Joe Kremlin said:
For a 'species' that is suppose to be sterile, they sure made up for their 'problem'.
Fallout 3 at E3 - Armchair Empire
- Thread starter Brother None
- Start date
For a 'species' that is suppose to be sterile, they sure made up for their 'problem'.
Sure, it's nice. But Ron Perlman's voice-acting doesn't make a true Fallout sequel anymore than...Blackwing said:
... this does. For one thing, the Nuka-Cola bottle in the trailer didn't look like a Nuka-Cola bottle, it looked like a Coca-Cola bottle. For another, such little things are not at the core of Fallout. Putting such things in the game is nice, sure, and really pretty much expected, but having them in doesn't mean the rest of the game can be nothing like the originals.
You mean like the communication faux-pas Bethesda pulled with Oblivion, or has been pulling all along so far with FO3?
Saying "well at least it's not PoS", while probably true, doesn't mean it should be immune to criticism for the many flaws that can already be seen in its implementation of SPECIAL, its combat system, and its general approach to the Fallout universe.
A flawed look at the issue. I'm sure you won't have to be a UT or Halo veteran to kill things with the FPS-style combat, but it's still doesn't resemble the original Fallouts' gameplay at all. And has been stated a bajillion times, a sequel to a game should not have completely different gameplay. Gameplay is what makes a game a game. Why is it too much to expect an updated, modern version of a turn-based combat system? Turn-based is not archaic, and there are way more than enough FPS and even FPP-RPG games out there already. I love Halo and am very much looking forward to Halo 3; I thought Oblivion was nice for a while before its numerous flaws really began to wear on me; but, we don't need Fallout turned into another Halo or Oblivion. Why can't Fallout just be Fallout?
With Todd Howard in charge of the project, and from what I've seen and heard so far, I wouldn't hold my breath.
If they didn't want to make things like they're supposed to be in Fallout, then why the hell did they buy the damn license? If they want to make their own vision of a post-apocalyptic retro-future, fine! They're perfectly welcome to make A Post-Apocalyptic Oblivion: Todd Howard Edition. But they're using the Fallout license, world, and cannon. How is it okay for them not to stick to it? They're calling them super-mutants, they should look like super-mutants. If they're not super-mutants, they should call them something else. Not to mention they still have no business being on the east coast by Fallout cannon, unless they're going with "uh oh! It's Master the Second! This time he's in DC, he's got new super-Uruk-Hai FEV vats, and he's pissed off!" Oh, and he probably turns out to be your dad.
To be perfectly fair, I can at least propose a somewhat plausible reason for BoS to be there. Since, in Fallout 2, you did, presumably, give the Brotherhood the vertibird plans, it's not too much to assume that, 80 years later (I think?), they've built a few and maybe even sent a couple across the country to scout for technology / build new outposts / whatever. Though of course you'd have to wonder where they got all the fuel. Vertibirds could run on fusion cells, though, or maybe those "nukular enjins" that the cars have... just have to hope a rogue bandit doesn't take a couple potshots at it or else "BOOM LOL!" Plus, at the time of Fallout 2, the Brotherhood's power was on the decline, so it doesn't seem to make much sense that they'd be expanding quite so much even 80 years later. Although, still, the vertibirds would probably have helped the Brotherhood out a lot, and it's even possible they cut back somewhat on their isolationist policies and therefore are becoming a much larger power by that time.
I doubt anyone over there has even been able to think up reasons half as good as those that I thought up in the past ten minutes, though.
Hello Kyuu,
A few small corrections
Bethesda's Fallout 3 takes place thirty years after Fallout 2, not eighty
Regarding the BoS and vertibirds, I have brought this up several times and never really got a response on it; did the Brotherhood ever build vertibirds?
If my memory is somewhat correct, the Brotherhood wanted those plans to create a defence against vertibirds, not necessarily create their own which by the way is a little far fetched IMO.
Repairing a car or truck and turning them into armoured vehicles is one thing but completely building up a flying machine from its basics without any kind of manufacturing plant?
Perhaps possible but you won't be making dozens of them nor would these 'make shift' vertibirds be as good as the factory standard version.
Not sure that the BoS would risk flying those to the East Coast.
A few small corrections
Bethesda's Fallout 3 takes place thirty years after Fallout 2, not eighty
Regarding the BoS and vertibirds, I have brought this up several times and never really got a response on it; did the Brotherhood ever build vertibirds?
If my memory is somewhat correct, the Brotherhood wanted those plans to create a defence against vertibirds, not necessarily create their own which by the way is a little far fetched IMO.
Repairing a car or truck and turning them into armoured vehicles is one thing but completely building up a flying machine from its basics without any kind of manufacturing plant?
Perhaps possible but you won't be making dozens of them nor would these 'make shift' vertibirds be as good as the factory standard version.
Not sure that the BoS would risk flying those to the East Coast.
whirlingdervish
Brahmin Cavalry Commander
I believe the term that Matthew used in Fallout 2 was "A suitable countermeasure" for the vertibirds..
I could be wrong.
That could mean a fleet of their own vertibirds with better weapons and armor, or some form of anti-aircraft weaponry, or some other vehicle that would allow them to traverse the wastes and delve as deeply into them as the enclave were capable of doing with their flying machines.
I could be wrong.
That could mean a fleet of their own vertibirds with better weapons and armor, or some form of anti-aircraft weaponry, or some other vehicle that would allow them to traverse the wastes and delve as deeply into them as the enclave were capable of doing with their flying machines.
Hello whirlingdervish,
Most probably anti aircraft guns or missiles.
Of course there is always the possibility that the Brotherhood overran Navarro after the destruction of the Poseidon Oil Derrick and took control of the remaining vertibirds there.
If the remnants of the Enclave didn't decide to destroy them to keep them out of 'mutant' hands.
Most probably anti aircraft guns or missiles.
Of course there is always the possibility that the Brotherhood overran Navarro after the destruction of the Poseidon Oil Derrick and took control of the remaining vertibirds there.
If the remnants of the Enclave didn't decide to destroy them to keep them out of 'mutant' hands.
Well there's a good point for East Coast Mutants too: The Enclave, with it's Vertibirds, may have spread mutated FEV (intentionally or accidentally) all over America.
There might be small colonies of Super Mutants everywhere, maybe this variant is airborne, but can only survive in certain environments.
Just a little speculation, I do agree the supermutants look orc-like, but then again so did original Supermutants... to be honest.
There might be small colonies of Super Mutants everywhere, maybe this variant is airborne, but can only survive in certain environments.
Just a little speculation, I do agree the supermutants look orc-like, but then again so did original Supermutants... to be honest.
Vault 69er
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
If FEV ever, ever, ever had the slightest chance of being infectious, let alone airborne, don't you think the Master would've unleashed it already? Unity for everyone!
Hello Blackwing,
The Enclave was not interested in spreading FEV to create more mutants, all they wanted was to turn it into a killer bio agent.
As for the colonies of Super Mutants, lets look outside the context of the story.
The Super Mutants were a great opponent in Fallout 1, but they were defeated and their remnants either intergrated into the wasteland communities or were killed.
The Enclave were the major opponent of Fallout 2, they too were defeated and we can speculate what is left of them disappeared into the wasteland communities.
All and all, Bethesda should have been making a complete new opponent, and not constantly bring the old ones back.
Sure we can have a few stray Super Mutants here, and perhaps that NCR senator was once an Enclave secret agent, but that is how far it should go.
Not constantly bringing them back and back.
Personally I think most of the opponents in DC should have been raiders and perhaps human gone insane by radiation, becoming a different kind of mutant than a Ghoul.
The Enclave was not interested in spreading FEV to create more mutants, all they wanted was to turn it into a killer bio agent.
As for the colonies of Super Mutants, lets look outside the context of the story.
The Super Mutants were a great opponent in Fallout 1, but they were defeated and their remnants either intergrated into the wasteland communities or were killed.
The Enclave were the major opponent of Fallout 2, they too were defeated and we can speculate what is left of them disappeared into the wasteland communities.
All and all, Bethesda should have been making a complete new opponent, and not constantly bring the old ones back.
Sure we can have a few stray Super Mutants here, and perhaps that NCR senator was once an Enclave secret agent, but that is how far it should go.
Not constantly bringing them back and back.
Personally I think most of the opponents in DC should have been raiders and perhaps human gone insane by radiation, becoming a different kind of mutant than a Ghoul.
Vault 69er said:
Well... "That was then, this now."
FEV seems to be a very adaptable virus, it may have taken a while for it to mutate up to this point.
Also, Marcus implies once or twice in FO2 that the whole 'Supermutants are sterile' thing is a) not universal or b) a complete myth.
But don't get me wrong I don't like it either.
Hello Blackwing
This is a joke, and it has been confirmed by the developers several times.
FEV makes it impossible for mutants to reproduce, check Vault wiki.
Blackwing said:
This is a joke, and it has been confirmed by the developers several times.
FEV makes it impossible for mutants to reproduce, check Vault wiki.
S
Stag
Guest
Vault 69er said:
Not that I agree FEV is necessarily airborn, but keep in mind that the Master didn't know mutants were sterile, either.
Ah, yeah I did think that eighty seemed too much, but no other number came to mind at the time. Thanks for the correction.The Dutch Ghost said:Bethesda's Fallout 3 takes place thirty years after Fallout 2, not eighty
Well for one thing, there's no good reason to say that the Brotherhood wouldn't have or be able to build an appropriate manufacturing plant. They've certainly scavenged enough knowledge and technology. Further, as previously mentioned, with the Enclave gone, they would've had access to everything at the Navarro base, including at least one or two intact vertibirds, if I remember correctly.
For another, why exactly would the BoS need vertibird plans to build anti-aircraft artillery or missles? Doesn't really make sense. They only reason to have vertibird plans is to build your own, or to get a general idea of the technology so as to build your own variant. When Matt said "a suitable countermeasure," or whatever his exact words were, I'm pretty sure it meant the BoS wanted to build their own flying machine. After all, why would they not want to build their own aircraft?
You're right there, it does seem a little far fetched. However, my entire theory on the subject was just being generous to Bethesda. I don't really find it plausible that, even with vertibirds or an equivalent technology, the Brotherhood would be flying all the way to the east coast, whether in 30 or 80 years.
On the subject of the super mutants, there was no mention of FEV ever having the possibility of becoming airborne, as far as I can recall. It also seems an unlikely possibility, considering that they had to dip people in vats of it to make them super mutants. But somehow it became airborne and spread to the east coast and people became super mutants merely by inhaling it?
As The Dutch Ghost said, Bethesda simply should've thought of some new enemies rather than creating what is really an impossible situation by bringing the BoS and super mutants to Washington, D.C. There's plenty of room for ghouls and raiders to exist anywhere, really. But BoS and super mutants? Not if you're abiding by the pre-established lore. 'Course, they could always just pull a completely rediculous retcon.
Hello Kyuu.
While the Brotherhood would indeed have the knowledge to build a manufacturing plant, I get the idea that the Brotherhood either doesn't have the resources/man power or not the interest.
They did indeed manufacture arms and munitions at their headquarters, there was never any mentioning of more complex technology.
They probably understand technology, able to repair it and perhaps copy it but on the moment the Brotherhood seems more like very advanced 'salvagers', and not manufacturers.
Edit:
Regarding new factions at the East Coast that have Power Armour, why no the descendants of the forces that were stationed at Washington DC?
Their ancestors fled into the region around the city when it became apparent that DC would be nuked, now they have returned to 'retake' DC and wipe out all the raider filth and mutant scum that have claimed it as their own.
Kyuu said:
While the Brotherhood would indeed have the knowledge to build a manufacturing plant, I get the idea that the Brotherhood either doesn't have the resources/man power or not the interest.
They did indeed manufacture arms and munitions at their headquarters, there was never any mentioning of more complex technology.
They probably understand technology, able to repair it and perhaps copy it but on the moment the Brotherhood seems more like very advanced 'salvagers', and not manufacturers.
Edit:
Regarding new factions at the East Coast that have Power Armour, why no the descendants of the forces that were stationed at Washington DC?
Their ancestors fled into the region around the city when it became apparent that DC would be nuked, now they have returned to 'retake' DC and wipe out all the raider filth and mutant scum that have claimed it as their own.
Kyuu said:
Building a manufacturing plant from scratch would be a very big job, and not something that you'd expect from the BOS. You have to remember that there'd be a million different parts in each of those vertibirds: circuit boards, valves, tyres, nuts/bolts and a large number of specially shaped metal pieces (rotors, side panels etc).
The BOS just wouldn't have the manpower to create such a big plant, not to mention that they've never run anything like that before. And every component would have to be millimeter perfect to fit together. I wouldn't want to be the first test pilot on any brand new BOS built vertibirds.
It's more likely that the BOS could use the plans to repair existing vertibirds, or create a new one from some scavenged parts they'd found from old broken vertibirds.
Kyuu said:
Rather than reinvent the wheel Beth are taking the easy option here, and to most the XBox/PS3 gaming crowd the mutants and BOS would sound cool, and they wouldn't give a damn if it fits the original story or not.
Beth haven't mentioned the deathclaws or ghouls yet, but it's a good bet that the ghouls become your generic zombie. That way they could cross genres with the storyline and attempt to pick up some of the Resident Evil fans as well.
Mick
Mick1965 said:
I think Resident Evil fans are smart enough to know a bad game when they see one, and the presence of zombies doesn't automatically win over their kind.
I'm a RE nut and I religiously watch zombie movies, but games like 'House of the Dead' I will not touch with a 10 foot pole.
if the ghouls become zombies and don't have personality, just mindless "braaaaaaains" then I'll be real pissed off
I wonder if Bethesda will try to put Harold in FO3 to win over some fans
"HAY LOOK GUYSE!! ITS HAROLD!!! PLZ LIKE US?>!"
That's an interesting theory; however, the BoS logo clearly imprinted on the power armor makes it pretty explicit that they are, in fact, BoS, not a new faction with access to power armor.The Dutch Ghost said:
@ Mick: Yeah, I agree that it'd be a rather big job that's hard to imagine the BoS doing with the sort of manpower they had at the end of FO2. However, there's no reason to say that they couldn't have become less isolationist and greatly increased their manpower and sphere of power. Still, in only 30 years I wouldn't imagine they could've gotten too far with it. Still leaves the ability to build a couple from scavenged parts as well as whatever they could've taken from the remnants of the Enclave.
I'm not really trying to defend the theory too seriously as, like I said, I was trying to be generous to Bethesda and consider how it could be remotely possible that the BoS happens to be in D.C. I do think the BoS would've been trying to build their own flying machines after FO2, though.
Kyuu said:
I'm not too sure about that. Considering that there weren't really that many places capable of producing enough power to satisfy even their own needs in FO2 (Unless you solved there problems of course
), I don't know if the BoS could really afford to spend so much fuel on flying machines.. its not like they got an oil rig or anything 
Hell, you were like the only dude around with a working car!
(Though that might just be the only 'visible' working car since people weren't surprised by it and others could actually repair cars....)
Hello Kyuu
I think you misunderstand me.
I was suggesting an idea for a new 'original' faction at Washington DC that uses Pre War Power Armour without having it to be the BoS.
Kyuu said:
I think you misunderstand me.
I was suggesting an idea for a new 'original' faction at Washington DC that uses Pre War Power Armour without having it to be the BoS.
The Dutch Ghost said:Hello Kyuu
Kyuu said:
I think you misunderstand me.
I was suggesting an idea for a new 'original' faction at Washington DC that uses Pre War Power Armour without having it to be the BoS.
why can't there be sub-branches of this fine organisation?
