DRM and You! Thread

[Bofast]

Re: Bioshock 2's DRM Onion

Two options:
a) it's a conspiracy/the publishers are massively incompetent/they just hate piracy without rhyme or reasons
b) they're a business and spend long hard hours searching desparately for the most profitable way to create games, and the ones that haven't fled to consoles concluded for a reason that DRM is the answer, though social-based DRM like GfWL and Steam are gaining ground.

Shouldn't you include the possibility that DRM is as much about trying to kill the used games market? After all, that is where Gamestop and similar stores can make quite a bit of money, customers who are dissatisfied with a game they bought can get some of their money back and other potential customers can get a legal copy of the game without the developer getting anything after the original sale?
This is obviously excluding the fact that the people who sell their games can use the money to buy new ones if they so wish, and the fact that if a lot of people sell their games you probably have a problem with customer satisfaction. Most of what I've seen from the larger companies about this, however, is them ignoring both of those points and talking about finding ways to get more money out of it somehow, like charging Gamestop in one way or the other.

DRM is, imo, often as much about trying to control customers (and their ability to do what they want with what they have already spent hard-earned money on) as it is about preventing piracy, the latter sounds better, however.

 

[Brother None]

Decided to make this the DRM thread.

Because this is just too much, hilarity+1 level, even for me and I usually don't give a shit about DRM

Assassin's Creed 2 and Settlers 7 need you to be online when you're playing. Always.

If you offline/have a network glitch/whatever while playing - or equally if their network service screws up - it'll quit to menu (not saving your progress) and won't allow you to play until you go online again/they fix their network.

That's.

Wow.

Just wow.

 

[PlanHex]

They'll lose more money than they would gain with this because of all the customer support calls, if the eventual boycott/indifference from the buyers doesn't tip it over the edge already.
It's incredible that anyone thought this was a good idea.

 

[Bofast]

Decided to make this the DRM thread.

Because this is just too much, hilarity+1 level, even for me and I usually don't give a shit about DRM

Assassin's Creed 2 and Settlers 7 need you to be online when you're playing. Always.

If you offline/have a network glitch/whatever while playing - or equally if their network service screws up - it'll quit to menu (not saving your progress) and won't allow you to play until you go online again/they fix their network.

That's.

Wow.

Just wow.

Wow, that has got to be some kind of world record in stupidity

 

[Sorrow]

If you offline/have a network glitch/whatever while playing - or equally if their network service screws up - it'll quit to menu (not saving your progress) and won't allow you to play until you go online again/they fix their network.

That's.

Wow.

Just wow.

But there's nothing wrong with DRM!
It's not a news, though. It was known since the Silent Hunter 5.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMfBSq8x2-M[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu-Vgi5H3FA[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUgS24uSFSk[/youtube]



Anyway, the main reason why I have Linux on my comp instead of WinXP (besides the price - which is bypassable due to OEM copies available on Allegro) is what I had to go through to install WinXP on my mother's comp (I had some problems with partitioning the disk, so I had to re-start the install several times, which included inserting a system restore disk, inserting an install disk, typing a code and then doing the stuff I was supposed to do. Not to mention having to phone them to activate the damned thing.) - I strongly prefer when products I buy are user friendly.
Anyway, all this DRM stuff went a bit too far for me when online activation was introduced. Then thingies and stuffies like Starforce, DRMs that create incompatibility, ugh.
What drove me over the edge, was the microsoft newspeak about protecting users from "falsified" copies and weird stuff like "Windows Genuine Advantage" - also the communicates that I've read when installing WinXP strongly suggested that whoever wrote them was clinically insane.
I strongly prefer when products I buy aren't downright creepy.

I have trouble with tolerating any form of DRM besides CD-keys, yes it includes CD-checks, password booklets, questions from manual and all the other intrusive crap.

And yes, China, Russia and the like are largely irrelevant as markets due to the prevalence of piracy.

Wrong. They are irrelevant as markets because luxury goods are expensive and they are even more expensive in countries full of poor hard working people.

 

[Sander]

Wrong. They are irrelevant as markets because luxury goods are expensive and they are even more expensive in countries full of poor hard working people.

So they'd be cheap in countries full of poor, lazy people? Why even add 'hard working' there? Are you really just trying to imply that only people in poor countries work hard?

Also, no, this is not really true. Piracy is huge in China and Russia because of a lack of copyright laws and enforcement, which means the market is wide open for pirated copies. The fact that fewer people can afford luxury products is secondary, especially because of the immense population that China has (look at the figures WoW is getting there, for instance).

 

[Sorrow]

Also, no, this is not really true. Piracy is huge in China and Russia because of a lack of copyright laws and enforcement, which means the market is wide open for pirated copies.

And where it isn't?

 

[Sander]

Also, no, this is not really true. Piracy is huge in China and Russia because of a lack of copyright laws and enforcement, which means the market is wide open for pirated copies.

And where it isn't?

You can't just open shops selling pirated wares in most countries that have functional copyright laws. You can in China.

 

[Dario ff]

You can't just open shops selling pirated wares in most countries that have functional copyright laws. You can in China.

Here in Argentina(as well as the neighbor latinoamerican countries) have lots of shops with pirated software/games. They even act as legitimate business, with official logos, and they even have tech support.

A CD costs you 5 pesos(1,25 USD), 1 DVD = 10(2,5 USD), 2DVD or DVD-DL 20 (5 USD). Most of the boxes are printed from the originals(with a rather low quality), and in their backs there are instructions in how to crack the game.

Heck, even the best Left 4 Dead 2 server in Argentina has in it's front page links for downloading Left 4 Dead 2

There are 1 or 2 big shops that sell original games. That's where I bought Fallout

So I guess copyright laws are barely functional at all here.

 

[Sorrow]

Also, no, this is not really true. Piracy is huge in China and Russia because of a lack of copyright laws and enforcement, which means the market is wide open for pirated copies.

And where it isn't?

You can't just open shops selling pirated wares in most countries that have functional copyright laws. You can in China.

People pay for pirated games O_o ? The only reason anyone would do it that I can think of is that they can't afford an Internet connection, which kinda eliminates them as game buyers.

 

[Aphyosis]

I can't understand why companies include other DRM in Steam releases. Seriously, Steam is currently the best and least intrusive method - why the hell do you put in your crippled, limping crap too?

Agree completely. I actually like steam, its a centralized Platform which lets me direct download my games and easily access all of them. Do NOT get me started on GFWL though. Its a completely pointless login and as a really petty gripe, giving me one of those shitty 360 avatar things annoys the crap out of me. If i wanted to be involved in that juvenile practice, i'd play the fucking sims or buy a 360.

Also it doesn't fucking work. Can't login or download updates with Xfire running and i spent hours trying to get Batman to even run with it, let alone Bioshock 2. In the 3 games i own that have it, i have had;

1. Unable to connect issues
2. Invalid region issues
3. Starting a new save caused it to crash.
4. Can't login or update with Xfire running, which is a incredibly popular gaming program

This is minor shit compared to some of the crap i've read about. I would love to backhand the dickhead who envisioned it.

 

[Dead Guy]

I have trouble tolerating any form of DRM that does not involve beaker levels and crouton positions.

This Ubisoft madness seems like the peak of counterproductivity in punishing gamers that pay for the game. I remember the days of Quake, when the "DRM" consisted of a message when you started the game that read something along the lines of "Enjoy the game, we hope you are not a thief".

 

[fedaykin]

Well. It's nice to hear that software developers have finally realized that draconian DRM measures are not the way to

All your progress since the last checkpoint or savegame is lost, and your only options a

HOLY MOTHER OF FUCK

 

[Ausdoerrt]

People pay for pirated games O_o ? The only reason anyone would do it that I can think of is that they can't afford an Internet connection, which kinda eliminates them as game buyers.

When I was growing up, we had no internet, and pirated CDs were cheap. Ironically, some "pirated" releases were better quality than "licensed" ones. Another advantage is that if you can tolerate bad translation, a pirated release means than you don't have to wait months (sometimes years) for a game to be localized in the country.

But yes, pirated CDs, especially for games, are growing irrelevant now that more and more people who own PCs also have an internet connection of some sort. Sometimes it's still worth it to pay for someone else to DL the game for you, and package it in a user-friendly manner so that you don't have to bother with any of the DRM bullshit. Although, go 2-3 years back and it wasn't about "affording" the connection so much as about the availability of service. Not to mention that yes, a good, stable connection was out of the price range for an average person. Doesn't mean they wouldn't be able to afford games, though.

Not that a pirated release could ever feel the same as buying a shiny licensed box. It's just that sometimes, in countries outside US, it's the only way available to get your games.

 

[Sorrow]

Then they wouldn't be able to download patches for unfinished games and sometimes would be unable to activate them.

 

[Tagaziel]

Also, no, this is not really true. Piracy is huge in China and Russia because of a lack of copyright laws and enforcement, which means the market is wide open for pirated copies.

And where it isn't?

You can't just open shops selling pirated wares in most countries that have functional copyright laws. You can in China.

People pay for pirated games O_o ? The only reason anyone would do it that I can think of is that they can't afford an Internet connection, which kinda eliminates them as game buyers.

How old are you?

 

[Kilus]

Welcome to last month Kharn. Anyway this is the worse trash to ever happen to Gaming. It's just adding extra layers of potential failure with no added benefits. I wont buy a fridge that needed to be connected to the Internet to work and nor will I buy any game with a single player component that needs a Internet connect.

 

[Crni Vuk]

ah, just one more reason to spend time with real life ... and start again with hobbies like sport, girls, the usual things and such. I think in the end its a good evolution

 

[Ausdoerrt]

Then they wouldn't be able to download patches for unfinished games and sometimes would be unable to activate them.

Umm, so? It's better than not having ANY game, right? Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "not being able to get patches", I've seen very few with actual protection on them. Activation has never been a problem until SF rolled about because SURPRISE! pirated games have NOCD included.

 

[Aphyosis]

Windows.Fucking.Live.

I just want to play Bioshock and the POS sent me into the most hate filled rant i have ever spilled out. Every single time i think i forgive the program, it does something new and interesting to drive me up the fucking wall.