Dragon Age II: now more like Mass Effect 2

[Sander]

I don't see a difference between what they are calling a "dialogue tree" and the "conversation wheel."

Isn't one the same as the other, except in shape? I mean, the conversations in ME weren't in real time or anything. They could have had the conversations in ME listed from the top down, and had the same effect.

Kind of, but the wheel had the consequence of having to work with keywords instead of properly written out lines. One of the most infuriating things about the Mass Effect games was when your character would say something different than you thought he would say.

 

[mor]

by the way what the deal with fable, is it worse it?!

because i read few review saying its amazing deep, a lot of option, consequences etc but i cant avoid the feeling of sims when i look at it, all those gestures etc..

Those reviews you've read are full of it.

Fable and Fable II are exceedingly simple and simplistic games. The storyline is insipid and often nonsensical, especially in Fable II. There are no real consequences to your actions as there are very few significant choices to be made, and those choices that are to be made are of the extremely simplistic black-white variety.

that what i thought, i tried the first fable for a 2 hours and got bored and ever since i get that guilt because i keep seeing that guy (who in 30 years will look like the pedophile from family guy) speaking about his marvelous game and his dog and milo and how there consequences and walking in the gray area and i alway feel like he is full of it but couldnt back it up...
so i am happy with all the decisive opinions regarding fable because its confirms what i felt all along.

 

[mor]

He killed so many skeletons, that he doesn't care shit anymore. That's why his face expression looks how it looks. He is in dream land right now and dreams about smashing unicorns instead of skeletons.

nahh its just ptsd

 

[Bal-Sagoth]

woot ?! Diablo is an slash&hack, in my opinion there is no more dumb down RPG than this.
the ability to pick stuff and equip them, is what called RPG's elements, other wise ME1/2 should be one of the best RPG's evAr !

and putting DA:O with diable in the same sentence is just wrong, diablo is god of wars in ISO and with RPG elements e.g. ARPG at best not RPG.

Alright alright, don't get all RPGCodex elitist on me. I realize all of us here (myself included) are super nerds and differentiate the difference between RPGs, but mainstream casuals and reviewers do not. Mark my words, Diablo III will be hailed as the savior to PC RPG gaming, win countless RPG GotY and just general GotY awards and absolutely smash the charts when it comes to sales. Diablo III is an RPG, it may be a different RPG when compared to others but it is an RPG all the same.

And yeah as far as those screens go, I am not holding my breath. Many here know that I am a champion of the PS3 and console gaming in general but I do firmly believe there is a line that should not be crossed to dumb down a game just to get more sales on consoles.
Console and PC gaming offers two different but equally enjoyable experiences and in this case one is being sold short of what could have been an amazing game just to make bank, shame on Bioware.

 

[Crni Vuk]

stop dissing Diablo 2. It was very great as Action RPG. Its not Diablos fault when people blame it that it has not deep content just as its not Fallouts fault that its not a "Diablo" ~ even when it seems that some people would love to make it that ...

I don't see a difference between what they are calling a "dialogue tree" and the "conversation wheel."

the issue is that one of them is seen as "old" while the other as "new". Even though when it isnt really new or inovative. But games sell better when they are inovative. Or so they say. No clue. Mass Effect might be a good game for it self. But its hardly really inovative. Yet many or the magazines slobber over it like its the holy grail of RPGs when in fact what it does is just beeing a part of the long history of making light action RPGs "real" RPGs. There was a difference once between such games like if you want Diablo, Mass Effect and such games like Fallout or similar. Today those kind of lines dont exit anymore and everything that has "roleplay" inside or 1 or 2 dialogues can be already seen as deep game (see Oblivion or Fallout 3 for that matter ...). The term RPG doesnt mean today anything anymore. Not in the same way as in the past where it was a definition like where you would always knew that a game which was called a "shooter" was usualy a straight forward brainless kill-the-nameles-monsters game

 

[Mettle]

IGN XBox preview

. Dialogue has been simplified so that you only have up to three choices. Each choice is represented by an icon that indicates whether or it's a "good," "nasty," or "badass" choice. Good choices are represented by an olive branch, nasty by a Greek comedy mask, and badass by a red fist. This is an easy way to gauge what response your dialogue choices will produce.

Not a terribly interesting preview, made me want to go to bed and forget this days existence though.

 

[Arden]

. Dialogue has been simplified so that you only have up to three choices. Each choice is represented by an icon that indicates whether or it's a "good," "nasty," or "badass" choice. Good choices are represented by an olive branch, nasty by a Greek comedy mask, and badass by a red fist. This is an easy way to gauge what response your dialogue choices will produce.

Three eh? Hope the tards won't be overwhelmed by so many choices. Nice touch with the icons too, with these and full voice acting, who needs the ability to read?



*sigh*

 

[rcorporon]

Yeah... reading sure sucks. This game is going to blow.

 

[generalissimofurioso]

Well, there goes the last bit of respect I had for Bioware.

Their games aren't even close to being RPGs anymore, just action games with dialogue choices.

 

[Crni Vuk]

. Dialogue has been simplified so that you only have up to three choices. Each choice is represented by an icon that indicates whether or it's a "good," "nasty," or "badass" choice. Good choices are represented by an olive branch, nasty by a Greek comedy mask, and badass by a red fist. This is an easy way to gauge what response your dialogue choices will produce.

thats still to complex. They should take the inovation a step further and let simply the game decide always for the "badass" option thus making it a simple interactive action movie ... I mean "next gen RPG" ...

 

[Guiltyofbeingtrite]

Well, there goes the last bit of respect I had for Bioware.

Their games aren't even close to being RPGs anymore, just action games with dialogue choices.

I'd love to hear their response to this, I wonder what it would be.

 

[Brother None]

They just say "streamline" instead of dumbed down and "improved experience" instead of "more action". Problem solved

 

[Lexx]

That's epic stuff. Really good read. Especially how they maneuver with words.

 

[Brother None]

Three eh? Hope the tards won't be overwhelmed by so many choices. Nice touch with the icons too, with these and full voice acting, who needs the ability to read?

Oh yeah, and this is not true
We put up to 5 choice options and 5 investigate options per dialog node. There is also a difference between choices (where you are actually deciding something) and giving you the opportunity to express yourself in different ways (which I think is quite cool, but not something I believe we have released any details on yet).

 

[rcorporon]

That's good news, to be sure. Although, I really wish I could figure out how a dialogue "wheel" is different from simply listing dialogue choices.

 

[Brother None]

It's not, it's just kind of annoying. And more cinematic!!!

If they ever figure out that using the same buttons for skipping dialogue lines and picking dialogue lines is a bad idea, that'll be a huge leap forward.

 

[Arden]

Oh yeah, and this is not true

What a relief, thanks. Perhaps that IGN-guy could count only to 3. I blame the games hes playing

 

[Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude]

That's good news, to be sure. Although, I really wish I could figure out how a dialogue "wheel" is different from simply listing dialogue choices.

Comparing ME/2 to DA:O/KoTOR with the wheel and tree:

The wheel has one sentence or less, and often doesn't correspond directly to what the voiced character says. The "Go fuck yourself" option might lead to a lengthy speech on how the opposing character isn't such a nice guy. The options on the wheel are supposed to give you the gist of what the PC is going to say, but they didn't do very good job of that in ME/2.

While with the tree, what you see is what you get. If you click the "Go fuck yourself" line, your character says "Go fuck yourself" (although it's not going to be voiced), and then the NPC responds.

So the wheel is for voiced PCs and the dialog tree is not. Although the wheel is annoying, a fully voiced dialog tree really wouldn't work either, as you would have already read the response in its entirety before you clicked it.

 

[OakTable]

As far as dialogue wheels and trees are concerned, I could care less. One you read, the other you hear. I'm not really seeing why RPG Codex faggots get their panties in a bunch over it when there are better things to bitch about, like the fact that they removed the interesting Origins in favor of some human guy with a fanfiction-y name.

 

[mor]

i think that the main oppositions to wheel trees because usually its an indication to action orientated game.
where you dont need to read or think about your choices but choose a predictable stance good up bad down, investigate to the left...
basically its simple way to skip all dialogue and go back shooting...