Fallout 2 Restoration Project 1.2 (Unofficial FO2 Expansion)

[Omegawolf]

Boxing problem fixed by re-enter in fight mode... no bug.

Seriously, what is the deal? Lots of people seem to be jumping on the "not a bug" bandwagon. I always assumed that a "bug" was something that works in a way that it was not intended to work. Was it intended to automatically throw your match like that? Maybe our definitions of "bug" are different? Can someone please explain this to me? Oh, and when does a "bug" become a "feature"? I've seen that one many times as well. A... featured bug? Does someone get their name placed in the FO2 credits for creating such an awesome bug that the developers decided to feature it?

I don't mean to single this guy out. He's not the only one, but I'd like for someone to define "bug" for me if I'm not understanding something here.

 

[Darek]

@ Omegawolf,

Your quote is related to this I believe:

If you lose a round by critical failure, the game sometimes thinks you still need to miss your next turn. This will happen the next time you enter combat, so you lose the next round immediately. Entering combat before you box again will fix this.

Oh, if that is what he meant then yes, no bug here.

I take it as meaning there is no bug on killap's part and no scripting bug on BiS's part. I would say it is an engine bug though, one that can't be addressed for now.

You ask when a "bug" become a "feature"? Turn it around and ask when does a "feature" become a "bug"? I've seen both happen.
Maybe it's not always so easy to interpret what the original devs intended. Sometimes people likes a bug and calls it a feature, and sometimes they don't like a feature and call it a bug, you know.

 

[killap]

@Omegawolf

Interesting you should bring up the boxing fight issue. So, there actually is a way to fix this (a user here brought a solution to my attention) but according to the official 1.02 readme, losing the match when critically missing is intended.

From the official 1.02 patch readme:

-All boxing problems have been addressed. Critical failures count as a knockdown, this is not going to be changed.

 

[Morticia]

If it ain'tn supposed to be Restoration Project then it isn't. So don't ye be a botherin with postin this shit n'all there aint no use!

 

[Darek]

@Omegawolf

Interesting you should bring up the boxing fight issue. So, there actually is a way to fix this (a user here brought a solution to my attention) but according to the official 1.02 readme, losing the match when critically missing is intended.

From the official 1.02 patch readme:

-All boxing problems have been addressed. Critical failures count as a knockdown, this is not going to be changed.

I thought the issue was about losing the next match as well after a critical failure, or am I totally misunderstanding things?

 

[killap]

I thought the issue was about losing the next match as well after a critical failure, or am I totally misunderstanding things?

Yeah...sorry. Ignore what I have said. The solution I was given was for making critical failure not count as a current round loss. The problem of losing the next match (based on a critical failure) is indeed an engine issue.

 

[Mazen]

Hi I'm having a little bit of trouble with the patch. I install it over a brand new Large install, add in the new fixed files.
I start the game, it launches fine up until I've finished creating my character. Instead of starting off outside the temple of trials i get a
"The instruction at 0048d9c4 referenced memory at 00000014
The memory could not be read from

Click OK to terminate the application."

This is from the version downloaded from killap's sig.

Any help would be appreciated

 

[Haenlomal]

@Omegawolf

Interesting you should bring up the boxing fight issue. So, there actually is a way to fix this (a user here brought a solution to my attention) but according to the official 1.02 readme, losing the match when critically missing is intended.

From the official 1.02 patch readme:

-All boxing problems have been addressed. Critical failures count as a knockdown, this is not going to be changed.

As the 'user' who suggested the potential solution to this problem, I think I know why the original developers would not change this. Basically, it's a VERY involved change for relatively small functionality.

I've not had the chance to thoroughly test my solution yet, but it seems that DAM_LOSE_TURN cannot be captured in combat_p_proc (where all the processing for winning or losing currently resides). Instead, I suspect you need to capture it in damage_p_proc. Note implications of this:

1) The boxer's script has no way of immediately accessing the state of the player.
2) combat_p_proc has no immediate way of knowing the exact nature of the critical failure of the boxer himself.
3) As a result, damage_p_proc has to be changed in obj_dude...and since obj_dude will get damaged a lot, this means a LOT of processing overhead...imagine a full burst attack! Keep in mind this game was developed in 1998.

One quick and dirty way to get around this is to pass a timed event, say "missed_turn_param", and somehow use that to set a variable. But there is no guarantee that the boxer's script will process the event in time (at least in theory).

A more permanent solution is to flag a map variable, and set bits as either the player or the boxer misses a turn. In combat_p_proc, read the variable and take appropriate action based on it.

Either way, it's very ugly and very involved. Plus, given the greatly increased overhead in processing damage_p_proc for obj_dude in every SINGLE combat, and most of Black Isle's resources being devoted to other projects...well, they did what any sensible developer would do: call it a "feature" and leave it alone.

Fortunately, we have much more powerful computers now, so hopefully processing overhead isn't a problem anymore. But still, it's an awful lot for work for a relatively small improvement. I for one would not blame killap for not bothering to fix this at all.

-- The Haen.

 

[Omegawolf]

I wasn't talking about fixing the problem at all. I was merely confused as to why so many people are taking the Bush/Jedi approach to some bugs in the game. "There is no bug here. These aren't the brain bots you're looking for." Saying that it's not an RP bug is one thing, but saying it's not a bug at all is saying something completely different, yes?

 

[Kanhef]

I don't know if this is possible, but the problem would be bypassed if you could force the game to enter and end combat after losing the match. Disabling the interface (like during cutscenes) would keep the player from doing anything in case they lost by disqualification or other means.

 

[killap]

I don't know if this is possible, but the problem would be bypassed if you could force the game to enter and end combat after losing the match. Disabling the interface (like during cutscenes) would keep the player from doing anything in case they lost by disqualification or other means.

Not a bad idea. I'll look into this.

 

[Josan12]

I have to say: i think loosing the boxing match by critical faliure is ludicrous and makes no sense at all. Plus, in my playing experience Joqq and co. are unable to win a fight unless the player critically fails on them. I agree with Haen that BIS must have decided it wasn't worth correcting and called it a feature. I don't even bother doing the jungle gym fights anymore.

 

[Ixyroth]

Is the stealing algorithm hardcoded or can it be changed via a script/.pro file, because as it stands it's by far the biggest flaw in this game. Pickpocketing large guns shouldn't be possible.

If it can't be changed, the only solution would be to move NPCs' weapons from their inventories to their primary or secondary weapons slots.

 

[firesickle]

It would be nice to see a fix for the boxing arena. My latest character is a Str 8 Int 2 Ag 9 Luck 9 UA character with the Jinxed trait. This character is hard to play, but I thought it would be a nice change (o_o).

Boxing is funny because I can win without throwing a punch, but I am risking losing by attacking since I crit failure so much myself.

 

[JOG]

I don't know if this is possible, but the problem would be bypassed if you could force the game to enter and end combat after losing the match. Disabling the interface (like during cutscenes) would keep the player from doing anything in case they lost by disqualification or other means.

Not a bad idea. I'll look into this.

How is that knockout handled anyway?

You fail critically and the fight ends at once, is there an extra check for the "lost round" status, just like the checks for kicking or removing the gloves?

When such a check exists and is removed then the opponent should get his turn normally, and then in the next combat round the fight is over just like it now is at the start of the next fight.

 

[firesickle]

In the ghost farm outside of Modoc, I talked to the leader of the Slags and went to exit the map by clicking the ladder (Not really paying attention that the guy is blocking me from getting to the ladder). It plays the sound for the ladder, but it displays the "Cannot Get There" message. I found it interesting since when the guy moves for me, it doesnt play the sound till I reach the ladder.

It had no real effect on my gameplay, but after I noticed it, I started making rhythms by clicking the ladder in a pattern, it actually was entertaining for a few minutes!

 

[Glovz]

@killap
Just a thought, but would the critical failure issue in the New Reno boxing ring at all be shared in San Fransico fighting challenges?

I understand different scripts are probably involved, but if they were coded similiar ...

Again, just a stray thought.

 

[ryo]

hey i have a problem with f2rp. i get an empty encounter every half a tile on the map while travelling. basically once every second im on the map, which is a lot. any way to fix that? just travelling from arroyo to klamath is a tedious since i have to move to the edge of the scene all the time just to continue travelling.

i looked through the ddraw.ini and i found a WorldMapEncounterRate variable but i logically deducted that there has to be a bug/glitch since its the default value and i never changed anything and i doubt the creator of f2rp would want his users to grind through empty encounters just to get somewhere.

any help would be appreciated.

info:
us version fallout 2 patched to official 1.02 before installing latest version of f2rp (manual zip version). i extracted everything to the main fallout 2 directory using intact subfolders (except for the 95/98 .exes and .dlls since im using xp)

peace

 

[Darek]

@ ryo,
Remove everything to do with Fallout 2, except maybe your save.
Reinstall again, and see if that helps. Using the 1.02 official patch is not necessary. Why not use the installer version of the RP instead? It has more features.

cheers

 

[Omegawolf]

I have to say: i think loosing the boxing match by critical faliure is ludicrous and makes no sense at all.

This is the way I've always seen it:
A ref can stop a fight if the other boxer looks as if he's unable to defend himself. A critical miss would certainly make the boxer look to the ref as if he's been fucked up too much to fight back.