut? Unnacceptable!

I think George R.R. Martin, writer of A Song of Ice and Fire; put it best, basically saying; ''I've received a lot of complaints about my descriptions of a penis entering a vagina, but none about my descriptions of an axe entering a head, for some strange reason''. We're just so used to violence in media.

There's absolutely tons of examples too. Remember the hissy fit Fox News threw at Mass Effect because you could see side-bewbies? This being the game where you can melt human beings while they scream?
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yeah well, if people would actually read the bible instead of just memorizing it they would realize that the Bible is probably one of the unholiest books ever. It is a book filled with stories about sex, sins, violance in many ways, slavery, even people that sell their soul to the devil. All in the Bible. I mean it has to be. Its all the stuff that makes an story entertaining after all.
 
SuAside said:
I did kinda feel annoyed that there was no way around the baptism. And also fairly annoyed by Booker's scripted reactions.
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I haven't finished the game yet but I've been significantly spoiled and was under the impression that

[spoiler:846777b8d0]Booker has to take the baptism in order to become Comstock and found Columbia or something, and in world lines where he refused the baptism Columbia was never founded.[/spoiler:846777b8d0]

Or something like that at least?


Edit: Just finished the game, wrong baptism I guess.


sea said:
This is why you don't make a story that hinges on time travel and infinite dimensions theory. As soon as you spend one second thinking about it, the entire thing falls apart.
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Steins;Gate does it a lot better with barely any plot holes.

To be honest it kind of feels like this wasn't what they had originally planned for the game's plot; rather it's something they came up with about halfway through for le epic plot twist, which would explain how disjointed everything feels. It also feels like a lot of gameplay ideas they had were never fully developed. Overall the entire thing seems like an unfinished mess that was only saved by its stunning art direction.


Edit: Also, Sea, I like your idea about Comstock having been right all along about Booker being the bad guy and then having to play as Comstock to prevent your younger self from leading Elizabeth astray. That would've been a lot better than the actual ending.

They could have just done away with the multiverse shit and instead had Booker stuck in an "Infinite" loop of fighting himself, and, depending on the choices you make in game, you could either get an ending where Comstock manages to defeat Booker and break out of the loop or an ending where he fails and the loop continues for all eternity.

Would've been pretty fucking interesting to have the final boss battle be against the protagonist you spent the entire game playing as.
 
HEADS UP: Minor spoilers below.

Just finished it. Enjoyed the story, loved the atmosphere, understood the ending and kinda liked it (not a big fan of time travelling and alternate realities, but this was done better that anything else I can think of at the moment), got kinda bored with the gameplay. I played on medium difficulty, and I died once. ONCE. Because I shot a rocket at a guy three feet in front of me. I did fall off ledges a few times, but I don't count those because you'll just respawn where you were last standing. But there's always the 1999 mode for next playthrough, I guess. After re-visiting Rapture for a few minutes I got a huge urge to re-install the first Bioshock though. And also System Shock 2. But I always want to play System Shock 2, so no surprise there.

Anyways, as for the story. I felt it was kinda mish-mashed together and didn't exactly follow a good narrative. Mostly due to a lot of wasted opportunities and very much story fit into a pretty short game. I would love to explore the story more in a DLC or two. But on a whole, I did enjoy it quite a lot and it did throw a few surprises my way. I had no problem following the alternate realities theory, but I didn't figure out the Comstock-Booker connection until the game blatantly told me about it. And as for any paradoxes, plot holes etc... well, I'm one of the few who liked the ME3 ending and doesn't feel everything has to fit 100% and be explained in detail. I like walking away with questions and theories of my own. And I absolutley LOVED how they tied the games together. Here's hoping they will sometime in the future manage to tie System Shock into this universe as well :D

Other than that, a bit too linear gameplay. Same old enemies over and over. I was hoping for an epic battle against the Songbird, but nope. Last battle in the game is against the same enemies you've been fighting since the start of the game. Hell, was there even one boss battle? And in-between fighting, there's just endless looting and walking down what pretty much feels like a corridor. Every now and then the game lets you explore, but it's not like there's anything actually hidden or even hard to find. At the end of the game I had unlocked every locked door, chest and safe I could find and I still had a full set of lockpicks on me. And more money than I knew what to do with. Yet another game that actually makes you feel cheated for exploring every part of it.
 
Yeah I didn't really get what the deal was with all the lockpicks everywhere since literally almost every safe or door or whatever had a lockpick or three lying right beside it.
 
aenemic said:
well, I'm one of the few who liked the ME3 ending and doesn't feel everything has to fit 100% and be explained in detail.
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Heresy!

I'm replaying Bioshocks 1 and 2 now, and it's crazy how linear Infinite is compared to those. The Rapture games gave us pretty expansive levels, usually with 2-3 floors no less. Yet a game set in a city in the sky gives us a corridor with some side areas and very obvious arenas where you fight the actual enemies in quasi-set pieces. It's the Crysis 2-3 school of level design, and it doesn't quite fit the exploration side of the gameplay, and it definitely doesn't fit with the freedom one should have in a sprawling airborne metropolis.

Also, I'm probably going to get e-crucified for this, but Bioshock 2 has better gameplay and a much better story than Infinite. The later game has nothing quite like the Big Daddy or Big Sister fights in Rapture.
 
Ilosar said:
Also, I'm probably going to get e-crucified for this, but Bioshock 2 has better gameplay and a much better story than Infinite. The later game has nothing quite like the Big Daddy or Big Sister fights in Rapture.
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Maybe the Handymen were supposed to be like them, who knows.
 
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