Destructoid wonders why Bethesda hasn't announced Fallout 4 yet

And what's even worse is you cant even console command through the invisible walls because each zone is instanced. DC was horribly designed and it had the potential to be awesome. There is a mod that add interiors to more buildings which makes it a little more enjoyable to go through.

Hmm. I never found that appealing though. I mean I can have some love for Open-World-Games. Infact some of the best games I played have been Open-World-Games. But exploration for the sake of exploration? I mean there should be at least somewhat a reason to do it. Time spend on rooms that are nothing but filler content might be better spend on actually meaningfull content. I mean one of the games that did it really well in my opinion is Assasins Creed 1+2 (the only ones I played so far).
 
Yeah I hear you. Its obvious they wanted the DC portion to be smaller compared to the rest of the game and they probably didn't have enough time to go through and design too many interiors which I'm fine with. If I were to drive some complaints at Fallout 3 that wouldn't be a big one, that's more of a complaint I'd throw at GTA 4 or something. I still wish DC wasn't instanced so heavily.
 
Skyrim is so fun to explore I got bored thirty hours in, without actually learning anything interesting about the story, other than civil war, dragons, chosen one, kill, loot, etc... Fallout 3 had such great locations like that dumbass Dave who formed a little settlement based upon himself. Great shit. Every time I read a comment about New Vegas being too unforgiving for exploration, having no interesting locations, being inferior to Fallout 3, I want to pluck my eyeballs out.
 
The circlejerk is strong here.
Do you people want to talk about logical fallacies?
What about the fact that your opinion (yes opinion) that fallout 3 is a bad is just that , an opinion.
It its not a fact at all . "Water boils at 100 degrees " , thats a fact , what you have is an opinion.
I liked fallout 3 alot , I also played finished and loved fallout 1 .
Shocking right?
Learn to respect others opinions , your opinion is not fact.
 
The circlejerk is strong here.
Do you people want to talk about logical fallacies?
What about the fact that your opinion (yes opinion) that fallout 3 is a bad is just that , an opinion.
It its not a fact at all . "Water boils at 100 degrees " , thats a fact , what you have is an opinion.
I liked fallout 3 alot , I also played finished and loved fallout 1 .
Shocking right?
Learn to respect others opinions , your opinion is not fact.

That's nice.

Let me attempt to rephrase the general anti fallout 3 sentiment into something you can digest easier :

"People who liked Fallout 3 are the lowest common denominator."

Is that better for you?
 
The circlejerk is strong here.
Do you people want to talk about logical fallacies?
What about the fact that your opinion (yes opinion) that fallout 3 is a bad is just that , an opinion.
It its not a fact at all . "Water boils at 100 degrees " , thats a fact , what you have is an opinion.
I liked fallout 3 alot , I also played finished and loved fallout 1 .
Shocking right?
Learn to respect others opinions , your opinion is not fact.

Who exactly are you speaking to? Everyone is aware that people have opinions. Learn to type properly.
 
Their love for Fallout 3 is so strong they register on the forum just to tell us to fuck off. Now that's comedy.
 
The circlejerk is strong here.
Do you people want to talk about logical fallacies?
What about the fact that your opinion (yes opinion) that fallout 3 is a bad is just that , an opinion.
It its not a fact at all . "Water boils at 100 degrees " , thats a fact , what you have is an opinion.
I liked fallout 3 alot , I also played finished and loved fallout 1 .
Shocking right?
Learn to respect others opinions , your opinion is not fact.

That's nice.

Let me attempt to rephrase the general anti fallout 3 sentiment into something you can digest easier :

"People who liked Fallout 3 are the lowest common denominator."

Is that better for you?

So people who have different video game tastes than you are the lowest common denominator now?
That´s sad .
I also enjoyed fallout 1 , it was a very good game.
Now that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy fallout 3 and the atmosphere that it accomplished.
As for the people attacking my typing i was writing on a crappy laptop keyboard.
This is much better now.
Oh and learn to debate without the use of ad hominem maybe.
 
pretty rich from the person whose entire post was just calling us a circle jerk and saying "That's like your opinion, man", and also using the expression "Logical Fallacy" and failing to understand what that is..
 
I'm not debating you, I'm telling you that your opinion is wrong and you should feel bad about having it.

Welcome to the internet kid
 
pretty rich from the person whose entire post was just calling us a circle jerk and saying "That's like your opinion, man", and also using the expression "Logical Fallacy" and failing to understand what that is..

your position is pretty clearly a logical fallacy, a derivative of personal incredulity. You don't personally see how a person could could like Fallout 3, so that makes it objectively a bad game to you. Pretty clearly logically fallacious, not to mention something only a lowest common denominator person would do.
 
Okay, I guess its time an adult (okay, a 23 year old) stepped in to defend Fallout 3. On a side note, if you missed my other posts I'm young but have played (and replayed) torment, arcanum, 1, 2, 3, and NV so I'm hardly new to these sort of games.

Fallout 3 is designed around being able to drop in and play for a few hours without completely giving yourself to the game. Same with Skyrim and the elder scrolls series post Morrowind. It also has more content available for one play through. Same thing with Skyrim, where the civil war questline for the most part keeps a lot of the missions the same. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, its just a game design decision revolving around the drop in, drop out gamers that emerged from the rise of consoles. I compare this to the hardcore gamers for whom gaming was their main hobby. Fallout 1 and 2 take a long time to play for the content they provide and while they provide a lot of replayability, this assumes people are raring to drop another 60 hours back into a game to reach the parts they couldn't access before. As someone who runs a law office (which basically involves keeping 70 year old men from royally fucking up my filing systems), at times I'm not that thrilled to play games where parts of the content are locked out unless you go back and play the 20 or so hours of redundant content needed to get to the parts you missed. I'd like to be able to maximize my hours. This is why I appreciate how Skyrim treated leveling and how Fallout 3 (and thus NV) treated skills. Whereas in old school rpgs you needed to create a few characters before really being able to progress through the game, in the previously mentioned games you can get by with initial poor choices and make up for them as time goes on. My time needs to be rationed and "fuck you you created the wrong character" gets old faaast. Accessibility isn't a bad thing, especially if you are tying to get people hooked on a good series.

Secondly, the deathclaw junction and cazadore railroading is a bit annoying if you are looking to just drop in and fuck around. It forces you onto the main story, which isn't bad in NV because the main story is pretty awesome, but it can still be annoying in open world games where a lot of the appeal is the ability to do what you want when you want. As the writer mentions, randomly choosing a direction and just exploring can be a ton of fun. It gets dull if you spend an entire day doing it in a row, but the games are designed to be played in 2-3 hour chunks, where random dungeoneering retains its fun.

Thirdly, and this is going to get some flak, Obisidian aren't that great of game designers. They tell awesome stories because they are basically turning PnP games into computer games. However, there are a LOT of rough edges. The best example of this is to contrast fast traveling into Megaton vs New Vegas strip and Camp McCarron. In Megaton, you poof right close to your house, because Bethesda gets why you are most likely traveling back to Megaton. Meanwhile, to get anywhere in the strip means wasting a few minutes traveling through it. This is especially bad if you are siding with the NCR, since traveling to the embassy means wasting a few minutes each time. Same goes for McCarron, where getting to the terminal takes ages. In both cases this is solveable by just adding in fast travel markers to the terminal and the embassy zone. That way you prevent sequence breaking. This is something that would be obvious to a gameplay (combat, travel, loot) focused company like Bethesda, but is missed by a more story focused designer like Obsidian. As another example, the early game of Fallout 1 and 2 is a time wasting chore. Getting from Arroyo to the Den or from Vault 13 to shady sands should not be the hardest part of the Goddamn game! Lots of death works in Dark Souls because you lose maybe 5 minutes of work each time. Repeated deaths forcing you to start over 15 minutes of gameplay is not fun and locks out the game to anyone who isn't a hardcore fan of the game. I tried to get my sister into the series and it took having to set up a save file starting in the den for her so she could avoid the bullshit that is the first few encounters.

Wasteland 2 is a good illustration of Obsidian's main flaws. Great atmosphere, annoying as fuck gameplay. Antiquated inventory management, dull, repetitive combat. Oh, and tons of combat with no way around it, which basically means ignoring the lessons of the fucking games that made their legend. Note, I use Obsidian loosely here, mostly to refer to that family (troika, inexile, Obsidian, ect) of developers. Alpha protocol, Torment, Arcanum, all great stories fucked over by crappy gameplay. Toment works because the combat is a side show, Arcanum on the other hand is a chore whenever you aren't in dialogue mode. In large part what made New Vegas so much fun was that it combined Obsidian's focus on story, lore and characters with the pre made gameplay framework provided by Bethesda. I think we'd be a lot less fond of New Vegas if it wasn't built around Fallout 3's gameplay.
 
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Who let the intellectually disabled people in?

I will not be insulted in such an offensive matter. As such I fixed it for you. Anyhoo, the poster before me did a bad job of things but can you honestly tell me you enjoy the gameplay (not conversations) of a lot of Obsidian's games? I mean, their best games, KOTOR 2 and New Vegas are basically built on someone else's frame.
 
Who let the intellectually disabled people in?

I will not be insulted in such an offensive matter. As such I fixed it for you. Anyhoo, the poster before me did a bad job of things but can you honestly tell me you enjoy the gameplay (not conversations) of a lot of Obsidian's games? I mean, their best games, KOTOR 2 and New Vegas are basically built on someone else's frame.

Yes I can. I enjoy a great many things. Interesting concept I know.
 
Which is kind of ironic considering you're pissed because we're defending 3. Anyway, I was hyperbolic there but the point I make remains. In a lot of the games the Obsidian group makes that aren't built around someone else's game design, the combat (gameplay) is often heavily flawed. Alpha Protocol and Arcanum are the best examples of this. Even Wasteland 2, which is built around combat, isn't that much fun to play and I say this as a lover of Advanced Squad Leader (a tabletop clusterfuck of rules on rules) and simpler games. Even Fallout 1 and 2 encounters mostly come down to "a bunch of people spawn on a flat plain, they click shoot and reload until one side dies". Also, on a side note, if you're making a game that entirely revolves around combat, have more than one fucking soundtrack for when you are in combat!

Challenge, name one of the Obsidian family (as mentioned above) games in which you honestly would get excited to be in a random encounter for if it contributed nothing to a quest or to your character. Mind you, haven't played Pillars of Eternity so feel free to mention it, I can't respond.
 
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I'm not debating you, I'm telling you that your opinion is wrong and you should feel bad about having it.

Welcome to the internet kid

Personal taste is not WRONG or RIGHT.
Opinions are never wrong or right only different.
You are confusing things quite a lot.
The only thing than can be wrong or right is scientific evidence and facts.
And even then some things in science change.
 
newbie- not helping. I don't know if you are used to entering old forums but basically this is what happens. There's a bunch of people who have been here a long while. They've seen a ton of stuff and really don't tolerate anyone new easily. For good or for ill. Strong point, tons of info and they know the subject deeply. Weak point, bit dogmatic and (understandably) dislike retreading old ground. So don't waste your time with the basics or mudslinging and try and come up with some new angles if you want to defend 3.
 
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