Fallout 1+2+3+4 = Perfection?

[zegh8578]

I wouldn't get punished for choosing Energy Weapons at the start because you can find a laser pistol pretty early on

Tagging energy weapons is a choice, you could also have tagged "gambling" and struggled even more to find good use for it.

Tagging energy weapons is something that pays off later. You must wait for it, like desert after dinner! Me, having started with the old games, and moved to the new, I react the opposite way you do

It has a lot to do with expectation - I expect laser weaponry to be almost non-existent, so rare it borders legendary. During my typical FO1-2 play, I will give only a few points to Energy Weapons, now and then, as I progress - and eventually I'll "tag" it with a perk later on, significantly boosting it for when I finally get my hands on one of these epic, technological marvels.

My first experience with FO3, and the laser-pistols pretty much dropping in your lap right away, I felt ripped off! To me - that was the flaw, the weakness. You had different expectations, so you see a different flaw.

 

[generalissimofurioso]

Lasers always slotted into that weird space in the weapon progression.

Rarer than bullets, but not as strong as plasma weapons.

Plus metal armor did a good job at dissipating laser damage.

I miss damage types.

 

[frajaq]

Hey, cool it. Let's not attack him for disliking it.

Why do you dislike it?

1) The NPC models being all kinda the same was annoying to find out which one was a quest giver or just a random civilian
2) Felt like some skills were superfluous/useless (why is Doctor/First Aid and Sneak/Steal separate?) I tagged Energy Weapons/Science/Repair since I wanted to play a smarty-guy but these were barely used? Repair I knew it was used for the water pump in that ghoul town but dunno if Science was ever used.
3) Didn't like the turn based combat so much and it was easy to abuse (if a bit too reliant on RNG)
4) Some quests were just confusing and maybe even bugged? (Like the bust the skulz gang and the clean the raiders out of the farmer's house), granted I liked a few (like Butch's quest to find out who was attacking the caravans that I had to ask around a lot).
5) The only interesting town was Shady Sands because it is so different from the others. (the Gun Runners fortress was cool too)
6) Companion AI was retarded, while I know that F3's ones aren't too bright at least they never accidentally killed me or my dog
7) Getting into the Brotherhood and Acquiring the Power Armor was piss easy
8) edit: Oh yeah also it's not interesting to explore

The game is also fucking ugly but I give that a pass because its old so whatever, all in all an alright kinda of game, not worth all the hype surrounding it

 

[Dr Fallout]

Cool! I'm busy playing New Vegas, so I'll let the others argue this one out. I disagree with most, but the other members can argue far better then me.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Hey, cool it. Let's not attack him for disliking it.

Why do you dislike it?

1) The NPC models being all kinda the same was annoying to find out which one was a quest giver or just a random civilian
2) Felt like some skills were superfluous/useless (why is Doctor/First Aid and Sneak/Steal separate?) I tagged Energy Weapons/Science/Repair since I wanted to play a smarty-guy but these were barely used? Repair I knew it was used for the water pump in that ghoul town but dunno if Science was ever used.
3) Didn't like the turn based combat so much and it was easy to abuse (if a bit too reliant on RNG)
4) Some quests were just confusing and maybe even bugged? (Like the bust the skulz gang and the clean the raiders out of the farmer's house), granted I liked a few (like Butch's quest to find out who was attacking the caravans that I had to ask around a lot).
5) The only interesting town was Shady Sands because it is so different from the others. (the Gun Runners fortress was cool too)
6) Companion AI was retarded, while I know that F3's ones aren't too bright at least they never accidentally killed me or my dog
7) Getting into the Brotherhood and Acquiring the Power Armor was piss easy
8) edit: Oh yeah also it's not interesting to explore

The game is also fucking ugly but I give that a pass because its old so whatever, all in all an alright kinda of game, not worth all the hype surrounding it

Its like what you just said was in Chinese.

你一定是他妈的开玩笑！?

 

[Dr Fallout]

Hey, cool it. Let's not attack him for disliking it.

Why do you dislike it?

1) The NPC models being all kinda the same was annoying to find out which one was a quest giver or just a random civilian
2) Felt like some skills were superfluous/useless (why is Doctor/First Aid and Sneak/Steal separate?) I tagged Energy Weapons/Science/Repair since I wanted to play a smarty-guy but these were barely used? Repair I knew it was used for the water pump in that ghoul town but dunno if Science was ever used.
3) Didn't like the turn based combat so much and it was easy to abuse (if a bit too reliant on RNG)
4) Some quests were just confusing and maybe even bugged? (Like the bust the skulz gang and the clean the raiders out of the farmer's house), granted I liked a few (like Butch's quest to find out who was attacking the caravans that I had to ask around a lot).
5) The only interesting town was Shady Sands because it is so different from the others. (the Gun Runners fortress was cool too)
6) Companion AI was retarded, while I know that F3's ones aren't too bright at least they never accidentally killed me or my dog
7) Getting into the Brotherhood and Acquiring the Power Armor was piss easy
8) edit: Oh yeah also it's not interesting to explore

The game is also fucking ugly but I give that a pass because its old so whatever, all in all an alright kinda of game, not worth all the hype surrounding it

Okay let's begin!

1. That could be a problem, but that's where the hovering mouse and text box came in! So this one is either laziness or not knowing how to!
2. That's also in Fallout 3 a lot, but what you want is Fallout 2. Sure some skills are useless but far less, and even survival is pretty good in FO2. The first Fallout was still teething, being the first game EVER to have SPECIAL, God rest her soul.
3. That's a personal preference and like me saying I didn't like Fallout 3's/New Vegas's combat much because it was boring and too easy, involving standing in one place and trading shots while gulping down stim packs.
4. Patches my boy, patches! And I'm sorry if the game relied on your attention and wits, not on a magical arrow pointing the way to everything. Nice to know you liked that quest!
5. Again preference, I loved all the places, except Adytum which felt a bit rushed. The Hub was nice to explore and the Brotherhood Bunker blew me away.
6. The game wasn't supposed to have companions, hence they were handled badly. But I liked it personally, and from it came the legendary Ian, who would shoot you in the back.
7. Depending on the skill level of your character it was! May I ask how did you aquire it? Just saying in Fallout 3 it's even easier. Just get power armour training and kill a BOS member, which is piss easy even at level one.
8. I loved exploring, but it wasn't the random loot cave type of exploration, more like finding settlements and doing things in them. You know sensible stuff, because not every inch of wasteland is going to have a box of noodles.

 

[GlowHound]

As for the ugly complaint, I'd have to ask if you had a high-res patch when you played. The art is good, but it's going to be pixelated as shit on a modern monitor. Mash's HR patches are essential at this point.

 

[DarkCorp]

1. xxxx
x
xxxx

In the above diagram, you have a general idea who is important and who's just a minion. Often times, you can just move the pointer above a person and the flavor text would give you a hint. If that's asking too much of you then, I don't know what to say.

2. Explained already.

3. You mean hiding behind a corner and bursting? Hows that different from cover mechanics where you, hide behind cover, and burst any idiot stupid enough to run at you.

4. Explained.

5. Plenty of interesting towns. The Hub was host to a lot of quest from Loxley, to Decker, to Harold, the black market, etc. You had the BoS, Gunrunners, Adytum and its conspiracy/murderous guards, the friggin GLOW, etc.

6. Already explained but I will add a bit. The originals were DIFFICULT. F3 was in the era of easy to heal companions and if I believe, no firendly fire at all. We might hate Ian but it sure made certain playthroughs more challenging if one decided to keepem around.

7. Power armor is piss easy if you CHOOSE to go and cheat and read the guides. I hacked the BoS door, with electronic lockpickes, but that was me fucking around. Doing it the normal/GLOW way was hard as fuck. Those kidnappers were still assholes.

8. Its not interesting to explore, to YOU. But your annoyance to turn based combat, shitty graphics, and combined with your general dislike for locations in general, I understand why you think the way you do.

As I have said before, if one doesn't give a rats ass about the way the originals were done, then no amount of convincing will work. You don't like the way the classics were. You prefer a Oblivion with guns/CoD, hybrid shooter with shitty ass dialogue and choice and consequence, among others. We don't like it.

 

[Walpknut]

I think is actually a point in favor for the originals that there is a way to get Power Armor early one if your build allows for it, instead of Slapping a forced Story Event "Power Armor trainning" perk to mask the fact that you find Power Armor everywhere on Fallout 3 where your build wouldn't really matter because none of the Support skills had any use beyond getting a small XP bonus on a die roll.

 

[Dr Fallout]

There is no such thing as perfection. Everything has flaws, even the 'good' games. it is just a matter of not expecting them to be perfect.

Agreed, even FO1/FO2 had flaws.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

Morrowind... sure the gameplay was shit and the graphics bad but the world... so fucking detailed it made me cry...

I played through Morrowind with the MGSO 3.0 Graphics and Sounds Overhaul mod and it made it look better than oblivion and skyrim in a lot of ways. After playing it with that mod, Skyrim feels like a kids game.

 

[Gizmojunk]

I think that the series starts out superb, but peters off in the end.

 

[Oppen]

Hard to die a lot when you can get Power Armor so easy in F1 and the combat is so easy to abuse in both games

What would the "easy" way to obtain the PA in Fallout 1? AFAIR, the only ones with access to it are the BoS, and I wouldn't call The Glow an easy place to be in.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Hard to die a lot when you can get Power Armor so easy in F1 and the combat is so easy to abuse in both games

What would the "easy" way to obtain the PA in Fallout 1? AFAIR, the only ones with access to it are the BoS, and I wouldn't call The Glow an easy place to be in.

Reparing it. No other way.

 

[Hassknecht]

Hard to die a lot when you can get Power Armor so easy in F1 and the combat is so easy to abuse in both games

What would the "easy" way to obtain the PA in Fallout 1? AFAIR, the only ones with access to it are the BoS, and I wouldn't call The Glow an easy place to be in.

Reparing it. No other way.

You can also rescue the Initiate at the Hub. But then you need to kill the rough guards, and they're quite tough for lower level players. Especially the one with the combat shotgun can easily ruin your day. I guess it can be done with grenades, care, and some tactics if you don't use combat exploits. And you still need to get through the Glow, which isn't much of a problem. A few RadX and a rope and you're done, the mutant encounters on the way can be easily outrun, I think.
If you know what you're doing you can easily get the PA by early mid-game, I think. Put everything into sneak or speech and repair, get some RadX and head straight for the Glow. Then to Lost Hills, either talk Michael into giving you the parts or steal them from Rhombus, go to Kyle and repair the armor, done.
Could be done pretty damn fast, I think.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Hard to die a lot when you can get Power Armor so easy in F1 and the combat is so easy to abuse in both games

What would the "easy" way to obtain the PA in Fallout 1? AFAIR, the only ones with access to it are the BoS, and I wouldn't call The Glow an easy place to be in.

Reparing it. No other way.

You can also rescue the Initiate at the Hub. But then you need to kill the rough guards, and they're quite tough for lower level players. Especially the one with the combat shotgun can easily ruin your day. I guess it can be done with grenades, care, and some tactics if you don't use combat exploits. And you still need to get through the Glow, which isn't much of a problem. A few RadX and a rope and you're done, the mutant encounters on the way can be easily outrun, I think.
If you know what you're doing you can easily get the PA by early mid-game, I think. Put everything into sneak or speech and repair, get some RadX and head straight for the Glow. Then to Lost Hills, either talk Michael into giving you the parts or steal them from Rhombus, go to Kyle and repair the armor, done.
Could be done pretty damn fast, I think.

Yes it could, but repair beats it all. And a bit of speech goes a long way as well.

 

[RAKTHEUNDEAD]

Hey, cool it. Let's not attack him for disliking it.

Why do you dislike it?

1) The NPC models being all kinda the same was annoying to find out which one was a quest giver or just a random civilian
2) Felt like some skills were superfluous/useless (why is Doctor/First Aid and Sneak/Steal separate?) I tagged Energy Weapons/Science/Repair since I wanted to play a smarty-guy but these were barely used? Repair I knew it was used for the water pump in that ghoul town but dunno if Science was ever used.
3) Didn't like the turn based combat so much and it was easy to abuse (if a bit too reliant on RNG)
4) Some quests were just confusing and maybe even bugged? (Like the bust the skulz gang and the clean the raiders out of the farmer's house), granted I liked a few (like Butch's quest to find out who was attacking the caravans that I had to ask around a lot).
5) The only interesting town was Shady Sands because it is so different from the others. (the Gun Runners fortress was cool too)
6) Companion AI was retarded, while I know that F3's ones aren't too bright at least they never accidentally killed me or my dog
7) Getting into the Brotherhood and Acquiring the Power Armor was piss easy
8) edit: Oh yeah also it's not interesting to explore

The game is also fucking ugly but I give that a pass because its old so whatever, all in all an alright kinda of game, not worth all the hype surrounding it

Okay let's begin!

1. That could be a problem, but that's where the hovering mouse and text box came in! So this one is either laziness or not knowing how to!
2. That's also in Fallout 3 a lot, but what you want is Fallout 2. Sure some skills are useless but far less, and even survival is pretty good in FO2. The first Fallout was still teething, being the first game EVER to have SPECIAL, God rest her soul.
3. That's a personal preference and like me saying I didn't like Fallout 3's/New Vegas's combat much because it was boring and too easy, involving standing in one place and trading shots while gulping down stim packs.
4. Patches my boy, patches! And I'm sorry if the game relied on your attention and wits, not on a magical arrow pointing the way to everything. Nice to know you liked that quest!
5. Again preference, I loved all the places, except Adytum which felt a bit rushed. The Hub was nice to explore and the Brotherhood Bunker blew me away.
6. The game wasn't supposed to have companions, hence they were handled badly. But I liked it personally, and from it came the legendary Ian, who would shoot you in the back.
7. Depending on the skill level of your character it was! May I ask how did you aquire it? Just saying in Fallout 3 it's even easier. Just get power armour training and kill a BOS member, which is piss easy even at level one.
8. I loved exploring, but it wasn't the random loot cave type of exploration, more like finding settlements and doing things in them. You know sensible stuff, because not every inch of wasteland is going to have a box of noodles.

Furthermore, with reference to Question 2, I believe that the fact that there are apparently superfluous skills (such as Doctor/First Aid) is a holdover from Fallout's roots in the GURPS system. GURPS is an incredibly granular game, even by comparison to other contemporary PnP RPGs, with possibilities for every genre from medieval fantasy to science fiction to modern warfare to Neolithic man and more besides. Consequently, there are several skills with a lot of crossover; for instance, Physician and First Aid or the variety of Guns/Melee Weapons skills. The difference in GURPS is that these skills are related to each other in such a way that increasing one of these skills can make it less expensive (or at least provide a better default skill) in other skills of the same category. This detail never made it into Fallout, therefore certain skills do seem superfluous since you have to put points into both skills if you want them both to be effective.

 

[farchettiensis]

Hmmm, I stumbled upon that article myself yesterday, when I googled NMA, out of sheer laziness to type the website's address (I guess this doesn't make any sense, but anyways). Following the newly discovered thread, I also found myself reading a reddit 'article' (more like a mad F4 fanboy talking about mean people at NMA) and a gamefaq post.

Out of the three, Kotaku was by far the only one worth reading, and that made any sense at all. The other two appeared to be outbursts about NMA being a community of 'haters' of Bethesda, about how it 'raped' the franchise, about its incessant whining on the shallowness of Fallout 3 and Fallout 4... how can they do this, these monsters, these games are super, marvelous pieces of art, hardcore RPGs, 'best thing I've played, sold millions, lulz, screw you haters', when 'professional reviewers' considered these to be perfections... things in that line.

Apparently, being a 'hater' or a 'whiner' means you are not a moronic, uncritical sheep who accepts, passing no judgments, whatever is thrown on you, because you're 'open minded', not stuck to nostalgia and the past. Their very inability to perceive that not all comes down to 'liking' or not (too much Zuckenberg, huh?), but actually thinking about the games - low attention span kiddies seem to find this outrageous: 'why u no like it, it's so awesome, you can't contest it, Godd Howard is a genioius, lol'. Actually trying to evaluate objective aspects of the franchise, rather than putting forward insipid and complacent reviews, as most 'professional reviewers' seem to do, well, that's a sin.

Being a researcher in real life, I've become accustomed to dealing with parameters for comparison, when dealing with things such as an index. If you've never played a game like Fallout, then you're most likely going to find Fallout 3 and Skyrim, all other things being held constant, to be fantastic games (if you're into that sort of thing). That's nothing wrong with that, it's just a matter of the right criteria and actual serious comparison. So, it's not about nostalgia or being 'stuck' to a certain way of playing games - it's just that the franchise has been displaying a really evident pattern of lowering its standards, regardless of some still impressive aspects... .

Well, to answer OP's question on perfect Fallout game: F1, F2 + New Vegas on a modern scale, with actual background, meaningful characters, and player agency. Oh, and RPG elements, since Bethesda took that out of the formula on F4. I absolutely loved factions on NV. The possibilities to improve this system, make it more plausible, meaningful, working on factions history and relations among themselves - it's just endless! Fallout 4's factions were really pathetic.

I try to picture how Darth Howard Sidious, and his Sith cult, came up with F4's factions: they shoot, so let's call them The Shooters. They are evil, nasty, wander the wastelands harassing everyone. Applause follows, fanboys scream as they contort, and professional reviewers say they have gone too far this time: it's serious RPG.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

There is no such thing as perfection. Everything has flaws, even the 'good' games. it is just a matter of not expecting them to be perfect.

Agreed, even FO1/FO2 had flaws.

See, this is how people on the outside see NMA.
If you guys criticise Fallout 3 and 4, you're obviously BETHESDA HATERS, who wallow in anger and pity.
If you guys criticise Fallout 1, 2 or New Vegas, you're HYPOCRITES because LOOK YOU DON'T EVEN LIKE YOUR OWN SERIES.
The common pattern nowadays is, if you like something, you do not point out its flaws more than once. NMA points out the flaws of everything in every game, and is therefore seen as the most hateful gaming community ever.

I like a lot of things about action-styled games that don't require a lot of thinking (I enjoy things like Battlefield and Uncharted, yes).
But whenever I stroll pass someone's post in NMA about how they're mostly all simplified and casual garbage, I either hit back with a solid yet polite argument, otherwise I move on, revelling in the fact that we simply have different tastes.
NO, I'm not more stupid for liking casual action stuff. NO, they're not nerdy and nitpicking for liking games with more thought put in them. DIFFERENT TASTES.

So most people here are passionate about their love of old Fallout games. They might tell you why your favourite game is bad. If you don't like their opinion, tell them why. If you REALLY don't like their opinion, you could just move on. You can troll them out of their own site, but there's always going to be someone somewhere in the world who doesn't agree with you. And that's okay. That's what people need to learn. That they can like different stuff, and THAT'S OKAY.

 

[Dr Fallout]

There is no such thing as perfection. Everything has flaws, even the 'good' games. it is just a matter of not expecting them to be perfect.

Agreed, even FO1/FO2 had flaws.

See, this is how people on the outside see NMA.
If you guys criticise Fallout 3 and 4, you're obviously BETHESDA HATERS, who wallow in anger and pity.
If you guys criticise Fallout 1, 2 or New Vegas, you're HYPOCRITES because LOOK YOU DON'T EVEN LIKE YOUR OWN SERIES.
The common pattern nowadays is, if you like something, you do not point out its flaws more than once. NMA points out the flaws of everything in every game, and is therefore seen as the most hateful gaming community ever.

I like a lot of things about action-styled games that don't require a lot of thinking (I enjoy things like Battlefield and Uncharted, yes).
But whenever I stroll pass someone's post in NMA about how they're mostly all simplified and casual garbage, I either hit back with a solid yet polite argument, otherwise I move on, revelling in the fact that we simply have different tastes.
NO, I'm not more stupid for liking casual action stuff. NO, they're not nerdy and nitpicking for liking games with more thought put in them. DIFFERENT TASTES.

So most people here are passionate about their love of old Fallout games. They might tell you why your favourite game is bad. If you don't like their opinion, tell them why. If you REALLY don't like their opinion, you could just move on. You can troll them out of their own site, but there's always going to be someone somewhere in the world who doesn't agree with you. And that's okay. That's what people need to learn. That they can like different stuff, and THAT'S OKAY.

Nay sayers. We need more nay sayers!