EU referendum: Leave Vote

SuAside said:
Farage just stood before EU parliament, and after telling everyone they had not done an honest job in their entire life, demands that the EU gives the UK tariff free import/export rights to the EU after brexit?

https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/747730290294980608

I don't think that's how it works, Mr Farage.
(though he clearly enjoys trolling the shit out of everyone, while burning all these bridges)
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The guy, was fighting the EU as member of it's parliament for 17 years.
That guy is determined. You have to give him that ...
 
Yeah, it does seem like the talking heads of Brexit are jumping off the ship. First Johnson refused to run for PM, then Farrage resigns from his own party.

It's possible they realized it was a big mistake from which they couldn't capitalize politically. Aeems like every UK politician responsible for the whole mess is now leaving and letting someone else deal with the fallout. Which is a giant dick move if you ask me. Much as I disliked him, I thought Farrage had a bit of a spine, but it seems not.
 
Ilosar said:
First Johnson refused to run for PM, then Farrage resigns from his own party.
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There is a simple reason for that: Both there campaigns were entirely reliant on Britain being in the EU

Boris Johnson as the ex-mayor of london obviously knew that Britain needed the EU, he just supported a cause that he knew would never suceed in order to get the love and praise of working class brits. I'm guessing he wanted it to fail, so he could gain popularity, while simultaneously governing over Britain when it was in the EU. He knew very well that shit would happen if we left, and didn't want to be the figurehead of a failing nation.

Nigel Farrage's campaign relied on being in the EU, since he had very little knowledge of politics. Fighting the EU means that he has a go-to excuse for everything despite actually knowing little. Now that he has nothing to fight against, he can no longer keep up the charade.
 
As sad as this is for the normal Uk citizens, but it is nice to see how realitiy is kicking slowly in. Hopefully this will shut up some of the right wing populists.

MutantScalper said:
Oh, give me a job with the salary, benefits and pension of a MEP in the EU parliament and where the job is just to troll (badly) at everyone around you.
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I know, right?! But this is the big man everyone trusted to make things right ... urgh. Not that it really matters, as I doubt this would be much of a problem for Nigel, but when the UK really gets out of the EU, they should totally cut ANY benefits Nigel got from the EU. Like pensions. I mean fair is fair, right?
 
This is kind of hilarious. The Brexit leaders are either resigning or refusing to actually do anything now that the vote has passed.

It looks like they were just using buzzwords like "tyranny" and "invasion" to drum up support for themselves but never actually wanted or expected the vote to pass.

Also some articles are claiming over 1 million voters "regret" their decision to vote "leave." Add this to the part where they were shown to be Googling "What is the EU?" hours after the vote and you get an idea of what the average voter is really like lol. I believe the polite term that political analysts use is "low information voters."
 
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Meanwhile, German media as Die Zeit, which is highbrow, liberal/centrist, more than half a century old newspaper, started recognizing European democracy drifting and fading away:
http://www.zeit.de/politik/2016-06/brexit-eu-reform-kritik-sicherheit-ttip

Whilst some close-minded individuals keep repeating „Hurr durr right wing populist agenda!” mantra without noticing how their masters in Brussels are abandoning former European ideals in attempt to get more political power in their hands. :roll:
 
valcik said:
Meanwhile, German media as Die Zeit, which is highbrow, liberal/centrist, more than half a century old newspaper, started recognizing European democracy drifting and fading away:
http://www.zeit.de/politik/2016-06/brexit-eu-reform-kritik-sicherheit-ttip

Whilst some close-minded individuals keep repeating „Hurr durr right wing populist agenda!” mantra without noticing how their masters in Brussels are abandoning former European ideals in attempt to get more political power in their hands. :roll:
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You keep repeating this Eu-is-to-blame like a mantra as well. Look. No one here argues that the issues and problems aren't real. We all see them. We all agree that they are there. We all agree that the EU needs reforms, badly. We all agree that there is a lot of room for improvements. But even if we disposed of the EU tomorrow, where do you think all those masters in Brussel will go? Back to their nations. If you want to change something, than you won't do it by just saying Brussel ist an allem Schuld! That has never worked. It's our own politicans. Our own parliaments. Or our parties. Brussel is just a representation of home made issues.

We can take the last 25 years as example, close the EU and say, we did a damn fine job! We solved ALL our problems at once! And ignore the fact that it could only happen because of the individual members of the EU actually allowed it to happen. In other words, the source of those problems still exist.
 
I wasn't refering to this topic in particular.
*Edit
Maybe I got you wrong, but I have the feeling that you think we would be much better of without the EU, or at least only keeping a trade union or something similar. Albeit, if we strip the EU of ALL it's political powers, we could as well close it down completely. That's the problems with clocks. You can only go forward, not backwards. If we make those kind of changes, we will split the EU in two, between those nations that want to keep the political power, most probably Germany and France, and those nations that want to get back to the 1950s. But we made those decisions in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s now - in we I mean the nations we belong to. The EU is now what it is. And there is no chance that we will get back a trade union without a parliament or the necessary bureaucracy - as much as we might hate it. You could as well ask that the US goes back to independed states. In that sense the EU is just the extension of what our governments are. So when you blame the EU, you also blame at the same time its member states, because the EU as whole can't be better or worse than it's member states.

With the words of Georg Schramm, don't blame Merkel for all the shit that happens in your nation. Blame your own politicans. Because at the end of the day, they are all the same.



If people want to blame someone, they should start with their own governments.

Anyway.
 
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Crni Vuk said:
You keep repeating this Eu-is-to-blame like a mantra as well. Look. No one here argues that the issues and problems aren't real. We all see them. We all agree that they are there. We all agree that the EU needs reforms, badly. We all agree that there is a lot of room for improvements. But even if we disposed of the EU tomorrow, where do you think all those masters in Brussel will go? Back to their nations. If you want to change something, than you won't do it by just saying Brussel ist an allem Schuld! That has never worked. It's our own politicans. Our own parliaments. Or our parties. Brussel is just a representation of home made issues.

We can take the last 25 years as example, close the EU and say, we did a damn fine job! We solved ALL our problems at once! And ignore the fact that it could only happen because of the individual members of the EU actually allowed it to happen. In other words, the source of those problems still exist.
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Yeah, it's like saying the problem with the UN is the UN itself. Newsflash; the real power in the UN is the member nations, and especially the Security Council. Same way as the real power in the EU is the member nations, especially the wealthy ones like France and Germany. The EU in and of itself is a powerless collection of bureaucrats with little political, and no economical clout.

Getting rid of the EU just means you relocate the problem closer to home. If someone sees it as a victory, more power to them, but it seems a bit like wasted efforts to me.

Anyhow. The British made their cake, now they have to eat it. It's probably not going to taste anywhere near as good as they hoped it does, but this time they will have to find another scapegoat and hopefully stop pretending their own shit doesn't stink. Meanwhile Farrage, like the professional troll he is, kicked the hornet's nest and laughs as other people will get stung instead of him.

The situation is both funny and sad.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Maybe I got you wrong ..
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Yes you did. I'm not going to explain anything to you again though, you are time sink.

Ilosar said:
Same way as the real power in the EU is the member nations, especially the wealthy ones like France and Germany. The EU in and of itself is a powerless collection of bureaucrats with little political, and no economical clout.
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Juncker is trying to move more legislative power and transform the European Commission into proper European government eventually, which means national states completely deprived of the rest of any political power still left there. This is pretty accurate analysis from German investigative newspaper Der Spiegel:

http://www.spiegel.de/international...gle-between-merkel-and-juncker-a-1100852.html
 
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valcik said:
Juncker is trying to move more legislative power and transform the European Commission into proper European government eventually, which means national states completely deprived of the rest of any political power still left there. This is pretty accurate analysis from German investigative newspaper Der Spiegel:

http://www.spiegel.de/international...gle-between-merkel-and-juncker-a-1100852.html
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And how's that going to work for him? If Merkel says jump, half the member states ask how high. France might be more encouraged by a stronger Europe, if only because of Hollande, but Juncker has as much power as the member states are willing to hand him. The article itselfs says that events do not favor Juncker's proposals. The leader of the European states aren't stupid, they know they have the bigger end of the stick by far, and that brexit or no brexit too many people are now sceptic of Europe to start flying into Brussels's loving arms.

Thus, my statement that the latter are mostly powerless remains true from my perspective in the foreseeable future. People may see Juncker as a boogeyman all they want, his actual influence on internal policies isn't very big. Member states still call the shots, and will continue to do so since, well, they're the ones with the power, and Europe exists as long as they want to support it, not the other way around. You're vastly overestimating the power of the European entities. Pretty much all the policies they implement are done with the consent, explicit or implicit, of the member states.
 
Ilosar said:
The article itselfs says that events do not favor Juncker's proposals. The leader of the European states aren't stupid, they know they have the bigger end of the stick by far, and that brexit or no brexit too many people are now sceptic of Europe to start flying into Brussels's loving arms.
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You hit the nail on the head, that's the point. If Juncker won't stop his attempts on power grab, i.e. to centralize more legislative power in Brussels and turn European Commission into regular European government, along with his attempt to force € upon all member states resisting so far, this mess might result in disintegration of EU in no time. That's what I had explained to Crni in other thread, that's the main reason why Britons gave up, and also that's how I understand the article you're referring to:
It's the age-old European battle over who possesses the greatest amount of democratic legitimacy -- and for the moment it doesn't look like momentum is in favor of Juncker's Commission and his partner Schulz's European Parliament.
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