Crispy Gamer and VideoGamer play Fallout 3

[shorrtybearr]

The radio thing is a very minor issue in the big list of reasons why F3 looks like junk.

1. V.A.T.S. - Makes perfect sense in a turn-based game, but has no place in a shooter. What happened to immershun? There can't be a bigger immershun-breaker than this one.

2. Level design. Copy and paste.

3. Monster and loot scaling. Maybe it can be done better this time. Another potential immershun-breaker.

4. Dialogue or lack thereof (unknown since they haven't shown much of anything).

5. Graphics. Beth's main selling point. It just doesn't look good, especially from a design standpoint, very generic and flat.

6. Over-the-top silliness with weapons and other things.

Also:

7. What looks to be totally shit AI.

1. V.A.T.S. - I dont think the targeting system will have much effect on the "immershun" of the game, if it was a problem then its purely bad design. If you hate it that much then simply dont use it.

2. Level design. Copy and paste. - I didnt know i was talking to someone whos played through the entire game, i realise now my mistake! we shall all take your word as gospel.

3. Monster and loot scaling. - Read above. Something that is potentially a bad thing doesnt as the statement suggests make it a bad thing.

4. Dialogue or lack thereof - Thrid time in a row, how can it be a negative if you know nothing of it.

5. Graphics. - Fair enough, thats your opinion.

6. Over-the-top silliness with weapons and other things. - Again fair enough, your opinion. I personally dont like the nuke thing.

7. What looks to be totally shit AI. - Agreed.


As for the radio stations and Dj's i see no problem, radio is a way of communication in barren enviroments, I mean i'd have more of a problem with TV channels rather than Radio.

I mean if a radio is playing music thats fine, why not have a little uplifting music when all the people are starving? The did it during the war.

 

[alec]

7. What looks to be totally shit AI. - Agreed.

That's funny. You accuse him of having an opinion about certain aspects of the game while he hasn't played the game yet, but you do agree on the "totally shitty AI". And there's no real proof of that "totally shitty AI" either. Plus: it's an aspect of the game they can still tweak, contrary to the overall look of the game.

As for the radio stations and Dj's i see no problem, radio is a way of communication in barren enviroments, I mean i'd have more of a problem with TV channels rather than Radio.

I mean if a radio is playing music thats fine, why not have a little uplifting music when all the people are starving? The did it during the war.

You're running around in a post-apoc Washington D.C., fighting all sorts of mutated critters and raiders and robots, and whilst doing so, you can pick up various radiostations. Not one, but various stations. You'd think that life in the wasteland would be a harsh thing, no? Yet, instead of fending off fire ants and giant wasps and behemoth supermutants, some people still find the time and the place to be D.J.? Come on. Try to imagine how utterly ridiculous that sounds.

 

[aenemic]

7. What looks to be totally shit AI. - Agreed.

That's funny. You accuse him of having an opinion about certain aspects of the game while he hasn't played the game yet, but you do agree on the "totally shitty AI". And there's no real proof of that "totally shitty AI" either. Plus: it's an aspect of the game they can still tweak, contrary to the overall look of the game.

it says "what looks to be...", meaning they're under the impression that it might be totally shit. it's not the same as saying it's definitely so.

As for the radio stations and Dj's i see no problem, radio is a way of communication in barren enviroments, I mean i'd have more of a problem with TV channels rather than Radio.

I mean if a radio is playing music thats fine, why not have a little uplifting music when all the people are starving? The did it during the war.

You're running around in a post-apoc Washington D.C., fighting all sorts of mutated critters and raiders and robots, and whilst doing so, you can pick up various radiostations. Not one, but various stations. You'd think that life in the wasteland would be a harsh thing, no? Yet, instead of fending off fire ants and giant wasps and behemoth supermutants, some people still find the time and the place to be D.J.? Come on. Try to imagine how utterly ridiculous that sounds.

so what? want me to start pointing out every little thing that was utterly ridiculous about the post-apocalyptic world of the first two games?

I'm sure the radio is there mainly for two reasons. the first being for atmosphere - so you can listen to some nice 50's tunes while playing, giving off that great vibe the earlier Fallouts gave off with the intro music. second reason is quests and information. now, aren't those things something us Fallout fans should appreciate and not complain about?

 

[deanimate]

You're running around in a post-apoc Washington D.C., fighting all sorts of mutated critters and raiders and robots, and whilst doing so, you can pick up various radiostations. Not one, but various stations. You'd think that life in the wasteland would be a harsh thing, no? Yet, instead of fending off fire ants and giant wasps and behemoth supermutants, some people still find the time and the place to be D.J.? Come on. Try to imagine how utterly ridiculous that sounds.

that's exactly it! It is a harsh place and what better than some music to transport you away from that harshness. If you have a safe place then why on earth not? who even cares if someone can pick up your signal. its something other than the day to day grind of finding food and water etc to give your life a sense of normality in what is most certainly not a normal world. Obviously not everyone is going to be putting together their own brand of wasteland entertainment but think about it. You have those skills, you've collected enough junk and you're pretty sure you put it all together and get a signal out there to people wandering those desolate lands.
I am far more inclined towards the radio stations than no radio stations point of view. Personally think its a great idea.

How it exactly works i guess we won't know till the game is out but so far i do believe it could work well.

 

[Oh Snap!]

I'm sure the radio is there mainly for two reasons. the first being for atmosphere - so you can listen to some nice 50's tunes while playing, giving off that great vibe the earlier Fallouts gave off with the intro music. second reason is quests and information. now, aren't those things something us Fallout fans should appreciate and not complain about?

There are two issues here. 1) As alec pointed out, that there are radio broadcasts in the wasteland being used to play old 50's music in a location where humans are essentially still struggling to survive and 2) You may be able to play music on the radio while stealth, sneaking behind the enemy.

When we keep hearing that all the decisions made for Fallout 3 were made to "immerse" the player in the game, and yet we're presented with sloppy, inconsistent "features," how can you possibly defend it?

The solution would be to include the radio to pick up short wave frequencies where you could stumble on NPC communications (for quests, as you stated) while simply including an "external" music player where you can choose to play the game soundtrack, 50's music, or whatever else Bethesda deems fit to cram into it. If you're playing the radio, treat it as any other noise the PC makes while sneaking near enemies. That's immersive and consistent. But from a company that's managed to turn the gorgeous beauty queen that Fallout once was into the bloated, aged shadow of her former self, we can expect nothing less than complete, utter inconsistency and disappointment, all while Todd Howard conducts his televised interviews wearing a smug, shit-eating grin.

 

[Zeld]

You're running around in a post-apoc Washington D.C., fighting all sorts of mutated critters and raiders and robots, and whilst doing so, you can pick up various radiostations. Not one, but various stations. You'd think that life in the wasteland would be a harsh thing, no? Yet, instead of fending off fire ants and giant wasps and behemoth supermutants, some people still find the time and the place to be D.J.? Come on. Try to imagine how utterly ridiculous that sounds.

In history, there have been lots of examples of activity like this. Well, it's not comparable to post-apoc world, but anyway. For example, _back in the U.S.S.R_ and East Germany they had piracy radio stations, which played pop music of west and in the 60' there was lot of record smuggling. Or what about those countries that have tried to ban certain genres of music or music altogether? It hasn't never succeeded. My point is, as long there are people, there will be music.

And hey, at least Bethesda plays some damn great music on those stations.

 

[whirlingdervish]

on the topic of multiple radio stations:

I can understand certain technologically inclined groups like the enclave and the BOS having the technical understanding of how to run a transmitting station large enough for radio broadcasts.

I can even understand that such groups might find that practice fruitful if they were looking to communicate over vast distances, and that they would posess the technology to power this transmitter.


What I can't understand is where the "DJ's" we're hearing about learned all of the things they'd need to run/maintain/repair a radio transmitter of reasonable size, 200+ years after the war, and how to generate enough electricity to run such a thing.

On top of that I have doubts about anyone with the capability of generating that power in a post-apocalyptic wasteland using it for such a silly purpose as playing music that nobody will hear.

If you were just lonely and wanted some tunes wouldn't it be orders of magnitude easier to power a single record player?

If you were living in a world devoid of luxury and you managed to develop machinery capable of massive electricity generation would you waste all that effort and fuel on sending radio waves or would you use it for survival?
(refridgeration/lighting/electrical fences/etc..)

The biggest problem I see with the radio is the sheer implausibility of these stations that are not affiliated with a technological powerhouse in the wastes like the enclave or BOS.

They just don't fit the setting, or it's overpowering sense of solitary survival in a horrendous and dangerous wasteland devoid of usable supplies and opportunities to screw up and get away with it alive.

the wasteland isn't some happy go lucky place.

You fuck up in Fallout, and you die.

This leads me to my other point of misunderstanding:

If you were living in the wasteland, would you knowingly attract the kind of attention that a working power generation facility would bring?

anyone who was actually intent on survival who happened upon such a radio station and wasn't a total fool, would track you down, stomp a mudhole in your ass, and take your stuff.

 

[terebikun]

In a perfect world there would be no radio stations that actually played music. They'd be what you'd expect people would be using radios for after a nuclear war. People trying to find other people smart enough to use a radio. Mark Morgans eerie music would be in the background as you scanned the band for any messages.

200+ years after the nuclear war, people aren't going to start using the radio for other purposes, like maybe music? After all the people complaining about Fallout 3 looking like it wasn't taking place long enough after the war, this would just be another point of contention. But then, what isn't, amirite.

the gorgeous beauty queen that Fallout

Sorry, but Fallout was never a beauty queen. A shining example of personality winning out.

The biggest problem I see with the radio is the sheer implausibility of these stations that are not affiliated with a technological powerhouse in the wastes like the enclave or BOS.

They just don't fit the setting, or it's overpowering sense of solitary survival in a horrendous and dangerous wasteland devoid of usable supplies and opportunities to screw up and get away with it alive.

Pirate radio stations are pretty low-maintenance, and don't require a lot of power. Just because it's radio doesn't mean it has to be a huge super-station transmitting over the entire state. I also have to degree with Fallout having an "overwhelming" sense of solitary survival. Even in the beginning you're working towards the greater good of a Vault/town, then you can join factions, guard caravans, not to mention all the NPCs that can join you. Survival was a big part of the game, but to me it just didn't feel very solitary.

 

[Brother None]

200+ years after the nuclear war, people aren't going to start using the radio for other purposes, like maybe music? After all the people complaining about Fallout 3 looking like it wasn't taking place long enough after the war, this would just be another point of contention. But then, what isn't, amirite.

I dunno, you seem to have missed whirlingdervish's rather good points.

Let's put aside for a moment how inconsistently Fallout 3 handles time passed since the war - as you're right, it does approach this rather haphazardly - the problem with radio stations is the same as with New Reno. For something like that to function and people interested in upkeeping it there has to be either an accessible ease-of-use (which is unlikely as technology of any kind was never abundant in Fallout) or if the cost is high the first consideration is if the manpower and energy can't be spent better in another manner - this is a basic social-economic truism, and it certainly applies here.
As D.C. has been described to us a squalid, supermutant-oppressed dystopia, who - except the Enclave - could possibly have the superfluity of manpower and equipment to spend either on transmitting a radio station or upkeeping a functional radio for receiving?

This isn't Dr. Bloodmoney, where the radio's existence is incidental and a one-off deal, it's just an unlikely scenario.

If you want to argue it's one of those quirks that Fallout has that defy logic, then yes, I'd tend to agree with you, Fallout often defies logic to better express its setting and radio stations - if done well - might well be another good method of doing it. But just please, please stop trying to argue that it actually makes sense. It really, really doesn't.

 

[ookami]

200+ years after the nuclear war, people aren't going to start using the radio for other purposes, like maybe music?

After that nuclear war? Even in that amount of time? Quite likely not. I agree with the much more likely possibility of anyone trying that being tracked down and having their stuff taken to be used for more immediate purposes rather than providing background music for the wasteland which most people probably aren't going to hear anyway.

But then, what isn't, amirite.

Well, if Bethesda showed any actual signs (not just lip-service) of giving a shit about Fallout lore, setting and consistency, maybe there wouldn't be quite so much contention.

They rag on Fallout 2 as bad examples of this and that and all sorts of silliness and then do a repeat of the New Reno mistake. Good job, Bethesda. Way to learn.

 

[analord]

anyone who was actually intent on survival who happened upon such a radio station and wasn't a total fool, would track you down, stomp a mudhole in your ass, and take your stuff.

There are plenty of easy ways to circumvent that plot hole but I get the feeling Beth is going to ignore it altogether. I like the idea of a radio station but it doesn't really matter to me because my idea of a radio station contradicts with the way Bethesda do things.

I guess what I'm saying is I don't really trust Beth to do the right thing. If there is a way lazy way to go chances are Beth is taking it. I already presume that the radio voices are insipid and talk about mud crabs. Why do I say this? What evidence do I have to support this case?

Beth sound department = shit. Case closed.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

I think the first and most important thing to be examined is why a radio that can pick up different stations is even in the game. The devs have cited the GTA games multiple times as games they enjoy and draw inspiration from and from the moment I heard of radio stations in Fallout 3 I instantly thought of GTA. I may be wrong but it seems like their reason for including radio stations was that they enjoyed the feature in GTA, an extremely successful franchise, and decided to put it in their own game. I don't see a plausible design reason to include it other than that because it's, at best, a stretch for the setting and it adds nothing to atmosphere and presents the possibility of damaging it due to lack of control of what the player listens to in specific areas (think of listening to marching band music while exploring the glow).

 

[Xenophile]

I don't care if the radio stations are being transmitted by gnomes in my socks.. I am still glad they put them in. Yeah I am one of those people that loved the GTA radio stations.

So it's inplausable... many many things are in fallout.. giant ants.. the virus that turns people into mutants are exponentially more unlikely.. radio stations run out of a shack are one of the least unlikely things in fallout. Who knows maybe there is a GECK like kit for a radio station.. but quite frankly I really don't care. I'll enjoy it.

I'm beginning to wonder about some of you.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

So it's inplausable... many many things are in fallout..

don't make them use the v-word again.

 

[Kyuu]

@ Xeno: So, your argument is that you liked the radio stations in GTAIV and you don't give a shit about how they're implemented or how they might possibly fit or not fit in the setting of Fallout. An utterly useless argument, and you can't seriously expect people who actually care about Fallout to accept an I-don't-give-a-shit argument. In fact I fail to see how anyone with actively firing synapses could say such a thing.

Also, the "yeah there are giant insects and viruses that mutate people so you can't complain about anything" argument is useless and vapid. If you don't understand why, look up the V-word previously linked by Cimmerian.

 

[sonicblastoise]

and if you don't understand the definition...let's clarify once again

versimilitude is the quality of consistency, probability, and in a sense "immersion" into any imaginary setting. it's one thing to say "it's a fantasy, so anything goes" and another to say "it's a fantasy, but it still has rules"

basically, we're saying we like rules. fallout 1 had rules, it bent some, but it had rules. bethesda is making a game without any consideration of those rules, but they keep stressing the ideas that necessarily require them. they keep contradicting themselves. and if you can't see that, i don't really know what else to say except do some research. it's quite clear that they have a track record for doing so.

which is another reason we don't trust them

 

[Matt K]

What i want to know is who is listening to these radio stations besides you. I mean to me this is kind of nitpicking since there are larger problems but this is also a symptom of the problems BS is having both in creating a cohesive world and one true to Fallout. If there is no one else listening besides you then what have radio stations as opposed to music holodisks? Plus if everyone could pick up say the distress signal, you would think the BOS or someone would have followed up on it and taken control of the equipment.

 

[EnglishMuffin]

It doesn't make sense for the smaller towns to use power to send out tunes, but it does make sense if it was a community like vault city. They would have plenty of power to set up a radio station. The other thought would be a town at a power plant like gecko. If it were leaking radiation it could be inhabited by ghouls and if somehow it was running fine, inhabited by humans. So those are some plausible possibilities of towns running radio stations.

Even so, bethesda does seem hellbent on just stealing concepts that work from other genres and slamming them down fallout's throat. It will maximize profits. Since EA this is what most companies strive for. I kind of wish that valve or blizzard would have gotten interested. More so valve since having played portal, I know they have some very talented writers.

 

[Imperial Guard]

Who is going to pay those DJs?

 

[Xenophile]

I don't even know why I am bothering to reply to this inane thread... but if we want to talk about it "fitting into" the background of Fallout.. lets look at what we know..

Most of the radio stations that we know about (or that I have seen anyway) are from poweful factions (or possible powerful factions)

Enclave

Chinese

There are a few others that we know exist, not counting the quest specific distress signal crap.

So nobody is going to walk in an take the Enclaves radio and the chinese could be broadcast offshore for all we know.

Now that leaves the "independent" stations. So these very easily can be based in a major settlement like say Megaton. There is little additional risk by having a station in a settlement. Area raiders, I guarantee ALREADY know where the settlement is.

Power is not that much of an issue in the fallout universe (sure I know it's not "abundant", but it's not super scarce either). You have multiple instances of municiple reactors and generators, as well as fairly abundant power/fusion cells. A modest radio transmitter would not require that much power. We are talking Something to provide entertainment and news for the town and surrounding communities... you realize with a 1W transmitter you can get well over 1 mile in transmit range.. how many watts do you think you need to power a fusion rifle???

How advanced are the electronics you need.. well today you can get a 1W transmitter for $399. A mildly skillful electronics buff could build a more powerful transmitter rather easily... especially as there seem to be an abundance of science/eletronic books in the fallout future. These might also be AM transmitters which carry a greater range.

I don't think a micro transmitter in the 1W-50W range has much of a chance of bringing the world down on your head. In a medium sized community.. I bet all the people that are interested in getting what your community has.. would already know you were there unless you were not trading with the outside world.

So let's recap.. the "large" stations are from large powers with not much fear. Smaller stations could easily and without a signifigant risk or cost be run for the entertainment(and public safety) of the community for mid-large communities. The power and the technology are there.

So you can label it any word you want.. you're not going to hurt my feelings.. and talk all you want about working brain cells, you're still wrong.