Fallout 2 Restoration Project 1.2 (Unofficial FO2 Expansion)

[DGT]

I guess you missed the part where killap said that the bags are buggy. If it was as simple to fix as you seem to think, then I feel certain someone (like, for example, killap) would have fixed them already. Since their issues are a constant in F1 and F2, it seems like a problem inherent within the bag, not just some scripting error. There's always Nirran's path, where you do something and release it compatible with the RP. He's released some interesting-looking stuff that way -- not that I've tried any of it yet.

 

[rogerg2]

I do not recall, but does food really weigh that much? I do not remember if there is really a weight on food anyways. So that would put that theory to rest quickly.

 

[Darek]

Hm, I didn't know there was so many unused voice files for Sulik. Unfortunately most of them seems to be unusable,
but maybe these could be used?

{263}{slk16a}{This good place. Maybe no one try to kill us for a change.}
{264}{slk16b}{Grandfather Bone say this good place.}

{267}{slk17a}{Bad spirits lurk here. We need to walk on.}
{268}{slk17b}{Grampy Bone say we should leave here.}

{270}{slk18a}{We and I've been in bad places before. This worse.}
{271}{slk18b}{Grampy Bone say this one bad place. If he talk, you and we need to listen.}

Don't know what this could be for, maybe for random encounters?

{480}{slk27na}{You must be a bridge between sides.}
{482}{slk27nb}{Quiet that which is under the water or the salvation of your tribe will also go under.}
{483}{slk27nc}{That which pushes the great steel tree into the sky must go to cradle the tribe.}
{484}{slk27nd}{Your people are worth more than the dark gold. Carry them with no less care.}

I wonder if this is not for the tanker map? It's obvious it's about that anyway. The tanker, sub and oil rig...

{965}{slk84a}{We and I think your little head be doing all the thinking.}
{966}{slk84b}{You spend too much time laying down on job.}

You gotta put this in.

About those Navarro - Vault 15 lines.

I agree that the lines for vault 15 don't seem to fit.
"Talons" sounds like vertibirds and "small death will follow you" could be the deathclaw in Navarro, but "An empty shell rests below those that rest." don't seem to fit there.
It's odd in vault 15 as well though, because it's not you know, empty.
As for the Navarro lines I pretty much share your thoughts.

Meh, I don't know. It's so damned obscure.

 

[mavi85bmn]

I guess you missed the part where killap said that the bags are buggy.

No, I haven't missed it, that's why I said that bugs should be fixed.
Are you a programmer, DGT? If not, then you can't tell what can or can't be fixed, and usually everything can be fixed with correct approach. I'm not a programmer so I'm obviously not suited for the job, neither would I probably do it if I were because spending my time in real life is far more enjoyable for me.

However, it would be nice to see a playable mod with the features I have suggested thus far. And if these bugs truly can't be fixed, then maybe the bags and backpacks can be re-implemented, as their usage should be revamped in any case.

Either way, these are just a few ideas off the top of my head that I thought would make a great addition to RP gameplay. If Killap can find a way to incorporate them, that's great. If not, no big deal.

 

[benwah]

He replied to you up there, he said bags are gone forever.

That's a very clear answer.

By the way my toes curl every time I read about a bug being fixed, keep up the good work

 

[mavi85bmn]

I like pudding.

 

[.Pixote.]

This is about realism, not convenience.

This game doesn’t even pretend to be real…imagine walking through the hot desert with 400Ibs of gear on your back, you would collapse and die within a day or so. I always found that fact the player character could wonder through the wastelands with unrealistic amounts of gear on their body one of the more annoying factors in the game. Typically the PC becomes a hoarder, and I think everyone has indulged in that at some stage in the game (especially once you obtain the Highway Man). Personally would like the weight limits reduced to a more realistic level (even with Power Armor), but many wouldn’t enjoy that form of realism…

@ Endocore – Are you an ex-BlackIsle programmer!!! – Your knowledge of the Fallout scripts is excellent. With you finding all of the scripting discrepancy, and Killap fixing them, Fallout 2 is in safe hands.

 

[Claude Frollo]

This is about realism, not convenience.

This game doesn’t even pretend to be real…imagine walking through the hot desert with 400Ibs of gear on your back, you would collapse and die within a day or so. I always found that fact the player character could wonder through the wastelands with unrealistic amounts of gear on their body one of the more annoying factors in the game. Typically the PC becomes a hoarder, and I think everyone has indulged in that at some stage in the game (especially once you obtain the Highway Man). Personally would like the weight limits reduced to a more realistic level (even with Power Armor), but many wouldn’t enjoy that form of realism…

I totally agree with this. Fallout 3 is even more unrealistic in this matter. I guess you can carry much more there.

Your idea is perhaps the most direct solution.

My idea about this is travel speed could decrease indirect proportional to carry weight. Max weight could be for example 1x speed (incredibly slowly that actually people wouldnt want to carry that so greedy people should be slowed down who live for looting) and fastest speed x16 and beyond some weight travel speed multiplier should start to derease. I am assuming that the character can still find a way to carry that much stuff but of course which would slow her down drastically and slower travel speed means incredible amount of encounters and so danger for the stuff carried.

 

[Mordegar]

It would be nice for adding more realism to the game, but it would destroy the original balance and feeling of the game, i fear.
Well, it's nothing that should be added into the RP, because the RP is all about restoring lost content, not modding the game into a different direction.

Just my 2 cent.

 

[sydney_roo]

Realism is an utmost essential matter but let's not forget ultimately playing Fallout is all about having fun.

 

[Endocore]

@killap

Thanks for the detailed response to my questions. I was especially happy to hear I did the right thing on the Billy/Den issue, as I usually play a female Chosen One and that's always been a very frustrating issue in the early game when money still matters. Some of the other issues like the elevation@Modoc/Vault 15 and the various aspects of the reaction system left me confused as well, and your answers were very helpful.

killap wrote:

Can you compile a list of all these unused lines? It seems like a few of them might not have voice files attached to them (ie missing the slk#### tag on the message lines).

I had these narrowed down in the text file where I was working on Sulik's script, so here's a copy/paste from there (a few may be wrongly included, but I don't think so):

{103}{}{.}
{108}{slk2b}{Oh, no. We and I don't talk to no slave owner.}
{112}{}{Gug! (you look concerned)}

{240}{slk9a}{We and I will do so.}
{241}{slk9b}{We and I are the spirit of wrath, fren.}
{244}{slk10b}{We and I are ready to fight.}
{246}{slk11a}{We be like a turtle, fren.}
{247}{slk11b}{We and I will.}
{250}{slk12a}{This one bad trip, fren.}
{251}{slk12b}{We have felt better.}
{253}{slk13a}{It's so bad, we all hurt.}
{254}{slk13b}{Spirits think we and I may be joining them soon.}
{257}{slk14a}{Spirit of poison making home in me.}
{258}{slk14b}{Poison spirit moving in, moving out good spirits fast.}
{260}{slk15a}{Evil spirit is possessing us, fren. Chunks of hair be falling out!}
{261}{slk15b}{We and I glowing! Very bad spirit here.}
{263}{slk16a}{This good place. Maybe no one try to kill us for a change.}
{264}{slk16b}{Grandfather Bone say this good place.}
{267}{slk17a}{Bad spirits lurk here. We need to walk on.}
{268}{slk17b}{Grampy Bone say we should leave here.}
{270}{slk18a}{We and I've been in bad places before. This worse.}
{271}{slk18b}{Grampy Bone say this one bad place. If he talk, you and we need to listen.}

{328}{}{I'd rather talk about something else.}
{390}{}{They all very sad. Say time coming soon where there'll be nothing but bonespirits here.}
{391}{}{This place has no future. We and you need to do something.}

{480}{slk27na}{You must be a bridge between sides.}
{482}{slk27nb}{Quiet that which is under the water or the salvation of your tribe will also go under.}
{483}{slk27nc}{That which pushes the great steel tree into the sky must go to cradle the tribe.}
{484}{slk27nd}{Your people are worth more than the dark gold. Carry them with no less care.}
{490}{}{Those who appear to be spirits but are not carry many secrets.}
{491}{}{Like an onion, there are many layers, most hidden.}
{492}{}{The lifting machine may take you to unexpected places.}

{550}{}{There is great knowledge here.}
{551}{}{A stronger path through the future starts in such small places.}
{560}{slk28a}{We need a little time to be by ourself.}
{561}{slk28b}{Be needing some time off. A little smoke, a little think.}

{704}{slk28a}{We need a little time to be by ourself.}
{705}{slk28b}{Be needing some time off. A little smoke, a little think.}
{706}{slk29a}{Let us show you how it's done in our tribe.}
{707}{slk29b}{We be knowing the earth and winds well. We take care of this one.}
{708}{slk29c}{Bonespirits help us out on this one.}
{718}{slk33a}{Time for a little herb-superb anyway. More for us.}
{719}{slk33b}{Sounds like a plan. Bad things following you around like nobody's business anyway.}
{720}{slk33c}{Good luck to you, fren. We be thinking you be needing it.}
{724}{slk35a}{Hey, fren, just tell us to get out of your way.}
{725}{slk35b}{Sorry, fren.}
{726}{slk35c}{We move for you, no problem.}
{727}{slk36a}{Will do.}
{728}{slk36b}{Grampy Bone be telling us same thing}
{729}{slk36c}{Lotta fighting. Need better weapon.}
{730}{slk37a}{Spirits help, too. That and armor almost enough around you.}
{731}{slk37b}{Good idea. You draw angry people like flies on pasture pies.}
{732}{slk37c}{With you around, we be needing all we can get.}
{733}{slk37d}{It too heavy, fen. We like to dance away from the bad things.}
{734}{slk38a}{You need it, you got it.}
{735}{slk38b}{Let's do it.}
{736}{slk38c}{Trading no problem, fren. But only got one Grampy Bone. Sorry.}
{742}{slk40a}{We and I will take a look.}
{743}{slk40b}{Grampy Bone saying we should be careful.}
{744}{slk40c}{No problem. Make sure it safe for our fren.}
{745}{slk41a}{From now on you give two for one in trades...Just kidding. Grampy Bone
 say you get funny look - like that one.}
{747}{slk41c}{What's ours is yours, fren.}
{790}{slk52a}{You're bad news walking. Grampy Bone say we be stacking up the bad karma just being
 near you.}

{881}{}{I need you to get out of my way.}
{882}{}{I want to change combat tactics.}
{883}{}{I need you to wait here.}
{884}{}{You should heal yourself.}
{885}{}{Tell me how you are.}
{886}{}{That's it for now, Sulik.}
{887}{}{Tell me about this place.}
{890}{slk66}{What be the fighting strategy?}
{891}{}{I want you to change your distance.}
{892}{}{I want you to use your best weapon.}
{893}{}{I want you to use your best armor.}
{894}{}{I want you to change your aggressiveness.}
{895}{}{Never mind.}

{901}{}{I want you to stay at only a Short distance.}
{902}{}{I want you to stay at Medium distance.}
{903}{}{I want you to stay at Long distance.}
{904}{}{I need you to Scout Ahead.}
{905}{slk68}{How do you want us to fight?}
{906}{}{I want you to Fight Defensively for now.}
{907}{}{I need you to Fight Normally.}
{908}{}{I need you to Fight Aggressively.}
{916}{slk70a}{Be like middle of ant hill here. Too crowded for us.}
{917}{slk70b}{Our tribe seems smaller than this. Too many people for this trip.}
{919}{slk71}{We and I sad to see you take the mark. Think you growing dark in the soul. Have to
 go. See you.}
{920}{slk72}{You think owning people OK? Some fren. We're gone.}
{922}{slk73b}{You like a bad dream. We gotta go.}
{923}{slk74}{No way we be frens with Child Killer.}
{924}{slk75}{We think you're making a big mistake, but OK.}
{961}{slk82a}{By the time you're done, won't be a bad person in the world.}
{962}{slk82b}{Fren, you ever wonder if there's more bad people than bullets?}
{963}{slk83a}{You just like to see insides of bodies, right?}
{964}{slk83b}{Grampy Bone say I should worry if no one else around for you to kill.}
{965}{slk84a}{We and I think your little head be doing all the thinking.}
{966}{slk84b}{You spend too much time laying down on job.}

{1016}{}{Be like middle of ant hill here. Too crowded for us.}
{1017}{}{Our tribe seems smaller than this. Too many people for this trip.}
{1018}{}{You have your army. Don't need we and I for help now.}

{3000}{}{To the North.}
{3001}{}{To the Northwest.}
{3002}{}{To the setting sun.}
{3003}{}{To the Southwest.}
{3004}{}{To the South.}
{3005}{}{To the Southeast.}
{3006}{}{To the rising sun.}
{3007}{}{To the Northeast.}
{3008}{}{We don’t know anything about that.}
{3009}{}{Yes.}
{3010}{}{No.}
{3011}{}{What do you expect from us?}
{3012}{}{That not be nice.}
{3013}{}{Thank-you.}
{3014}{}{This is good.}
{3015}{}{This isn’t good.}
{3016}{}{We have a good feeling about this.}
{3017}{}{We have a bad feeling about this.}
{3018}{}{These people are crazy.}
{3020}{}{There must be another way.}
{3021}{}{Follow us.}
{3022}{}{Try this.}
{3023}{}{We go here now.}
{3024}{}{It went this way.}
{3025}{}{They went this way.}
{3026}{}{This is the path.}
{3027}{}{We've have found the trail.}
{3028}{}{Good hunting here.}
{3029}{}{Bad hunting here.}
{3030}{}{Safe to camp here.}
{3031}{}{Not safe to camp here.}
{3032}{}{We can rest here.}
{3033}{}{We get lucky.}
{3034}{}{You need to fix this.}
{3035}{}{You need to turn this on.}
{3036}{}{You need to unlock this.}
{3037}{}{You need to open this.}
{3038}{}{Maybe we should come back here.}
{3039}{}{We don’t understand.}
{3040}{}{We don’t know.}
{3071}{}{Sulik, please holster your weapon.}
{3086}{}{Take care fren.}
{3087}{}{We and I wish you the best of luck.}
{3088}{}{Thanks again for everything fren.}

Some them are redundant and some seem pretty mysterious, while others refer to the player character's reputation in various ways, and others are unused custom party dialogue options. The location-specific floats are all interesting, even though it's not clear what some of them reference. I know you try to be meticulous about what you modify to stay in line with the "restoration" spirit, but for my own personal use I incorporated a few of the lines as follows:

Pariah Dog encounter: 267, 268
Golgotha: 270,271
EPA: 490, 491, 492
Abbey: 550, 551

If someone were playing the Megamod, lines 390 and 391 would be a nice fit for Collyweb.

As you have been scripting your RP 2.0, have you relied extensively on the latest sfall functions? I do all my gaming stuff on a computer running Windows 98 (the only games I like are old stuff, eg Fallout, so there's no reason for me to make a change) and therefore I'll always be limited to the features available with sfall 1.37 (the last version I had downloaded before all the old Timeslip stuff was erased from the internet). In other words, I guess I'm wondering if your RP 2.0 will require sFall 2.x+, or if instead that will just be the suggestion to get optimum play.

@.Pixote



Thanks. I've been around a while (some old stuff I made for FOT has been in the NMA "Files" section for many years, although I've never joined the forum here until now), but I'm hardly an expert on anything. I'm just trying to learn the details of the FO2 scripting language for some small modifications I want to add to my own installation, so I've been carefully studying some of the existing scripts from the game.

 

[kungfujoe]

This is about realism, not convenience.

This game doesn’t even pretend to be real…imagine walking through the hot desert with 400Ibs of gear on your back, you would collapse and die within a day or so.

Even with a lower weight limit, Fallout doesn't pretend to be remotely realistic. Its very foundation is fantastical and unrealistic, as the post-apocalyptic world it's set it is not at all consistent with the effects of nuclear weapons. The land wouldn't be 99% barren decades after the blast, the radioactive fallout wouldn't affect people and animals in the way that is depicted in the game, etc. The basic premise is "what if nuclear war were anything like the irrational fears of the 1950's general populace?" There are plenty of other gameplay ideas that are patently ridiculous from a realism standpoint, too. Turn-based combat? Surviving multiple gunshot wounds to vital targets while still being able to fight? Instantly healing said gunshot wounds with an injectable drug? Choosing how your skills improve at discrete points instead of honing skills through use? There's hardly anything realistic at all about this game or most other games, and if "realism is an utmost essential matter " (Sydney), then the vast majority computer games probably aren't for you.

Adding tedious stuff from real life would make the game tedious, especially given that the in-game clock is sped up 10 times that of reality, if I recall correctly. It would be pretty annoying to have to find someplace to sleep every 1.6-1.8 hours, drink water every few minutes, eat food every 45 minutes or so, and find a bathroom every half hour. That's not a game I'd want to play. Apparently other people would, given how popular The Sims has been. Fallout isn't The Sims, though. (Thank goodness!)

Games, just like movies and TV shows, aren't about realism, they're about fun, and believability through internal consistency (which allows for suspension of disbelief).

I totally agree with this. Fallout 3 is even more unrealistic in this matter. I guess you can carry much more there.

FO3 is different with respect to its weight limits, and they made ammo weightless (kind of a necessity since it's more of an action game, so you need access to more ammo). If you have a STR 10 character in FO3, your carry weight is 250lbs, whereas if you have a STR 10 character in FO1/2, your carry weight is 275lbs. When your STR is 8 or less, FO3's weight limit becomes higher (230 vs 225lbs), with the difference getting bigger for lower strengths. However, FO2 has two perks that'll each add 50lbs to your carry weight, and FO3 has only one (no Pack Rat perk). FO3's item weights are also different (eg, its leather armor is 15lbs, vs 8lbs in FO1/2), and since items degrade with use, players need to have more than one of each item to do repairs. You also have fewer NPCs to share the load with. All said and done, I think the carry weight in FO3 is pretty well balanced, even though it's very different from the first two games. Neither is remotely realistic in this sense, so I'm not sure that it means anything to say that FO3 is less realistic in terms of its inventory limits.

On the flip side, you get a house or apartment in FO3, in which you can store an infinite amount of stuff, making it easy to be a pack rat with frequent trips back home.

 

[SHADOW-XIII]

@killap: What is your idea for "sleep system" ?

I was just thinking about having a counter (need_sleep),
just example but let's say each hour of sleep substracts from it 10 points, each hour of not sleeping adds to it 1 point or 2 points during night hours (unless player is "night creature" - perk possibility, which will add 1 point during night hours instead of 2).
Every 10 points player gets minus points to SPECIAL and/or skills. When it reaches 0 (in case of SPECIAL, therefore possible no-sleeping length would be 100h)
player dies from being exhausted from not sleeping.

During travelling on the map, every 10h player would stop with message "Your are sleepy, want to take a nap here or continue travel", YES/NO.
Yes opens map with no(?) enemies where you can sleep, during sleeping on the world map there would be small chance to be approached by creatures (enemies/friends/npc/animals), let's say PERCEPTION would influent how early you wake up (very low = you wake up when they attack you, very high = you wake up when enemy enters map)

uff.... just had this idea, might seems compilcated but it is just base on 1 integer value (+possbile perk?) and pentaly system could be base on same as chem addiction

what you think anyone ?

 

[sydney_roo]

if "realism is an utmost essential matter " (Sydney), then the vast majority computer games probably aren't for you.

Why did you take only the first words of my sentance? And less important at that. I was being sarcastic and meant to say "Fallout is about having fun". I'm actually with you on most things you just said.

 

[.Pixote.]

Games, just like movies and TV shows, aren't about realism, they're about fun, and believability through internal consistency (which allows for suspension of disbelief).

I fully agree that Fallout is meant to fun, but why would it be any less fun if you had to be a little more choosey about the gear you carry, instead of 2 dozen weapons (collected from the corpses of your victims), maybe you will choose the 2 or 3 best, and leave the rest. I think it should be at least considered, possibly even tested. If it proved beneficial make it an optional install, if it was unworthy – toss it. I think it can potentially make Fallout a grittier experience. This is not a suggestion to create a realistic approach to the carry weight in Fallout. But how would we play if the PC was forced to carry slightly less gear…

 

[fortyseven]

Games, just like movies and TV shows, aren't about realism, they're about fun, and believability through internal consistency (which allows for suspension of disbelief).

I fully agree that Fallout is meant to fun, but why would it be any less fun if you had to be a little more choosey about the gear you carry, instead of 2 dozen weapons (collected from the corpses of your victims), maybe you will choose the 2 or 3 best, and leave the rest. I think it should be at least considered, possibly even tested. If it proved beneficial make it an optional install, if it was unworthy – toss it. I think it can potentially make Fallout a grittier experience. This is not a suggestion to create a realistic approach to the carry weight in Fallout. But how would we play if the PC was forced to carry slightly less gear…

I fully agree with Pixote on this. It has always bugged me that Fallout allows you to carry around 200kg of stuff. The way I remedy that is I pick small frame and a fairly low strength and rarely wear power armor. Even then you can still carry like 60kg and I rarely feel like I have to leave valuble stuff behind, but at least I have to be a bit sensible about what I carry and what not. Ultimately, the economy of Fallout for me is characterised by extreme scarsity. Thus, it shouldn't be possible for the player to undermine that by carrying a dozen miniguns in his pockets with which he can buy out any merchant in the game.

 

[mavi85bmn]

This is about realism, not convenience.

This game doesn’t even pretend to be real…imagine walking through the hot desert with 400Ibs of gear on your back, you would collapse and die within a day or so.

Well, I wasn't talking about how much weight the PC should be able to carry, but instead how much could be carried with and without some kind of a bag or backpack. The weight character can carry is ultimately decided by his strength, and I don't see any problem with that.

The only relevant question here is, how can you carry over 10 pounds worth of stuff around even over a short distance without a car, a bag or a backpack? The short answer is, you can't.
Can you go to a store in real life, get a bunch of groceries, and then carry them home without a bag? No. That's common logic, nothing more.

You need something to put your stuff in. Without a backpack, you can at most carry a couple of guns along with a few essentials attached to your belt and stored in your pockets, no matter how strong you are.
A person is not a truck that can just load himself with over 200 pounds of stuff (which is, aside from the armor and a gun, not even anywhere to be seen, no less), and that's the part where even if the game is fantasy-based, falls apart.

Unless this is a George Jetson based trick where things can be stored in a 4th spatial dimension and packed into a box of cigarettes, the game's own logic falls apart here, and that's what should be addressed in this mod, not the basic workings of the game that (for the most part) work well.

 

[kungfujoe]

the game's own logic falls apart here, and that's what should be addressed in this mod, not the basic workings of the game that (for the most part) work well.

At the conceptual level, it works fine, though not from a visual (graphics) perspective. Just as in almost every single game in history that has an inventory, the inventory itself is a container (albeit one that isn't specifically categorized as a specific kind of real-life container). It's not represented on screen outside of the inventory screen, though (again, just like most games with inventories). In order to remedy this "problem," all of the sprites would need to be updated to include a variable-sized container that changes appearance based on what's in your inventory (ditto for NPCs). Having containers (bags) within a container (inventory) won't actually fix this problem at all from a "realism" standpoint, since they'll still be invisible containers that take no space... just like an inventory.

 

[MIB88]

@SHADOW-XIII: I really like this idea... gonna have to consider this for the MM, and would be more than happy to discuss this topic there if no one else wants to here.

 

[mavi85bmn]

Having containers (bags) within a container (inventory) won't actually fix this problem at all from a "realism" standpoint, since they'll still be invisible containers that take no space... just like an inventory.

That's right, the current Fallout inventory/bag system won't solve the problem, because it is the problem.
"Inventory" should essentially be your storage space (a container in its true sense of the word). Without a larger storage device like a bag or a backpack, you shouldn't be able to carry around more than say, 10 pounds of stuff. With an added bag or backpack, your carrying capacity should be proportionally increased, depending on the size of the bag.

Fixing additional graphics to go along with this would be a plus, but the basic logic of the carrying mechanics should be addressed first.