Dragon Age II: now more like Mass Effect 2

OakTable said:
As far as dialogue wheels and trees are concerned, I could care less. One you read, the other you hear. I'm not really seeing why RPG Codex faggots get their panties in a bunch over it when there are better things to bitch about, like the fact that they removed the interesting Origins in favor of some human guy with a fanfiction-y name.
The main problem results from the disconnect between what you select on the wheel and what your character actually says. Or at least, that's been the problem with the implementations of the wheel so far. It's probably created in large part because a wheel makes it a lot harder to write out fully-formed options.
 
OakTable said:
As far as dialogue wheels and trees are concerned, I could care less. One you read, the other you hear. I'm not really seeing why RPG Codex faggots get their panties in a bunch over it when there are better things to bitch about, like the fact that they removed the interesting Origins in favor of some human guy with a fanfiction-y name.
Its not our fault if people forget what the intention was behind emulating PNP RPGs on the computer screen.

There was more behind it then just "reading dialogue" or "spining a wheel".
 
Brother None said:
The sole real positive point from this was
8) The PC version's combat system remains mostly the same. "The PC version implements the same strategic approach afforded by a mouse-and-keyboard control scheme." "Rather than try to mimic the PC experience on consoles, Dragon Age II has a battle system more tailored to the strengths of the PS3 and 360."

"Mostly the same" means "no isometric view" apparently, unfortunately. :(

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Max21/No_new_toolset_for_Dragon_Age_2
 
After playing "Dragon Age: Origins" for a while i must say that i would like to buy a ticket for the "I hate Bioware" bandwagon. I prefer a game like Alpha Protocol. Say what you want about the game but it was a very, VERY refreshing experience after playing that boring and lifeless shit that is DA:O.
 
Ausir said:
http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Max21/No_new_toolset_for_Dragon_Age_2
I don't get it, did they say it's "too complicated" even though they had it in the first Dragon Age?

Sounds like laziness to me, or console-favouritism.
 
Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude said:
So the wheel is for voiced PCs and the dialog tree is not. Although the wheel is annoying, a fully voiced dialog tree really wouldn't work either, as you would have already read the response in its entirety before you clicked it.
I don't see why voice acting the dialogue in a tree wouldn't work, it might be annoying to some folks but I think that it'd be fine.

Sander said:
The main problem results from the disconnect between what you select on the wheel and what your character actually says. Or at least, that's been the problem with the implementations of the wheel so far. It's probably created in large part because a wheel makes it a lot harder to write out fully-formed options.
I'm pretty sure that's the reason that they went with icons over the short sentences again and that seems like it'd be better. That said, I don't see why they don't just use a dialogue tree, it's not like the wheel wasn't just a tree with shiny buttons and misleading sentences. It's not like you couldn't do shiny buttons with dialogue trees either, it's just that they've been done the same way for forever.

As for the graphics, it's obviously unfinished so it's a little early to be bitching about how shitty it looks.
 
UncannyGarlic said:
I don't see why voice acting the dialogue in a tree wouldn't work, it might be annoying to some folks but I think that it'd be fine.
As proven by, for instance, The Witcher.
 
News like this doesn't make me hopeful for Mass Effect 3. I didn't like the first game, because so much of it was shit and the story was "meh," and while the second one was better in most aspects, it was only an RPG in the sense that "You can put points into skills" and "dialogue choices." I was never really bothered by having my character named for me, since on the list of "RPG shit I care about" that's right around "Needing to remember to use the bathroom."

I just wish they could actually integrate action and rpg properly.

Imagine, for instance, more planets you encounter could be landed on. There was one in ME2, can't recall the name of it now, that was the base of a shit-ton of slavers. All this planet had was a bunch of info about the slave trade on the world. I wanted to land on that planet, sneak in, and give several of the bosses a lead sandwich. How you accomplish this is based on the squad you bring (And on that note, can we please get more than 2 other people in a squad?), their technical, biotic, and combat skills. Bringing back things like the Electronics skills and whatnot, to change how you do whatever you're on the planet to do.

There is a planet with animals, that due to exposure to eezo, have developed biotics. The only interaction you have with this planet is to scan it. Such an opportunity, wasted.
 
zkylon said:
UncannyGarlic said:
I don't see why voice acting the dialogue in a tree wouldn't work, it might be annoying to some folks but I think that it'd be fine.
As proven by, for instance, The Witcher.

How was it exactly proven? It didn't bother me and never ever heard anybody complain about it.
 
Hamenaglar said:
zkylon said:
UncannyGarlic said:
I don't see why voice acting the dialogue in a tree wouldn't work, it might be annoying to some folks but I think that it'd be fine.
As proven by, for instance, The Witcher.

How was it exactly proven? It didn't bother me and never ever heard anybody complain about it.
I think you're arguing with someone who's agreeing with you here...
 
what the hell is a 'dialogue tree'?! is it the normal/classic dialogues where you can choose what you say as opposed to choosing your stance/emotion (the newer wheel thingy that is mostly crap)

btw any release date for the witcher 2 (lately i am much more excited at any european release)
 
SkuLL said:
Hamenaglar said:
zkylon said:
UncannyGarlic said:
I don't see why voice acting the dialogue in a tree wouldn't work, it might be annoying to some folks but I think that it'd be fine.
As proven by, for instance, The Witcher.

How was it exactly proven? It didn't bother me and never ever heard anybody complain about it.
I think you're arguing with someone who's agreeing with you here...

Oh, then I misunderstood it. Because witcher 2 is going to have those mass effect style dialogues, just without wheel and I don't like it. Some arguments are that people don't want to first read and then hear the same thing.

mor said:
what the hell is a 'dialogue tree'?! is it the normal/classic dialogues where you can choose what you say as opposed to choosing your stance/emotion (the newer wheel thingy that is mostly crap)

btw any release date for the witcher 2 (lately i am much more excited at any european release)

I'm not that happy with some of the changes they are making in witcher 2, so not that excited (yet).

Release date is (according to wikipedia) Q1 2011.
 
Hamenaglar said:
Oh, then I misunderstood it. Because witcher 2 is going to have those mass effect style dialogues, just without wheel and I don't like it. Some arguments are that people don't want to first read and then hear the same thing.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I think it would be annoying in most RPGs where you create your character from scratch. There are too many voice options (different races/classes/sexes), and it's hard to get it right, so people prefer their hero to be 'voiceless'.

But it really suits games like the Witcher where there's just that one character . Means the developers can afford to spend time to make his voice really good and believable.
 
SkuLL said:
Hamenaglar said:
Oh, then I misunderstood it. Because witcher 2 is going to have those mass effect style dialogues, just without wheel and I don't like it. Some arguments are that people don't want to first read and then hear the same thing.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I think it would be annoying in most RPGs where you create your character from scratch. There are too many voice options (different races/classes/sexes), and it's hard to get it right, so people prefer their hero to be 'voiceless'.

But it really suits games like the Witcher where there's just that one character . Means the developers can afford to spend time to make his voice really good and believable.

I'm not sure it will ever work for me, because I really don't want to guess what my character will say.
 
Hamenaglar said:
Oh, then I misunderstood it. Because witcher 2 is going to have those mass effect style dialogues, just without wheel and I don't like it.
Yeah, i agree with you :)

I'm also uneasy on the changes being made to TW2. At least it's not being released in consoles anymore...
 
A more dynamic dialogue system could be very interesting though. Depending on the situation of course. It really has to be implemented in a inteligent natural way not forced on the player so just that its "there" (which sadly many games do today with their features ... and thus make it feel artifical). What I mean is that when youre somewhat in the heat of a conversation with people next to it its from a realistic point silly that the world is freezing around you while you have a conversation remember when combat would always emidiately stop in some RPGs cause someone started to talk with you ? Now imagine you have 2 or 3 options that are quite important for the character you are talking with and where you do not have any clue what would happen in the future but you dont have much time cause the enemy will be breaching the main gate soon or other times you have a dialogue with someone and you get a third person interacting with it. Its hard to describe what I mean. But with a dynamic dialogue things could feel more realistic regarding conversations with NPCs. Of course if done well. But I agree the chance to simply fuck it up is higher then to make it "right". But I liked the witcher and it was a great game thus I have some faith in that team.
 
zkylon said:
Hamenaglar said:
Oh, then I misunderstood it. Because witcher 2 is going to have those mass effect style dialogues, just without wheel and I don't like it.
Yeah, i agree with you :)

I'm also uneasy on the changes being made to TW2. At least it's not being released in consoles anymore...

I believe it is, it's just that it'll be primary for pc and then in the following months converted to consoles, but usually it's the other way around so I'm not bothered.

A more dynamic dialogue system could be very interesting though. Depending on the situation of course. It really has to be implemented in a inteligent natural way not forced on the player so just that its "there" (which sadly many games do today with their features ... and thus make it feel artifical). What I mean is that when youre somewhat in the heat of a conversation with people next to it its from a realistic point silly that the world is freezing around you while you have a conversation remember when combat would always emidiately stop in some RPGs cause someone started to talk with you ? Now imagine you have 2 or 3 options that are quite important for the character you are talking with and where you do not have any clue what would happen in the future but you dont have much time cause the enemy will be breaching the main gate soon or other times you have a dialogue with someone and you get a third person interacting with it. Its hard to describe what I mean. But with a dynamic dialogue things could feel more realistic regarding conversations with NPCs. Of course if done well. But I agree the chance to simply fuck it up is higher then to make it "right". But I liked the witcher and it was a great game thus I have some faith in that team.

I don't know, I like to take my time with dialogues, still I hope there will be some way to play with full dialogues (either an option or modded in).

witcher indeed was a great game and I absolutely love it, so I hope witcher 2 will be just as good. At least there will be no level scaling.
 
I have to admit that there I have encountered dialogue in RPGs which I read as having an entirely different tone/direction than the game reads, so the icons could be a good thing at times. I'd still prefer being able to read the full dialogue choice but I'm with Crni that it could certainly enable much more cinematic and naturally flowing conversations. Again, that's why I'd prefer a combination of the two, allowing people who prefer to ponder over their options to do so and allowing people who prefer to be quick to do so. That said, I still see potential problems with the system.

Since I forgot to mention this in my last post, keep in mind that PST had the same protagonist every time with customization being limited to classes at the get-go. Complain about what you will but I think it's a bit much to suggest that because there is a single background that the game will be RPG light, I think there is much better evidence to support that argument.
 
rcorporon said:

Holy crap. Doesn't anyone proofread over at IGN? The article is full of errors. Also, strangely, all the screenshots in that article look horrible. Character models and textures seem like they are from a few years ago already.

On a story note, I wish they would've just let the Darkspawn be contained to their first game, expansions, DLC's, whatever. Darkspawn are a horrible premises for a story. Where else but 'fight the Darkspawn', and 'unite against the Darkspawn', can you go with such an unrelentingly evil entity? They offer no interesting options. They're simply the new orcs but with even less humanity. And seriously, what is it with 'evil' that it always is supposed to want to destroy everything in these games? There's no point to evil for evil in itself. They don't build anything, they don't try to achieve anything. They could at least enslave humans. Really, what's the point of making everything 'blightlands'. If you go for world domination, you should at least improve your own situation while doing so.
 
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