Climate Change is not real!

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Crni Vuk, Jul 26, 2019.

  1. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Absolutely agree with that.

    Then look at fucking Tschernobyl or Fukushima or some of the other thousands of places where some ecological disaster happend which forced humans to abandon it. Or the 10 most polluted places on earth or what ever. Have you seen the cancer rates and deformities among children on the Caspian sea due to oil drilling? And what does it matter if some habitat was created "accidentally" due to flooding? It was destroyed for the most part by decades of industrial and agricultural exploitation.
     
  2. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    Wut?
    The point is the climate changed. First it was a desert, then it was lake, now it is a poison smelly lake. Shit happens and you writing actual treatises on a internet forum isn't going to change that fact no matter how many spectrum points you put into them.
     
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  3. GonZo_626

    GonZo_626 Well Shit!

    Jul 29, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  4. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    @GonZo_626 I am curious from where he's getting that information from.

    Finally, someone proclaimed an obvious truth that few dare to utter publicly. According to Moody’s Analytics, Canada will benefit from climate change. Although it will shock many, this forecast should surprise no one. Canada is a very large, cold country, with 90 per cent of its population huddled within 100 miles of its southern border and an enormous agricultural potential if the land warms up. There will also be new opportunities for oil, gas and mineral development in the Arctic. And let’s not ignore the greater personal comfort of living in a more hospitable climate.

    Oh yes! Canada is very large and cold country. But it is not a cold country all the time. Very hot summers and extreme weather patters like heavy rains and floods will still take place.

    A quick google search reveals gives us a different insight in their report :

    Moody’s Analytics estimates climate change impacts will cost the global economy up to $69 trillion by the end of the century, The Washington Post reported Wednesday.

    The consulting firm predicts rising temperatures and extreme weather events will disrupt productivity and damage infrastructure, hitting the economies of Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa the hardest.

    https://thehill.com/policy/energy-e...cts-climate-change-costs-up-to-69-trillion-by

    Strange. Other nations will be hit by extreme weather patters and their infrastructure will suffer but Canadas not?

    I can not find information specifically about Canada here. But it would be foolish to believe that Canada would be unaffected in a globalized world economy where the slightest of Trumps fart is causing the markets to jump. Besides Joe Oliver is also known for other articles like Joe Oliver: We should prepare for extreme weather, but tying it to climate change is a mistake where he posts completely wrong opinions, I quote "(...)But the causes of extreme weather and whether it’s bound to become more common are still being debated by scientists". He denies high school knowledge that every physics student is learning and which has been falsified countless of times by now. I have a very hard time to really trust someone who's not even believing in Green House gases to be the cause of climate change. The science is settled here. We do know that more extreme weather patterns happen also due to climate change and the rising in temperature. More heat means more energy which results in larger storms. The number of Co2 particles and other green houses gases in our atmosphere can be also directly measured. This is hard science we're talking about here.

    However there are estimations that tell us that Canadas economy will be effected.

    Even Canada will be looking at severe changes in their ecosystems, including their agriculture and living conditions :

    FOREST TO PRAIRIE
    Milder winters allow mountain pine beetles to survive and infect forests in Alberta and Saskatchewan, killing trees and turning parched and overheated forests into tinder boxes.

    Wildfire seasons already begin weeks before they used to. In the Northwest Territories, where temperatures are climbing faster than almost anywhere on earth, the 2014 fire season set a record of 3.4 million hectares of scorched forest.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/2546601/...-change-extremes-at-current-emissions-levels/

    At this point there can be absolutely no doubts that Canada and its economy will be affected by the global change in temperature. This will mean changes to larger urban areas as it will mean changes to more remote areas across the whole country. Changes in the climate even by a few degrees can come with very large changes in certain insect populations. Areas with forests and plants which had not seen certain species might be overrun now by beetles which have not been present before. The effects can end up in dying forests and crop failures. So even areas which might become more hospitable will still be hit by the changes. And we have yet not talked about possible changes in soil and ground water due to melting glaciers, changes in rain patters and so on and so forth. The idea that Canada would not be affected severely is ludicrous. It's like driving at full speed with a car that's missing brakes and claiming everything will be fine because you have better airbags than the rest.

    Looking at their chart I find it interesting how almost every part of the planet is shown as a "looser" to climate change except for Europe and North America. How suspiciously convenient. And this is not making anyone raising their eyebrows? I guess Canada and Europe are not living on the same planet as the rest of the world. Look at the destabilisation of Syrah and how it effected Europe. Now imagine this on a global scale and tell me again it has no real effect on us. They claim that Russia, China and India will be hit by climate change yet at the same time they say tourism is going to increase in North America and Europe? Is this some kind of joke? Did they mistake climate refugees for tourists maybe? Take a very close look at this in particular :

    The Moody's report, by its own admission, didn't factor in the impact of natural disasters, such as Hurricane Florence that hit the North Carolina coast and produced this scene last summer. (Jonathan Drake/Reuters)

    And this is the Report John Oliver decided to spend all his trust in? alright then. Well I guess if you juggle around numbers like that you could make every nations GDP grow if the global temperature would climb by 10°! Just leave important parts like growing storms and damages by natural disasters - the main issue with climate change - out of the equation! I wonder why a company that's connected to Moody’s Risk Management Service (MRMS) leaves such vital information out. But it reminds me to the Russians and what they did after Tschernobyl when the numbers of radiated victims was growing. They simply changed the definition at which point radiation poisoning is considered unhealthy. And suddenly you had almost no more victims that could demand any compensation. Problem solved I guess!

    Let us assume for some reason that's not really explained central Europa and Canada would be largely unaffected by the change in temperature but how are we supposed to shield our self from the rest of the world effectively? While we might be capable of building walls to keep all those people storming our borders World War Z style we still rely on a global economy and the global market. If China, India, Africa, the Middle East, Russia and South America become unstable maybe even inhospitable in some cases as moodys analysis claims it will have very severe effects on us as well. Including Canada. You know even the Canadian economy does trade with those nations.

    But even if we accept all of this report as "true" it actually begs the question if we really should keep up with a lifestyle that has the potential to harm maybe even kill millions if not billions of people.

    But what's really interesting is the other information the article is giving us like this :

    By Moody's own admission, the report doesn't calculate a number of climate change impacts that are likely to affect the economy, including the increased likelihood of expensive natural disasters. The costs of those storms are already enormous, and growing quickly.

    (...)

    Nor does Moody's tabulate the economic impact of geopolitical risk from things like climate refugees.
    "Slower economic growth in the most affected countries could prompt residents of those countries to relocate," Moody's said. "If the degree of emigration is large enough, it could put strain on certain countries that are receiving the immigrants," Moody's said, noting how immigration has already become a thorny political issue in the U.S.

    Splendid! They leave some of the most vital parts out of their calculations. How is this supposed to be even remotely accurate if they are on one hand missing a whole lot of data and also leaving out developments like the growing number of storms and natural disasters due to climate change? Storms and natural disasters which will also have severe effects on agriculture by the way.

    I am sorry Gonzo but this really doesn't build up a lot of reassurance that Canada will have a good time in the future.

    Gonzo also do me a favour. The next time you read such an Article like from John Oliver treat it like as he gave you a statistic where he claimed guns cause an increase in violence. ;). Apply this (excellent) critical thinking of yours in the same way here as you do in gun debates!

    Now I remember why I put you on my ignore list again ...

    You probably don't read what I write you probably just shovel words around in your mind till they mean something to you.

    Remember why this place became a poisonous smelly lake and then you might make the connection between this lake and climate change. A small hint it has something to do with humans and how they treat eco systems like how the Rainforest was once a forest and is now becoming an ash desert. Shit happens I guess ...

    Anyway I am not going to discuss this matter any further with you from now on.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  5. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Before you count your chickens about the good things your country would get from climate change... remember who your neightbours on the south are.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
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  6. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    Crni, i am honestly curious what your argument is. My position is as follows: the world will keep heating, ice will melt, countries and populations will suffer, and the process has so far been deliberate by corporate actors, who have no intention in stopping what *they* consider beneficial. What part do you disagree with??? You keep repeating «countries will be affected» when that should be more than obvious. I say, they will be affected indeed, and corporates will take advantage. I genuinely cant spot the contradiction you keep responding to :s
     
  7. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I am not trying to really make any argument here. Just fucking around to be honest.

    Not a contradiction. I just don't see how anyone could really protect him self or shield them self from the consequences we're going to face here. Not when you consider how severe it will most likely be. What are you supposed to do with wealth and money when things become really dire with droughts, flooding and natural disasters. You can't throw money at a hurricane destroying your town or intimidating a drought or heat wave.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
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  8. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    Dude, youre right, capitalist tycoons are a sickness. Thats usually my point. These are people who can buy 700 private jets, for what??? Theres no reasoning w them, theres no convincing or explaining. Were up against a force that rules all politics, all weaponry, all demography, all power projection.

    There is only revolution, that or despair for all. I admire your strenght of hope, i really do. I dont have it.
     
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  9. The Dopamine Cleric

    The Dopamine Cleric Dollhouse Ego Project For The Enlightened Orderite

    Nov 3, 2007
  10. BigGuyCIA

    BigGuyCIA Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Oct 26, 2016
    Your April O'Neil profile pic made me hard.

    Bring it back.
     
  11. TorontRayne

    TorontRayne Super Eye Patch Man Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    I just can't please everyone. This person wants Ghost Rider. This person wants Marilyn. This person wants Pennywise. Now April. Surely there is some sort of composite creature I can devise to please them all. Oh sorry. Wrong circlejerk.
     
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  12. Risewild

    Risewild Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    Make an animated .gif that goes through all of them. :wiggle:
     
  13. Atomkilla

    Atomkilla Hazel Hegemon oTO Orderite

    Dec 26, 2010

    TBH, my personal favorite was that skull pilot from Pearl Jam's video.
     
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  14. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008

    that's a great video. fits this topic like a glove.
     
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  15. TorontRayne

    TorontRayne Super Eye Patch Man Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    I'm not patient enough for that. I almost forgot about Pearl Jam Skull. All Crni has are tanks and some tranny alien queen.

    Climate Change = 0
    Climate Always Changes = 1
     
  16. Atomkilla

    Atomkilla Hazel Hegemon oTO Orderite

    Dec 26, 2010
    Climate. Climate always changes.
     
  17. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    You also forgot who made the pearl jam gif work for you.

    That's how you repay me brother.
     
  18. TorontRayne

    TorontRayne Super Eye Patch Man Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    Truth waits for no man old friend. Once you back down from telling the truth you are lying. A wise man living on a mountain due to his ancestors trying to escape a flood told me that.
     
  19. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
     
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  20. GonZo_626

    GonZo_626 Well Shit!

    Jul 29, 2016
    Alright I just cant refute every point its just to long. Some have them are questionable. Especially the pine beetle and forest fires. Much of that is caused over a longer term that also involves trying to outright prevent forest fires from happening. Jasper national park is currently a giant powder keg waiting to burn (most don't hear things like this and it is never reported in the news, but I do some work in emergency management and get to see some of the preps happening behind the seams) as its a national park there has been no logging allowed (until recently to hopefully help with the pine beetles, and forest fires) and no major fires in awhile. While the climate is a factor it is not the only one in that and our forest management practices have been to stop the natural way instead of letting it proceed in a controlled way.


    And yes I do realize that the reports while not glazing over certain things, left out things that are harder to predict accurately (also in civil engineering trust me the flooding here is not so much un-natural or getting worse but more due to insufficient infrastructure to begin with and the removal by agriculture of large amounts of wet lands). Our current models are based a lot on when times were dryer and we are seeing levels of rainfall more akin to 30 years ago while a lot of the models only go 20 years back now. Also building of developments in flood plains did not help.

    What I have been telling you is that there are different ways than what you consider in your thinking. Lets go with wind power, these generators require the use of large amounts of rare-earth metals. Now we all know how horrible the process of mining and extracting these minerals is (makes the Canadian oil Sands look like a green wonderful playground in comparison) but to equip the planet with the amount of turbines we would need would eat up to 90% of the currently available rare-earth metals. So do you think everyone is about to give up all the electric cars, computers, smart phones and electronics for wind power, or should we build a bunch more of these horrible mines?

    I am not and have never said we should not do anything, I have said that we should do things smartly, I also think that without effective carbon capture technology we will never get anywhere anyway. At this point we have already moved past the point of prevention and have moved into needing to reduce the carbon period. all the 10 year plans aint going to do shit without it. We need to have better infrastructure, and the best thing of all more vegetation especially in large cities. Large cities are in my opinion the 2nd worst thing besides bunker fuel in cruise/container ships.

    Shit if we just made those ships use better fuel or quit trying to build everything in some cheap ass place we could hit the targets almost better than every other strategy.
     
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