Dr Fallout
Centurion
Yep, because refugees equal cultural destruction and Muslim dominance.
EU referendum: Leave Vote
- Thread starter Throatpunch
- Start date
It's astonishing. For a cynical (let us say like Carlin), this must be the best day in their life. I mean the world is seemingly heading full force into a crash, but it's like the people throw a farewell party instead of actually doing something. I mean hey! If you already have to go, why not with a bang, right?
Sure, let us all hammer down on silly problems like immigration - which won't stop without the EU - regulations about pillows or what ever ... while the elephant in the room, growing nationalism and extremism is completely ignored.
I thought Europe was not so bad like the US ... but it seems even we can't escape the Trump-Effect :/.
Sure, let us all hammer down on silly problems like immigration - which won't stop without the EU - regulations about pillows or what ever ... while the elephant in the room, growing nationalism and extremism is completely ignored.
I thought Europe was not so bad like the US ... but it seems even we can't escape the Trump-Effect :/.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Nationalism is basically an excuse created when things are bad in the world. It's an outlet for rage, sadness and troubles.
But without it though, you wouldn't have games like BF1 and Wolfenstein. It's not all just bad! No nationalism, no WW1/WW2. NO WW1/WW2 no WW games!
Just imagine the awesome games people will have in 2150 after WW3! Another WW3 game? It has been over for 70 years now! Can't we finally get over it? We have to defend our self from settlers on Mars! MAKE EARTH GREAT AGIN! BUILD BIG WALL!
Ilosar
Vault Fossil
For those who keep asking for the facts about advantages and disadvantages of the UK being part of the EU (with links to sources and even using UK government figures and sources. This was taken from Economicshelp.org, which is an independent and trustworthy source):
Disadvantages of EU membership to UK include:
Evaluation of these problems
- Cost. The costs of EU membership to the UK is £15bn gross (0.06% of GDP) – or £6.883 billion net. (See UK government spending). (UKIP claim that the cost of EU membership in total amounts to £83bn gross if you include all possible costs, such as an ‘estimated’ £48bn of regulation costs – or £1,380 per head. The ONS have estimated a net contribution cost of £7.1 bn. See (actual cost of EU membership)
- Inefficient policies. A large percentage (40%) of EU spending goes on the Common Agricultural Policy. For many years this distorted agricultural markets by placing minimum prices on food. This lead to higher prices for consumers and encouraging over-supply. Reforms to CAP have reduced, but not eliminated this wastage. A big existing problem with CAP is that it has rewarded large land-owners, with little reflection of social benefit. See: Transfer of funds from poor to rich landowners (Guardian) Though the UK is guilty of rejecting limit on CAP
- Problems of the Euro. Membership of the EU doesn’t necessarily mean membership of the Euro. But, the EU has placed great emphasis on the single currency. However, it has proved to have many problems and contributed to low rates of economic growth and high unemployment across the EU. Fortunately, the UK stayed out of the Euro. (See: Problems of Euro.)
- Pressure towards austerity. Since 2008, many southern European countries have faced pressure from the EU to pursue austerity – spending cuts to meet budget deficit targets, but in the middle of a recession these austerity measures have contributed to prolonged economic stagnation. In particular, Greece was forced by its creditors to accept austerity, when some economists have argued this is counter-productive.
- Net migration. Free movement of labour has caused problems of overcrowding in some UK cities. The UK’s population is set to rise to 70 million over the next decade, partly due to immigration (of which 50% is from EU and 50% from non-EU). Immigration has helped to push up house prices and led to congestion on roads. (See: immigration and housing) The concern is that in the EU, the UK is powerless to place a limit on immigration from Eastern Europe because free movement of labour is a cornerstone of the EU. (See: Impact of immigration on UK economy)
- More bureaucracy less democracy. It is argued that the EU has created extra layers of bureaucracy whilst taking away decision making process further from local communities. For example, the British Chambers of Commerce has estimated that the annual cost to the UK of EU regulation is £7.4bn. The introduction of Qualified majority voting (QMV) mean that on many decisions votes can be taken against the public interest of a particular country.
Source: Gov.UK – though they give confusing figure of EU spending at £3bn, which is less than agreed measure, so the person who made that graph adapted figures to use £14.7bn – which is generally accepted.
- The cost of the EU is a relatively small percentage of overall UK government spending. (See: EU In perspective)
- The UK has received regional funds over the years, which has helped economic regeneration of areas like South Wales and North East..
- The CAP and other policies are in a long slow process of being reformed. If the UK stays in the EU it could, in theory, help to promote policies which work in the long-term interest of the UK and reform inefficient policies like CAP.
- An estimated 3.5 million jobs are linked to trade with Europe. Some jobs may be threatened if tariff barriers were to rise outside the EU.
- The UK is third largest recipient of inward investment in the world. Access to the Single Market is one factor in encouraging this inward investment. The investment is important for UK economic growth and jobs.
- Some EU bureaucracy has been beneficial in promoting competition, e.g. forcing mobile phone networks to limit charging when using mobiles abroad.
- UK newspapers have tended to exaggerate and even misinform readers about ‘EU rules and regulation’. This is a list of Euro myths – where UK newspapers have blamed EU regulations, but it was actually inaccurate or misplaced.
- Issues like farming and fishing and the environment are global issues which need to be tackled within a European framework, it is insufficient to have just a national policy on fishing and the environment because the issues by nature require global co-operation, e.g. solve global warming, over-rishing.
- The EU Health Insurance Card enables EU citizens to receive emergency healthcare on the same terms as the citizens of the EU country they are visiting (often free). (Euro-movement)
- By staying out the Euro, the UK has retained independence over monetary policy, fiscal policy and the exchange rate. The UK doesn’t have the same pressure to pursue austerity as countries in the Eurozone have. This shows that the UK can combine membership of the EU with flexibility over economic policy.
- Migration works both ways. Many British people have emigrated to take advantage of opportunities elsewhere in Europe. An estimated 748,010 Britons live or work in the European Union (link). However, net migration has been running at around 200,000 a year since early 2000s.
- EU migrants are net contributors to the UK Treasury. Although they cost the UK in terms of public services, they contribute relatively more in taxes. The main reason is that migrants are more likely to be of working age 20-40. Therefore, they need relatively less health care and no pensions. The UK native population is rapidly ageing – this places stress on public finances because of a greater need for health care and pensions. Without net migration, there would be a greater strain on public finances.
- The free movement of labour enables a more flexible labour market, with immigrants able to fill gaps in the UK labour market, such as nursing and plumbing. Also the additional labour increases UK productive capacity and helps increase real GDP. (see impact of rising population) The large numbers of net migration to UK in recent years, may reflect a temporary situation of relatively higher growth in UK than Europe, and may subside when (if) the Eurozone recovers.
- Problems attributed to EU migration are more due to general government policy – e.g. cuts to share of GDP spent on health care.
Thank you. That's pretty interesting.
I note that almost half the disadvantages don't even apply to the UK, since they don't use the Euro and certainly aren't a poor enough economy that austerity can be thrust upon them, and really the cost of UE membership is a pittance compared to the massive job and trade benefits it offers.
So really, the more I read about this, the more I find it a bad move. The advantages of Brexit seem token at best, more symbolic than anything, and the potential disadvantages in the medum-long term seem fairly high. Political instability in the country, Scotland and Northern Ireland having second thoughts, public relations hit with the other countries of the EU, economic uncertainty (for a time at least), loss of easy trade and immigrant labor which are important economical boosts in any country, all to give the middle finger to a few bureaucrats in Brussels?
We'll see what the future holds. I doubt this is going to be a disaster for Britain or anything, but I really fail to see any important advantage from where I stand.
Gonzalez
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
They cannot force you, but they are already urging you to.
EU governments pile pressure on UK to leave as soon as possible
Brexit: EU leaders demand quick UK exit as economic fallout grows
Going back and forth with it is only going to annoy the whole of the EU. Again, this only shows how irresponsible UK voters are, saying things like "I didn't actually think my vote would count" It would be much less embarrasing that Cameron did not respect the referendum on count of voters being "unable to make responsible decisions concerning the nation" and refuse to activate article 50 rather than going for another vote.
Imagine if everyone did this with presidential ellections and such, after a Trump victory a lot of americans signing a petition for a second ellection on grounds of "I voted Trump only as a joke, I didn't actually expected he would win".
Throatpunch
Banned
Merkel just told them to STFU, and she has the balance of power so we can be as slow as we want.
Gonzalez
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
I bet the French really love that, the Germans telling them to STFU. No offense, since this is probably important for your country, but watching all of this from the outside it looks like it's turning more and more into a comedy as each day passes, and a stereotypical one at that.
Oh, the memes will be unavoidable....
Oh, the memes will be unavoidable....
Well, we are so proud about democracy, choices and votes. Now ... I hate to say it ... but we have to respect it now.
What hurts to watch, is simply the fact that this vote was more an emotional one. I hope that this is a wakeup call for some so we see more done against populism.
What hurts to watch, is simply the fact that this vote was more an emotional one. I hope that this is a wakeup call for some so we see more done against populism.
Gonzalez
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Either they do or they are going to have to second guess every single ellection and/or referendum thye ever have. It is rather ridiculous really. "Oh, I voted as a joke, I didn't take it seriously", well, perhaps this will teach you.
I guess that explains why certain decisions need a minimum of like 75% to be changed. Hur durrrr! Human rights?! IT HELPS IMMIGRANTS! REFRENDRUUUM! NOW! >(
valcik
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
I blame Juncker, that old moldy fart, with his „not an amicable divorce” attitude.
Why not amicable FFS? UK was a respectable member of EU for a couple of decades, they are still one of the biggest european markets, with a lot of european immigrants working in their cities. I get that these old farts in European Comission can't stomach brexit easily, taking it personally, or trying to make the departure an exemplar and painful process in order to terrify other EU members contemplating to leave EU as well. What a stupid behavior from high EU grade statesmen.
Why not amicable FFS? UK was a respectable member of EU for a couple of decades, they are still one of the biggest european markets, with a lot of european immigrants working in their cities. I get that these old farts in European Comission can't stomach brexit easily, taking it personally, or trying to make the departure an exemplar and painful process in order to terrify other EU members contemplating to leave EU as well. What a stupid behavior from high EU grade statesmen.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36629324
Does this hold any merit?
I don't know much about internal workings of UK.
Does this hold any merit?
I don't know much about internal workings of UK.
Well, you have to keep in mind that some of them are dealing with idiots like Petry and Nigel who have spend quite some time in the EU parliament, irritating, agitating and throwing around emotional bullshit. I would be pretty annoyed too. And probably also demand that they now live up their promises and get their shit together, if they think the EU is the cause for all their issues.
valcik
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Smart man should ask himself what's the reason his party started breaking up. Instead of childish remarks at UK, Juncker should have presented his restructure plans already!
Gonzalez
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
What I wonder is how many of the petitionists actually voted to leave the EU and if most of them are not actualy remain in the EU voters. What I mean is, how much people actually bregret their vote?
Also, this speaks volumes of how people who vote out of protest do not realize the consequences of their actions. I must admit than in my country, the current president, who won similarly by a 51% vs 49%, most of his votes came from people who voted againt the loosing party rather than for the winning one, because of several complains they had, not realizing what the consequences of their votes were.
As it is the new president now has more negative image than positive image in only six months of office, and a lot of voters are disillusioned/regreatful of having voted for him, or rather against the other party that had been governing for the last twelve years.
So yeah, in that perspective I guess I can really relate to the British voters, specially those who voted against the Brexit in the first place, knowing what was going to happen, while a great deal of voters reamined oblivious to the consequences and voted irresponsibly.
Also, this speaks volumes of how people who vote out of protest do not realize the consequences of their actions. I must admit than in my country, the current president, who won similarly by a 51% vs 49%, most of his votes came from people who voted againt the loosing party rather than for the winning one, because of several complains they had, not realizing what the consequences of their votes were.
As it is the new president now has more negative image than positive image in only six months of office, and a lot of voters are disillusioned/regreatful of having voted for him, or rather against the other party that had been governing for the last twelve years.
So yeah, in that perspective I guess I can really relate to the British voters, specially those who voted against the Brexit in the first place, knowing what was going to happen, while a great deal of voters reamined oblivious to the consequences and voted irresponsibly.
Throatpunch
Banned
The problem is a lot of people thought it was a protest vote where they would sort of rebel a bit against the established order, however this isn't some minor local election, its the future of the UK and too many people thought they were protesting, and it ended up becoming a wave. The second thing is a lot of Leave voters are just plain stupid. So now we are getting hundreds of thousands of bregretters apologising for fucking things up for everyone else, and other hundreds of thousands of Brexit thickos gloating, while the economy tanks and the government is in chaos.
One word: farce
Somtimes I am curious if that is how some or many voters of the Nazi party felt once the Nazis have been in power, like damn ... why did I vote for them? Don't get me wrong! It's not as bad like the Nazis. I am just thinking. Because to be honest, what happend with the Brexit, was something that you can also blame on the current establishment. There is a reason why people feel alienated by their own parties. Why labors don't feel represented by the labor parties anymore, for example. Cameron ruled them for 6 years, and he and his party could not manage to prevent this. Where have they been all this time?
Ilosar
Vault Fossil
Well the Nazis were not voted into power. They were perhaps in a slow-ish decline come 1933 actually, but then Hindenburg's clique decided they had to nominate Hitler chancellor, thiking they could control him. Rest is history.
Anyway, I think too many Britons thought this was basically a vote of confidence on the current government. Which it wasn't, leaving the EU is a more important decision than changing who's the PM. But now people have to live with it. I doubt there will be a second referendum, what's done is done, extending it now would be just farcical. Britain has to own up to their decision, else they will become a laughting stock.
Anyway, I think too many Britons thought this was basically a vote of confidence on the current government. Which it wasn't, leaving the EU is a more important decision than changing who's the PM. But now people have to live with it. I doubt there will be a second referendum, what's done is done, extending it now would be just farcical. Britain has to own up to their decision, else they will become a laughting stock.