Don't Buy the Hype

Is it a bad time to bring this quote up again?

*Fallout 3 may not please you if you are one of eleven angry guys who may or may not frequent No Mutants Allowed.

:D Seriously though - well written. I have the highest hopes for this game but the sad reality is that you're probably right and we'll end up with a blockbuster game that doesn't measure up to the expectations of the core audience. Which is disappointing in more ways than one.
 
Bradylama, you have my deepest respect from now on. May the light of M'atra shine on your path for eternity.

I took the liberty of reposting the links to the article on several foras. Here are the results for now:

HalfLife2.net said:
* I read about 3/4 of it and got bored. Its a ****ing company trying to make money. No shit they are going to stop people from trash talking their shit on their website. Hes just pissed off that Bethesda doesn't give a damn about him. Heres a fun fact... no business ever gives a shit about anyone. If you are making trouble for them on their website and message boards then they will tell you gtfo.

Hes just a disappointed fan who was told to gtfo by a company and became a whiney bitch.

* Can't wait until Bethesda makes that Fallout sequel Im sure it'll be tons of fun

* wait, that is retarded long, summary?

* Summary:

I hate Bethesda. Alot. I don't want them making my fallout sequel. So im going to whine about it. The end.

Also somewhere in there we find out Bethesda is actually ruled by none other than Satan. Atleast thats what I got from it.

* I see enough of these whiners at Bethesda's forums.

* Oblivion was a HUGE letdown...I spent $70 on the CE....

* This guy is completley right. And no, I'm not being sarcastic.
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Planetfurry.com said:
* Interesting indeed.

I played Oblivion for about a month--was originally very impressed by it. However, when I realized that the equipment and monsters were scaled along with your character as you level, I was very dissappointed. I stopped playing about 7 months ago, and went back to World of Warcraft.

It's a crying shame, really--it looks like the quest system in Oblivion is very very well developed and varied. Graphically, it's beautiful. Unfortunately, graphics impress me only for about the first hour or so.

Star Trek: Legacy. Woa, what a FRUSTRATING and repetitive experience. I was asked by the lead designer here where I work (I work for a game development company) to take ST:L home and play through it. I just can't bring myself to get excited about it. Unfortunate, really, because I'm a big fan of Star Trek.
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I'm still waiting for other responses, though, it's been only seven hours since posting the topic.

EDIT: Interesting summary my friend, a devoted fan of The Elder Scrolls, sent me:

Vee Are Are Schee said:
I present to you my complete list of Developer Quotes hyping Oblivion, along with my rebuttals after having played it.


[Kathode] "All screenshots we've released are 100% in game showing stuff we've already got implemented. We haven't done any special poses or anything like that, with the exception of magazine covers."

[Vee] Except dynamic shadows was taken out, and, you know, the fact that the E3 trailer was showing stuff that was probably never even intended to be in the final game anyway, but sure, whatever you say!



[MrSmileyFaceDude] "I'm sorry, but what part of "without losing our hardcore rpg fans" don't you understand?"

[Vee] You keep using that phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means.


[Slateman] "Each of the faction lines in this game have plots and quests to much greater depth over MW. Quality, not quantity."

[Vee] Yeah, those gang wars that comprise the Fighters Guild and Mages Guild questlines are real super.


[MrSmileyFaceDude] "I know you don't want to hear it, but you're just going to have to trust us that the dialogue is better than Morrowind's."

[Vee] I hear the Fighters Guild is recruiting again. Not bad work for some folks.


[Todd] "As you play, you start to figure out what you can do with these NPCs, and how you can influence their behavior, and when doing a quest, it really comes into play. A simple 'get the diamond from that guy...' quest can be done in hundreds of ways now."

[Vee] "Quest-Popup: Turentias Villias has the diamond. I need to kill him and take it."


[VSXX] "We have everything from mice to moles to crickets. The most fearsome you have ever seen even! You thought sleeping at night with a singing cricket outside your window was bad. You wait till you meet the one that plays a 14 piece drum set outside your window."

[Vee] huh?


[Pete] "Honestly, and this is just my opinion, I think the hardcore RPG guys are going to love what we have in store for them in Oblivion. The depth, the level of polish...it crushes Morrowind. That doesn't mean that other people won't want to buy it and play it because it's a beautiful game that has fun combat and cool quests. We'll make enough copies for everyone."

[Vee] Cool, so when are you releasing the copies for the hardcore RPG guys?


[MrSmileyFaceDude] "You'll be reading LOTS of stuff. All of the quest lines are much more in depth, challenging and interesting. And there's a heck of a lot more to the game than just the guilds and the main quest. Lots and lots of other things to do that haven't been mentioned. Stats play a huge, huge role. Class actually has meaning this time. The game is better balanced. You have more rewards for advancement besides just getting better at things. The dungeons are better designed, the NPCs are more interesting, the dialogue is better written.

If you think this is a simple, dumbed down hack & slash, you couldn't be more wrong."

[Vee] lol



[BlueDev] "For Oblivion, there's a very concious effort to avoid too much random information spewing by NPCs. Fear not--there's still the same amount of info to be found in the game. In fact, the NPCs probably have more than ever to say; it just makes more sense for them to say it."

[Vee] I hear the Fighters Guild is recruiting again. Not bad work for some folks.


[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Oblivion is infinitely superior to Morrowind in every conceivable way."

[Vee] If all you can conceive of is graphics, then that sentence is technically right.


[MattRyan] "So for all of you thinking that it would be neat to steal something, and then take off on your horse....guess what? An NPC can do the same dirty trick to you as well. "

[Vee] Except for when they chose not to, which is always.



[Todd] "The clothing you wear does affect certain NPC's, but not in a big way, it’s subtle."

[Vee] No Todd, that is Morrowind, you got confused.



[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Broken shields and weapons are automatically dropped and they clatter to the ground using Havok physics. Broken armor stays on, but is ineffective and you'll know if you're wearing broken armor or not."

[Vee] No they don't. Although, he's right, you will know if you're wearing broken armor or not. If you open up the menu and shift through all the tabs to the armor page and then look at your armor's condition. I like doing that every five minutes.


[Slateman] "While I cannot go into detail, rest assured that even players who max out a bunch of skills will discover challenges in this game. We didn't leave you guys out "

[Vee] Because rats level up with you and can kick your ass even at level 30.


[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Just because you can attempt to bribe someone does not mean they'll automatically accept it."

[Vee] No that is Morrowind again.


[MattRyan] "In conclusion, to completely cut out any adjustment to difficulty in enemies would not be fun, just as making all creatures off-set to your level would not be fun."

[Vee] Oh. So, uh, why did you do that?




[Slateman] "Yep. To second MSFD, we don't auto-level exactly to your level. We have all sorts of adjustments available. If we didn't the game would be boring "

[Vee] Sometimes the enemies will be 2 levels higher than you, sometimes they'll be THREE levels higher than you!



[MattRyan] "If everything was leveled then you'd have no fear of anything in the game ('I can beat everything!') We plan on scaring the heck out of the player by higher level creatures."

[Vee] Which appear only when you get to a higher level of course.



[MrSmileyFaceDude] "We happen to think that console gamers are smarter than that, and the success of Morrowind on Xbox proves that console gamers actually ARE interested in games with MORE depth and complexity than some people seem to think they are."

[Vee] Of course you still made Oblivion pretty shallow but yeah whatever.


[MrSmileyFaceDude] "You can only use the map-based fast travel to go to places you've already been. So you'll HAVE to walk to each possible location AT LEAST once."

[Vee] Except for the cities. And some dungeons. And some other places you can teleport to instantly.



[MrSmileyFaceDude] "We could make traditional creatures that looked like every other depiction of those creatures you've seen in books, movies, or other games, but then where's the originality in that?"

[Vee] Look! How original! I've never seen this in every game ever!


[MrSmileyFaceDude] "NPCs would have to be told to go into your house via Radiant AI. And even if they WERE, you could always lock your door..."

[Vee] It's sad that there could be so much wrong with such a short sentence.


[Slateman] "Trust me, you're going to get lost if you wander in these forests and don't use the compass or map."

[Vee] If you get lost in an Oblivion forest, then I have serious questions about your ability to even find your own bed.



[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Resurrected NPCs are not themselves. They're basically mindless automata who will follow you around and fight for you."

[Vee] If you get an item put in as an after-thought at the end of a guild questline.



[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Oblivion is an extremely rich, complex game with a tremendous amount of depth, compelling quest lines, interesting NPC characters, a huge variety of player character types and intricate character progression set in a huge, varied game world. combat, magic, and AI have all been dramatically improved to enhance gameplay while still providing a balance between player skill and character skill, because after all, Oblivion is a role playing game. Yes, some things that were present in Morrowind are not in Oblivion -- but a lot more has been added than removed, and the goal has always been to make a game that is both more accessible to first-time RPG players, and is also challenging and rewarding for more experienced players."

[Vee] Yeah, it's sure a challenge all right. For instance, I have trouble roleplaying in-character during even the most minor of quests.


[Pete] "We will continue to support the mod community as best we can and let them do the great things they do, just as we did with Morrowind."

[Vee] ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha



[Sentinel] "The sad fact is that many development studios can't afford to bankroll their own game development. So they rely on publishers to give them the money to create these games. The problem with this is that the publisher then feels they should have input into the game since they are spending the money. Hence Atari and EA have such a big influence on a game they publish.

Just glad here at Bethesda we are our own publisher and developer and have free reign to make what we want."

[Vee] Which is still watered-down tripe.



[MrSmileyFaceDude] "We're NOT going to slap in features that don't work well just to say we have them."

[Vee] Horses, RAI, Havok Physics, FaceGen, SpeedTree...



[MrSmileyFaceDude] "The compass, the quest marker and compass icons, are NOT the hand-holding, dumbing down babysitter some folks paint them out to be."

[Vee] They turned out to be even worse than we could have ever imagined.
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SuAside said:
i think we've found a kindred spirit in this Vee dude.
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Actually, Oblivion seems to be very unpopular with the overall TES crowd, even the ones that loved Morrowind.
 
Sander said:
SuAside said:
i think we've found a kindred spirit in this Vee dude.
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Actually, Oblivion seems to be very unpopular with the overall TES crowd, even the ones that loved Morrowind.
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A lot of people are leaving the official boards, as of late, too. And the same goes for modders. A lot of nice modders are also leaving because of the lack of support from bethesda, and simply because they don't like the game anymore. That didn't quite happen with Morrowind, at least that I know of. Due to this modder exodus, Oblivion community has been witnessing a kind of "rebirth", because there are a lot of new and unexperienced modders (relatively speaking), in comparison to a few months ago. A lot of them only started working with the CS, but it's also possible to find some oldschool, although with each passing day they become more and more difficult to find.

So, yeah, a lot of the TES community is realizing they only bought the hype, and were continuously buying it for the time they modded the game. Just like myself, I should add. :oops: I dropped modding a while ago, already, but only recently did i wrote my "suicide note" with a probably offensive thread, complaining about bethesda not caring about their "fans" and stuff. One thing I noticed, though, there are still a LOT of people that actually *like* oblivion... A case to be studied, perhaps...
 
Wow..... I had no faith in Bethesda to begin with (after playing Oblivion and thinking "why the F**k am I playing this"). Thank you so much Bradylama for really shining the light on how bad Bethesda really is, I'm going to never buy another game they put out again. Maybe just maybe they might actually make Fallout once again what it was but you never know it could just be another Brotherhood of S**T for ps2 and xbox. Thanks again.
 
Great stuff. It's sad, because I enjoyed Morrowind, and expected Oblivion to be a huge upgrade. It was fun for a little bit, considering how great the graphics are, but it didn't take all that long to get really bored with it. Upon reading the Oblivion hype that Mikael Grizzly posted, I found myself realizing how lacking Oblivion was.

We can hope they do justice to Fallout, but it doesn't seem like the expectation is there. I just don't see how, after the BoS disaster, a company could even consider making it an FPS.
 
Wooz said:
Broken link.
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I think it might be something on your side, as it seems to work fine for me. Not that there is much to see besides the reposted article at this point, with no replies.

Marines, where did you see Desslock's comments?

Edit: Well, I found this this interesting, if unrelated, comment in that fanatical pit of hostility and ignorance (at least towards NMA) that is Quarter to Three forums.
Desslock said:
Interesting. One of the reasons so many older RPG fans are so passionate about Oblivion is because it's basically, finally, a worthwhile successor to Ultima VII -- the game that, for many of us, is our favourite game of all time. It was pretty damn frustrating having to wait almost 15 years for a game to finally emulate (and top) Ultima VII's design in so many ways -- I honestly was beginning to doubt if we'd ever get another game to pick up the Ultima baton (still feel the same way about FreeSpace 2 and Star Control 2) because even though Black Isle/Troika/BioWare have produced some great RPGs, none of them advanced Ultima's design style (it really took the Gothic games, in addition to Oblivion, to do so).
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Great article. I knew about some of that stuff but I was ignorant of the whole picture. Though I think it's kinda funny that they locked it on the beth fallout board after it had been up for about an hour.
They're best bet to kill it would have been to just ignore the damned thing. By Locking it they've just strengthened the arguments against them.

At least now I think I can get ready for the shot to the gut before the game comes out. It'll be better than BOS at least. There's no way they can screw it up any worse.
 
thenightgaunt said:
Great article. I knew about some of that stuff but I was ignorant of the whole picture. Though I think it's kinda funny that they locked it on the beth fallout board after it had been up for about an hour.
They're best bet to kill it would have been to just ignore the damned thing. By Locking it they've just strengthened the arguments against them.

At least now I think I can get ready for the shot to the gut before the game comes out. It'll be better than BOS at least. There's no way they can screw it up any worse.
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Die, gravedigger.
 
Awesome, fantastic, excellent...uh...fabulous article. I know I'm not the only one that appreciates the effort you put into it.

Oh, and what was the reaction of this being posted on the official Beth forums? Both of my accounts there have been suspended for 16 years. Why? In a poll, I admitted that if FO3 turned out to be an FPS I'd just end up downloading it. :roll: Anyway, I'm just wondering what the reaction was before it got locked.
 
Wow, Bradylama. Great work. You have an eloquent style and you certainly seem to know how to wield your <strike>penis</strike> pen. I'm impressed.

I do not like the whole sources/links section at the end, though. That's so college-like. I know that professors like you to add your sources, but real journalists can't be bothered with crap like that. Ever seen stuff like that in the papers or normal magazines? It's garbage. It belongs in periodicals that deal with philosophy or close reading. Real writers should avoid that blurb. It takes away the spontaneity of the article. Just a hint. :wink:
 
Absolutely brilliant post. Thumbs up :D

Also, I got banned... 4 times from the beth forums, no reason given, I'm assuming its for not being a bethesda fanboi. Hilarity.
 
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