Creation Kit and Bethesda.net mods are out

Even with the creation kit only so much can be done to make this game not shit. We would need the source code because this game needs an overhaul in very basic design. The leveling system needs to be scrapped, and rework the combat system to make it line up with D&D rules.

Then not to mention the story is insulting, the map is a theme park, and there is only a handful of enemy types. What little lore they added is atrocious and actually destroys established lore even more so.

The only thing really salvageable is the engine and some of the assets. If it were up to me I would just make a whole other Fallout game using Unreal Engine 4 or other modern game engines.
 
Polynoid said:
The one that can prove that Fallouts were flawless at release should thrown the first stone.
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If a lot of the bugs and issues present in FO4 weren't more of the same shit that have been plaguing BGS games forever, followed by Godd Howard sycophants hand waving them away as being "typical Bethesda, hahaha," patching the game after release wouldn't be that much of an issue.
 
Polynoid said:
The one that can prove that Fallouts were flawless at release should thrown the first stone.
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The errors of past Fallouts doesn't make Fallout 4 run any smother though. See, that's one of the points I wanted to make. We are talking about Bethesda here, one of the really big onees in the AAA buisness, with years of experience, a lot of resources and using the same engine for two decades. Do you really think they should do the same mistakes over and over again by now? By the way, this is a general problem. A lot of games these days get released in a state ... that's simply unacceptable, and it would have been even 15 years ago unacceptable. See Aliens Colonial Marines, Arkham Knight or well ... any Bethesda game at release.

Polynoid said:
Well, okay, if you see so...?
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It makes it easier for us at some point. At least for me. I mean we are a community dedicated for the most part, to the old Fallout games. Really such a surprise that we defend them? This is a fan forum after all. Don't act like this is somehow outlandish or totally unheard off on the internet.

Polynoid said:
Excuse me, i had this impression at reading the forums, before i joined. Also, hatred is often a sign of bias.
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No clue if it is. I thought, beeing unreasonable is a sign of bias. Like I said. We have a reason for our criticism.
For example, the way how dialog and writing was always a strong point of Fallout, where it now barely plays a role in Fallout 4. Take the number of choices and consequences. How many of those are in F4? A handfull. At most. Skill checks or dialog options which matter have been even totally cut out.
As someone on the Codex said, Bethesda is making games that look nice, but do they make games that also play nice? A lot of their games have only a quality on the surface.

Polynoid said:
Maybe because of this.
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Maybe, maybe not. This is NMA. And I don't give a shit.

Polynoid said:
Almost took it personally, until i realised i am being aware that the games are not perfect. Neither are the decisions of Beth.
Still, we as gamers take our pleasure from positives of our pastime, isn't it? Not from negatives - or are we? I can't recall a orgasm i got while raging at game freezing at the sound of vertibird. I recall enjoying myself building walls and robots.
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Well, except that I never said, Fallout 4 can't be enjoyed. Like by you, or anyone else.
Seeing flaws =/= nothing positive.
The problem is, that if you have a somewhat realistic perception, you have to realize that Fallout 4 is simply not offering you a stelar RPG experience. That doesn't mean that you can't enjoy the game. I love mindless shooters. It's just not what I want from a Fallout game.

Polynoid said:
Thanks for not pulling pitchforks and torches on me.
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No reason for that so far.
 
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I think we just need to come to the conclusion that FO4 is shovel ware and no amount of modding will fix it.

We should also brace ourselves for what the inevitable crap storm that is paid mods popping up will be. Barricade NMA, the quiet before the storm is here.
 
I'll be interested to see how much more of a walking simulator TES6 ends up being, based on what they did with Fallout 4. Skyrim was already pretty shallow, I fully expect the next one to strip out even more.
 
At this point, I would not be surprised if TES6 won't be much more than a slightly prettier version of the Doom 4 Map-Creation-Tool that you get with the game. Why even pretend at this point that they deliver a real role playing game? Let people build their own ... adventure!
 
Practicat said:
It's hard to say whether there's a sinister intention in Bethesda.net hosting the unofficial patch. It has improved players' experiences, after all, as far as making the game less buggy goes. If Beth had decided to incorporate the unofficial patch's fixes into their own patch, then the benefit of the mod authors' work would have been diminished, and there may have been accusations of Beth taking modders' work and making it theirs, unless they were compensated (which is another issue).

The work had been done. Is it really unexpected that Beth would chose to host it ASAP, even if the work is not theirs, and thus improve players' experience sooner rather than later?
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One little note, the ToS/EULA say that any mod made using Bethesda's CKs/GECKs for their games ARE Bethesda's property.
http://www.gamezone.com/news/bethesda-owns-the-rights-to-your-skyrim-creation-kit-mods
 
It's also one of those things that's not really enforceable in any meaningful way, it's just Bethesda covering their bases, same as any other EULA. That's the sort of thing no one, not even the companies involved, wants going to court because it could set really bad precedents.
 
Hmn.. That's means that even ''mods'' from ''Loverslab'' are Bethesda property?! Bethesda you did this on purpose don't you, you nasty little s*hit ;-P Lol
 
a721402 said:
That's something very bad, very very bad.
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Uh, but it is pretty much a standard in todays gaming. It has pretty much always been like that. Like I said, when you mod a game, you're using the assets and work of others after all. Obviously, as long you're not making any profit, this isn't really much of a problem.
 
Now Bethesda just needs to come out and say they made the mods because it's their assets to piss modders off and so I have a reason to get some popcorn and have a good laugh.
 
Kind of offtopic but I just saw the building mechanic in Rust and man, it really does feel like Bethesda just flat out ripped it off.
 
I hate paid mods. We can't stop it anyway, so is it legal if JSawer sell his own mod? I just can't stand the other people get paid but not them.
 
Risewild said:
One little note, the ToS/EULA say that any mod made using Bethesda's CKs/GECKs for their games ARE Bethesda's property.
http://www.gamezone.com/news/bethesda-owns-the-rights-to-your-skyrim-creation-kit-mods
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I'm sure at some point in this thread I outlined how screwed modders are in the IP realm of law. But yeah, they "own" your created property when you mod it into their game. How else do you think they could get away with that crap DLC they just released with robots. (The mod the ripped off of was the Robco mod from FNV I think.)

At least they could go the Mojang route and give the modder some credit, and money when they take their idea for use in the game.

But to break this down for everyone else who is unfamiliar with IP and Copyright law. If you mod for a game that has a legally established IP and copyright everything you make that falls under the scope of inclusion is automatically considered the original IP and copyright holders property even if they were not affiliated with the generation of that new IP. Example: Disney, Disney only produced maybe 10% of the IP they currently own. That bought about 60% of the rest while the remainder is work that was done outside of their control that they then later took to court and absorbed.

And lets not go down the EA route because we will never see the bottom of that abyss. But I hope my point is understood that modders have no rights under the current IP and copyright law. Modders who want their IP protected find games that have expired IP and copyright and tinker with those. But even then they have to contend with IP trolls (Yes that is the actual term) who purchase IP to later only use that IP to bully those who try to use what should be a dead IP/copyright.

Paid mods also prevent any form of legal representation for modders as they force said modders to conform to the original IP/copyright holders terms of service as well are subject to any stipulations outlined in any form of contract that would be drawn up by the original holder. (Pretty much they get excluded from legal representation and rights for or under the IP/copyright because they are forced to mod under conditions superimposed on them by the IP holder).

Plus if you use a "program" the IP/copyright holder released to mod something without a licensing contract, even if that mod is not related to the IP in any way they can also say that the "new" IP is theirs as well.

While this is technically a grey area for IP/copyright law, it is still very clear what rights the individual modder has in these cases.

I reaffirm Paid mods = Slavery.
 
To be fair, doesn't Valve own all the rights to mods on the Steam Workshop? I think it's shit business practice, but I'm just saying that Bethesda isn't the only company to do crap like that.
 
Risewild said:
One little note, the ToS/EULA say that any mod made using Bethesda's CKs/GECKs for their games ARE Bethesda's property.
http://www.gamezone.com/news/bethesda-owns-the-rights-to-your-skyrim-creation-kit-mods
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Except that is not the case.
D. Game Mods

Content also includes Game Mods. The term “Game Mod” means downloadable, user-generated Content developed or created by You or a third party using an Editor Tool (as defined below). In certain cases, as determined by ZeniMax, Game Mods may be made available to other users of a Service or a Game and in such cases, such other users may download the Game Mods from ZeniMax or third parties and use such Game Mods in connection with playing a Game or receiving a Service from ZeniMax.

If You desire to develop or create one or more Game Mods, then You will be required to download from a ZeniMax website or otherwise gain access to via a ZeniMax website one or more software tools through which You may create or develop Game Mods (each such tool is an “Editor Tool”). To obtain a copy of or get access to any such Editor Tool, You will be required to agree to the terms of a separate EULA (the “Editor EULA”). If there is a conflict between the terms and conditions in any such Editor EULA and the terms and conditions in these Terms of Service, the terms in the Editor EULA will control over the conflicting terms in these Terms of Service but solely for purpose of the specific Editor Tool and not for any other purpose. Please review the terms in the Editor EULA carefully.

With respect to Game Mods made available for download from a ZeniMax website or made available from a ZeniMax server, ZeniMax may, at any time and in its sole discretion, elect to remove such Game Mods from the ZeniMax website(s) or server(s) without notice to You.

Each Game Mod is owned by the developer of the Game Mod, subject to the licenses granted by the developer to ZeniMax as set forth in the Editor EULA.

ZeniMax may, but is not required under this Agreement to, validate, test, evaluate or pre-screen Game Mods.

ZeniMax does not endorse, sponsor, guaranty or approve any Game Mods, including without limitation Game Mods available for download from a ZeniMax website.

Your experience with any particular Game Mod may vary from other users’ experiences.

IF YOU ELECT TO INSTALL, DOWNLOAD OR USE ANY GAME MODS, YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK.

EXCEPT AS PROHIBITED BY APPLICABLE LAW AND SUBJECT TO THE STATUTORY OBLIGATIONS (AS DEFINED IN SECTION 1), ZeniMax reserves the right (but has no obligation except as required by law) to OFFER, make available, REVIEW, remove, block, edit, move or disable GAME MODs for any reason, with or without notice, and HAS no liability of any kind WITH RESPECT TO GAME MODs, including WITHOUT LIMITATION when ZeniMax determines that a GAME MOD violates THESE TERMS OF SERVICE, the EDITOR EULA. The decision to remove a GAME MOD at any time is in ZeniMax's sole and final discretion.

To the maximum extent permitted by law, ZeniMax does not assume any responsibility or liability for GAME MODs or for the removal of any GAME MODs FOR any failure to or delay in removing, any GAME MOD.

To sum it up, If it is their tools used they can post it, advertise it, share it and remove it at whim, but it remains in the authors ownership. That way they can avoid issues with console. All responsibility goes back to the modder. Unfortunately for Bethesda, no one told them that just because you have a TOS doesn't make it legal and binding. If someones game, console or life gets fucked up and Bethesda could have done something to stop it, no TOS can protect them.
 
Each Game Mod is owned by the developer of the Game Mod, subject to the licenses granted by the developer to ZeniMax as set forth in the Editor EULA.
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Basically if I understand it right, that means that the mod developer owns the mod unless the CK's EULA says otherwise, which it does, since it says anything made in it is property of Bethesda. :confused:

EDIT: I think if there is any problem with a mod and people complain, the author will be the one blamed, by what I understand it means the mod is owned by the author unless Bethesda specifically says it is not... I think it is a way of Bethesda to not take any responsibility for errors and problems, but also to safeguard themselves and "appropriate" any mod when it is convenient for them for whatever reason.
 
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