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TorontoReign
Guest
Sure, but the notion that kids should see all of this is disturbing. That is shit you see at a strip club or a sex party.
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Climate Change is not real!
- Thread starter Crni Vuk
- Start date
For some reason this argument is often brought up. But how common is that actually? How many transsexual teachers running around half-naked in a class room teaching the children that being gay is ok do you know?
considering the fact how prevalent discrimination and attacks against homosexuals is still present in Russia and not just there, most of the Serbians I know outright want to "exterminate" them, if anything they need it's more of those gay-pride parades.
The reason why they exist is not to "traumatize" children but to be exposed, to show that they are a part of society, that being different particularly as far as your sexuality goes is OK, that they are not invisible. And Russias laws here have absolutely nothing to do with "protecting" children. Not one bit. It's discrimination. Pure and simple.
For a long time I was against this form of promiscuity and display of sexuality as well. But when I think about my own issues with homosexual feelings and how often even 11 year old children tell me that "all homosexuals are sick", I think that we have a far more serious problem here then a few half naked people running around in the street displaying their sexuality openly. Particularly when you consider what kind of sexual stuff children see on a regular basis which doesn't seem to bother anyone. From advertising to movies and TV shows.
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TorontoReign
Guest
So a bunch of retardation. Because you were made to feel insecure as a kid due to being gay, now all kids should see tits and cocks hanging out everywhere. Good to know. Plenty of people have spoken out against the sexualization of our youth. You just never listened to them because they believed in God.
That is how pedophiles groom kids btw. All this gay shit is pretty close.
What I am trying to tell you here is that insecurity with your sexuality happens because no one talks about fucking sexuality and because it's often treated like as it's something dirty and abnormal. The kind of laws Russia decided to put into action against homosexuality is not aimed against "homosexual propaganda" what ever that is, but about education, helping teenagers that struggle with their own sexuality and place in a society which openly attacks gay people. The fact that having homosexual feelings, even as a teenager, is neither abnormal nor wrong and that talking about it isn't wrong or abnormal. That homosexual cuples is not abnormal or wrong. The whole intention behind those laws in Russia is discrimination and not to keep "perverts" out of schools.
What people do out there in the streets - which is more a form of protest - has absolutely zero to do with schools.
Could you please clarify what you're trying to say here in detail? What has this to do with paedophiles? What is the connection here?
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TorontoReign
Guest
My concern is the normalization of sex and nudity and debauchery that all this, for lack of a better word, faggotry, creates is the method pedophiles use to get kids used to being around adults naked, then to fucking them, then to ruining their lives forever.
Your casual dismissal of my concerns means you are more concerned with yourself, as opposed to countless children that can be abused or malformed by widespread fixation on genitals.
I mean why should kids be focused on fucking at 8 anyway? Why should it be in their face? What is more important? Fucking or getting a proper education with no tranny balls hanging out in classrooms?
That was on sale btw.
Your casual dismissal of my concerns means you are more concerned with yourself, as opposed to countless children that can be abused or malformed by widespread fixation on genitals.
I mean why should kids be focused on fucking at 8 anyway? Why should it be in their face? What is more important? Fucking or getting a proper education with no tranny balls hanging out in classrooms?
That was on sale btw.
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Which is not the case by the way since the overwhelming majority of child molesting happens by someone the children know for years and not by perverts who get "sexualized" by people running around in bondage gear.
You're making a connection here that doesn't exist. Yes hypersexualisation is a problem in our society. But it has much less to do with gay pride parades then actually the lack of education and correct information. It is a different kind problem. Which now will be even harder to fix thx to such "homosexual propaganda" laws that make it impossible for young people to get information from a safe and accurate place. Information that tells children what kind of sexual behaviour is actually "OK" and which one not. That things a friend, adult, even a relative is doing, can be wrong. The overwhelming majority of child molesting and raping actually happens with the family. This will HELP child molesters. I can promise you that. Because we know by now how many of the crimes happen. Most of the perpetrators are actually close relatives or contacts. They are often found in positions where they have access to children and where they appear 'normal' and adjusted where they want to earn their trust. It doesn't happen more often because of gay pride parades. Infact research tells us that one of the best ways to prevent child molesting is actually sexual education. Explaining what sexual practises are, what different sexual orientations exist and what practise is alright at which age and with whom. Two 14 year old teenagers kissing each other? Nothing to worry about, regardless what gender they have. But an adult forcing him/her self on a minor? That's a problem! And that's something we have to talk about and have conversations in the open. And not shunning homosexuality or linking gay parades to paedophiles. We know by now that this does actually a lot more harm to children and teenagers. Particularly those that have been actually molested by an adult because the victims feel violated and if sexuality becomes seen as something "perverted" it makes it even more difficult for a child to come forward. Now think about how it is for a child that was molested by a homosexual if homosexuality itself is seen as a "sinn" or "problem".
Gay Pride has been a thing at the very least since the 1980s and this "rhetoric" that it's a danger to our children has been repeated over and over again. But even after almost 40 years what no one of them can come up with, is an actually fact based argument that draws a clear connection between gay pride and the molesting of children.
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TorontoReign
Guest
No, I literally just saw some article two days ago of a transvestite pulling their fucking cock out in class and the teacher said nothing due to being afraid of offending them. You dismiss the hypersexualization point and say it's just the gay pride parades mainly but it's the media, the schools, the politics. Now there is concern of tranny bathrooms and sex change operations like this...
https://apnews.com/d6a3b0664e3c4394bc93cef36f06f84d
It's a confusing time to be a kid. This focus on who you are going to be fucking at the age of 8 is absurd and brought on by all this fixation on social justice. Bringing it back home to climate, it causes ideologues like Greta to speak out and get involved in things they know nothing about.
https://apnews.com/d6a3b0664e3c4394bc93cef36f06f84d
It's a confusing time to be a kid. This focus on who you are going to be fucking at the age of 8 is absurd and brought on by all this fixation on social justice. Bringing it back home to climate, it causes ideologues like Greta to speak out and get involved in things they know nothing about.
It's cool, puberty blockers are completely safe and have no irreversible effects.
All of sudden a serious issue I see.
I already said "hypersexualisation" is a serious problem which has a lot do with easy access to the media, particularly the internet at all times. Easy access to hardcore pornography and overexposure to sexual content in the media is a problem. But we've been talking about gay pride parades in Russia which are under constant attack! Not long ago in Serbia a gay protest has been attacked by people with stones and bottles. Later when the police came in they severely injured several people and even shot some homosexuals. As someone who actually grew up with Serbian parents and having many friends from the Balkan and eastern Europe I damn well know how fucking homophobic they are. Friends that outright tell you, you know homosexuals should be euthanised! Or the very real danger of being thrown out by your parents if you come out as gay. You say Greta due to her ideology is getting involved in things she knows nothing about. I love you dude, but I grew up with this shit. The laws Russia has put into action, is not for protecting children. You can now either believe what I am saying or not. The fact alone that it's called a law against "Homosexual Propaganda" should be a huge warning sign for everyone.
But you're making connections here based on one article to a topic that has noting to do with issues about gender identity. Russian authorities are using this talking point to discriminate homosexuals. And not to protect their youth.
As someone who actually has a sister that was several times molested in her child hood, by family members and once by a neighbour which she told me decades later, I find it interesting how it's suddenly all a talking point now with trans people while we know for decades that :
1. Approximately 20 percent of girls (1 in 5) and 8 percent of boys (1 in 12.5) will be sexually abused before their 18th birthday (Pereda et al, 2009).
2. 95 percent of sexually abused children will be abused by someone they know and trust (NAPCAN 2009).
3. Of those molesting a child under six, 50 percent were family members. Family members also accounted for 23 percent of those abusing children 12 to 17 years (Snyder, 2000).
4. The most vulnerable age for children to be exposed to sexual assault is between 3 and 8 years with the majority of onset happening between these ages (Browne & Lynch, 1994).
5. Males made up 90 percent of adult child sexual assault perpetrators, while 3.9 percent of perpetrators were female, with a further 6 percent classified as ’unknown gender’ (McCloskey & Raphael, 2005).
6. As many of 40 percent of children who are sexually abused are abused by older, or more powerful children. (Finkelhor, 2012) Note: with the easy access to pornography we are seeing more and more cases of child on child sexual abuse, and older children/siblings sexually abusing younger children. Twenty-three percent of all 10 to 17 year olds experience exposure to unwanted pornography (Jones L., et al 2012).
7. Eighty-four percent of sexual victimization of children under 12 occurs in a residence (Snyder, 2000).
8. In 98 percent of child abuse cases reported to officials, children’s statements were found to be true (NSW Child Protection Council, cited in Dympna House 1998).
9. 1 in 3 adults would not believe a child if they disclosed sexual abuse (Australian Childhood Foundation, 2010).
10. Seventy-three percent of child victims do not tell anyone about the abuse for at least 1 year. Forty-five percent do not tell anyone for 5 years. Some never disclose (Broman-Fulks et al, 2007).
11. Survivors of childhood sexual abuse are 10 to 13 times more likely to attempt suicide. (Plunkett A, O’Toole B, Swanston H, Oates RK, Shrimpton S, Parkinson P 2001).
12. Children living without either parent (foster children) are 10 times more likely to be sexually abused than children who live with both biological parents. Children who live with a single parent that has a live-in partner are at the highest risk: they are 20 times more likely to be victims of sexual abuse than children living with both biological parents (Sedlack et al, 2010).
This is a serious issue and people are making all kinds of conection and just like 30-40 years ago when it was about homosexuality in general, they bring paedophiles into it again. And just like back then I don't think most of them are really concerend about child safety here. Yes there are talking points and issues we have to adress. But not like this.
It's always a confusing time for a kid.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with Russias anti gay laws.
The Russian government's stated purpose for the law is to protect children from being exposed to homosexuality—content presenting homosexuality as being a norm in society—under the argument that it contradicts traditional family values. The statute amended the country's child protection law and the Code of the Russian Federation on Administrative Offenses, to make the distribution of "propaganda of non-traditional sexual relationships" among minors, an offense punishable by fines. This definition includes materials that "raises interest in" such relationships; cause minors to "form non-traditional sexual predispositions"; or "[present] distorted ideas about the equal social value of traditional and non-traditional sexual relationships." Businesses and organizations can also be forced to temporarily cease operations if convicted under the law, and foreigners may be arrested and detained for up to 15 days then deported, or fined up to 5,000 rubles and deported.
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TheGM
The voice of reason
Crini is know for moving goal posts but this is one is the best ever.
classic.
What it started with was something from Russia about Greata Tunberg. Then I 'jokingly' dismissed it because ... well, it's fucking Russia. A nation with an autocratic regime that's crushing protests, rigging their elections, discriminating gays, engaging in political manipulation and doing all other kinds of shady shit - for decades. And then we suddenly talk about gender politics in the US and what some fucked up person did in front of class because, why exactly? ... As justification for discrimination of homosexuals in Russia? And Toront even mentions "It should be against the law to go around like this:" like as there would be some kind of connection here:
I mean is this what some of you want? I mean I clearly don't know. It's just what I had to deal with for most of my life, right? So com on, you guys tell me. You seem to be like the experts here on this kind of matter and everyone else must be ideologically driven and has no clue.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...wo-dead-and-dozens-held-in-lgbt-purge-reports
Two people have been killed and nearly 40 detained in a new crackdown on LGBT people in Russia’s Chechnya region, activists have said. The deaths were reportedly caused by the use of torture by police.
The reports on Monday echo those from 2017, when hundreds of gay men were rounded up by police in Chechnya and subjected to beatings and electric shocks in secret prisons, provoking international condemnation and sanctions.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/64885...ted-and-what-laws-has-vladimir-putin-enacted/
Russia's World Cup volunteers have warned they will hunt down gay England fans and report them to police if they see them kissing in public
And this is the reality for many homosexuals in Russia. I am NOT(!) talking about Europe here. I am NOT(!) talking about the US here.
What's next, do we also find justification for Uganda when they had the death penalty for homosexuals or transsexuals and link this to Identity politics in the US and Europe? What the fuck man.
I don't know what to say at this point. It feels like we're talking about completely different positions here and any kind of middle ground is completely out of the window. Maybe I am the crazy one here. I don't know. I never mentioned any issues regarding gender identity or what some moronic parents are doing to their children with hormone therapy - why don't you blame the parents are they not at fault here? Why is it the fault of homosexuals in Russia protesting for gay rights? That's my point here. How is this connected? Why even bring it up?
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MutantScalper
Dogmeat
Crikey! Roasted 'roo, anyone?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-50387094
His name is "Joey".
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/australia-declares-state-emergency-catastrophic-20863291
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-50387094
His name is "Joey".
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/australia-declares-state-emergency-catastrophic-20863291
You don't like grilled Joeys?
There is a lot more to unpack here that doesn't have anything to do with gay pride, mostly around our puritanical views of the human body. We are taught that a woman's breasts are to be hidden and that they are a private/secret/special holy area. You should be ashamed that they're visible and be modest with your female body because it is regarded more or less as an object of sexual desire and not the body of an individual who has autonomy over it. There was a time here where even showing your knees was seen as scandalous and an overt display of your sexuality forced onto the eyes of men and women alike. I can remember church pastors telling girls to cover themselves so that they wouldn't cause boys/men to "stumble" because of our inherent and uncontrollable sexual urges. It was pretty much ingrained in us then men had no control over themselves and it was the duty of women to make sure they wouldn't arouse us. In some places things are still like this.
In other places breasts are not covered. They are no different then the breasts of a man. There is no sexual hang up with whether you see or don't see someone's breasts because they have never been sexualized and because they've never been covered. They are the natural part and function of a woman's body.
We've had a lot of debate here in North America about the practice of breastfeeding in public. There are even a few cities where it is legal to have your breasts uncovered. The line is different in various places. On social media for instance you can show all of the breast except the nipples. Actually, if you replace the nipples with male nipples these platforms will not remove the images. Where we draw the line and the reasons why are complicated and there can only be dissonance as a more progressive culture overlaps with an existing culture.
RE: the men in codpieces... what is the difference between this and a bathing suit? And how would children know that any of these things are sexual?
This is what's called a slippery slope and whether that anecdote is true or not (I couldn't find a news article for this - it sounds like fake news) that sounds like a problem with the teacher and their decision making ability. Also this reminds me of this comic (the future liberals want):
It's new territory, we won't know the affects, positive or negative, for a long time and a lot of this is based on existing experience and research of older transgender people. The focus is however not on "who you are going to be fucking" but "who you are as a person". You seem to view everything through a lense of having sex.
Wow, I haven't heard the gay people = pedophiles argument in probably 10+ years. Are you a time traveler? There is no correlation for this. You are talking about "grooming" and this is not the "gateway drug" to something that already exists. You say "normalization" but there's also "education". Hiding everything about sex behind a wall of secrecy and shame has not done society any favours. Children learning about the human body also learn about bodily autonomy and consent. This isn't the pedophile loophole. Pedophiles are going to pedophile no matter what. The best thing we can do is educate and empower children so they can actually understand these things.
You are really hung up on the children fucking thing. Kids do not understand or have any interest in sex. They do understand that they have a penis or a vagina. It shouldn't be a mystery organ that nobody ever talks to them about. We have never been better off having educational stigma around the human body. You'd think from your description these classes are just videos from Pornhub.
Yes, as soon as we start educating people about sex, everyone will be transgender and have their dicks/balls/vaginas out. You really nailed it.
Hoplite
Worth 1/5th of 100 grams of tea
Came here for angry Swede, got angry internet debate about homosexuality instead. That's some topic parkour right there.
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TorontoReign
Guest
I found a way to stay on topic.
MutantScalper
Dogmeat
So called climate sceptics are evil people who'd rather watch koalas like Lewis burn.
It's always incredible how we see more and more animals disappear due to habitat loss and destruction yet some people act like it's not happening or not even a problem.
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TorontoReign
Guest
That must be because people live in houses not in the trees and oceans.
I am not sure what that's supposed to mean.
Collapsing eco systems anyone? Stabile environments? If biodiversity drops it will have very long lasting and severe effects on our species as well.