Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Project Purity is placed in such a way that it drains a lake and then throws the water into the Ocean...
This ghoul has seen it all
The ending to fo3 is pretty crapy. I mean I liked the whole vault thing and the built up to the end. However I did at frist realise that the ending actually didn't matter at all. I always thought their was an opion to side with the enclave by killing the wasteland and siding with them but yeah their not and thats a big let down
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Deacon flat out says it's full of fresh water and a much better place.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
So apparently the pure water immediately fixed the fact that there are only 2 settlements in the region and that the place is infested with Super Mutants, Mercenaries and Raiders?
CaptJ
The Rival of Roquefort Hall
@CT Phipps
You still haven't explain why sacrifice isn't the central theme of Fallout 3 besides your distaste for its portrayal or its subject matter and the game's post-release revision. The Death of Author isn't an argument in the same way that saying it being the raining season doesn't necessarily mean that it is going to rain the next day. If you claim that it isn't going to rain the next day, your argument should be something other than "Rain is miserable.".
You still haven't explain why sacrifice isn't the central theme of Fallout 3 besides your distaste for its portrayal or its subject matter and the game's post-release revision. The Death of Author isn't an argument in the same way that saying it being the raining season doesn't necessarily mean that it is going to rain the next day. If you claim that it isn't going to rain the next day, your argument should be something other than "Rain is miserable.".
Not only that but even in the Broken Steel DLC we see that having pure water makes the water caravans being ambushed and destroyed a lot (which would drain the BoS and the Rivet City of personnel), tricked to deliver the water to just some random person who says they want the water for holy reasons or allow corruption and the BoS scribe sells water to a "snake oil" charlatan that uses it to swindle Underworld ghouls from their caps.
To be honest not even one settlement or it's people changes in any radical way after the purifier is working in FO3 and DLCs.
I really don't understand how the purifier would help the Capital Wasteland with it's biggest problems which like Walpknut says are the Super mutants, raiders, mercs and mutated fauna. Is it because the BoS will get more recruits because it is a goody two shoes delivering clean water? It can't be that because Sarah Lyons says they do not have vacancies for new recruits and even have too many already when we ask her if they are looking for more even after we saved them from a behemoth.
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
Deacon is a retard who abandons his family In search of a cure and then never returns to said family instead entrusting the delivery of the cure to strangers. He's dumb. And as I and @Walpknut have demonstrated there's no logical way anything you did helped anything. The capital wasteland has no government and no clean water (as when the BOS leaves so goes efficient distribution) deacon can say what he wants but we also have to take into account that he was written by hacks. Because as I see there is no logical way what he says can be remotely true.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Wait. isn't Deacon the cringelord of the Railroad? IS he from DC? Or are you guys talking about Mccready?
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
Hmmmm... Sorry. It seems I've mixed up my clichés.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Uhm, what? The region was taken over by the Brotherhood of Steel as an authoritarian feudal dictatorship. As for the Brotherhood of Steel, they don't leave. Their ELDER leaves with a bunch of troops but there's two Sentinels in the Brotherhood of Steel and one stays behind in the Capital Wasteland.
You think the entirety of the BoS left for the Commonwealth? Not exactly a good strategy for conquest is it?
The Lone wanderer solved like 90% of the place's problems. Talon Company is destroyed by the Brotherhood of Steel as you can attack their base with a squadron of them and kill them. You give the location of the Super Mutant base of operation to Elder Lyons after you get the GECK--which means they can wipe them out now. That doesn't happen but the BoS is still able to fight them and apparently do so quite well according to Paladin Danse.
As for Raiders? Well, they're primarily funded and outfitted by Ashur anyway and he's taken down. Double points if you wipe out Paradise Falls. Harold's Fauna is going to cover most of the place if you didn't shut him down and the Water Purifiying is killing the Mutants.
The Commonwealth is fixed.
Because there's two instances of sacrifice in the game, both of which aren't necessary to accomplish anything due to bad writing. To make an example, do you find Synthesis to be the theme of the Mass Effect trilogy? That's the ending of Mass Effect 3. The vast majority of the game except for two incidents which are ones that can be avoided and accomplish very little are the instances of "sacrifice." You said they're important moments in the game but James sacrifice doesn't save you or anyone but just delays the Enclave. Your sacrifice is also a stupid one since you probably have Fawkes nearby and can choose to have someone else die for you. Furthermore, Bethesda seems to agree since Broken Steel fixes this flaw in the main game.
Aside from these two instances? Where is sacrifice? Please, I'm open to being persuaded. You could very well prove me wrong.
Talon Company's headquarters is destroyed by the Brotherhood of Steel during one of the quests. The mutants are being killed by the Clean Water (part of Broken Steel). You've probably cleaned out most of the Raider dens. You've also given the BoS the location of the Super Mutants as well as wiped them out at Big Town and other locations. The BoS now also have an endless supply of Vertibirds and Power armor from raiding Addams Air force base too.
Paradise Falls and the Pitt have fallen too, which means that the Raider economy is doomed.
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The mutants are only being killed by the water if the Lone Wanderer uses the altered FEV on the purifier. And if he does everyone in the capital wasteland will die (Lone Wanderer included as we can see ingame if we drink aqua pura a few times and we die) if they drink that water.
I always side with Ashur, I only destroy Paradise Falls 50% of the time and it is impossible to clean most raiders dens because they spawn with time and I always kill Harold, the poor bastard had suffered enough. And again I point out that ingame we hear about and see water caravans being destroyed and raided, doesn't look like the BoS can keep them safe (they even use Rivet City security personnel because they don't have the numbers on their own).
Never ingame anyone says Ashur outfits the capital wasteland raiders, specially because Ashur can only manufacture ammunition at that time, the only interaction with the capital wasteland by him is the trade of ammunition for slaves IIRC (so he only really interacts with slavers, slavers are not really raiders compared to the rest of the Capital Wasteland raiders). You also just said that the BoS does not wipe the Super Mutants from it by FO4, not to mention that the BoS just removed a considerate amount of their military forces from the Capital Wasteland, if in 10 years and knowing where the Super Mutants are they didn't destroy that threat, I doubt they will with splitting their forces like that, not to mention now the BoS also has to deal with the commonwealth Super Mutants too.
Let's be honest here, the BoS didn't achieve anything in decades of being in the Capital Wasteland, then once the purifier is working they want me to believe the BoS just became super effective because of it?
Prone Squanderer
A bit of a Sillius Soddus.
Deacon's also a known liar.
I'm sure other characters somewhere in Fallout 4 mention the Capital Wasteland as being worse than the Commonwealth.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
I haven't encountered them and I think it kind of messes with the fact the BoS are moving on to new conquests.
No, they're dying in the water even if you just leave it clean. The Mirelurks need radiation to survive.
True but the "canon" ending seems to be the Good Karma one.
All of Ashur's army is composed of Raiders. They are stated to supply the Pitt with Food and supplies. That's actually a pretty big explanation for why the Raiders are doing what they're doing. Ashur can't trade for the vital supplies so he has his people murder for them.
We only know that Danse faced a group of Super Mutants and Elder Maxson did in nests separate from the Vault. Certainly, it seems like the Super Mutants are on the run since Dance and the BoS are in ascendence while the Super Mutants are being struck at and destroyed. The BoS has saved the Capital Wasteland and now they're going to conquer more lands.
Because Maxson is a monster with a Napoleon Complex.
And there's no reason for Deacon to lie about that.
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Mirelurks are not even a problem for the average wastelander. The clean water does nothing about Super mutants, Yao-Guai, Deathclaws, Molerats, Wild Dogs, Radroaches, Giant Ants, Crazy Robots, Feral Ghouls, Giant Scorpions, Bloatflies, etc. If anything killing the Mirelurk is bad because it is one of the few wasteland "preys" humans eat the meat from.
It is also said ingame that most of the Ashur's Raiders were slaves that over the years won the Arena fights. Nowhere it says he has his raiders killing for supplies either, in fact Ashur wants to get rid of the need to use a private army to keep the slaves working. He wants to find a cure for the radiation problem his people suffer from so he can stop using slaves and free all of them. He believes that once he can do that The Pitt will grow as an industrial city and the slaves will stay of their own free will and work without being forced to. And Ashur can trade for supplies, the whole point of him wanting to get rid of the radiation poisoning in The Pitt is so he can start mass producing ammo and use that as a way to make The Pitt a powerful and rich settlement. At the moment he has all of his slaves working to make ammo he trades for the rest of the supplies. Otherwise why would he force so many people to work and make ammo? It is the only means of income for The Pitt.
Ashur is not a blood thristy evil dictator, he is an idealist with a plan for the future that will benefit both The Pitt and the slaves if he succeeds. I think he even laments he has to use slaves and have his own army, but that will all change once he has the cure for the radiation poisoning. That is why I always join with him, Wernher just wants to become the king and oppress the slaves and reap the benefits and richness from it.
Like you said we only know those things, we can't say that the Super Mutants are on the run, that is using our imagination, not backed by any game.
And Maxon's Napoleon Complex still doesn't explain why the purifier was essential for saving the Capital Wasteland (which was what we were discussing). I am sure Maxson's would still be like that if the Purifier never worked at all. Why was the purifier so important is the thing that neither game shows or tells (the "if we make the water pure it will save the capital wasteland" is never backed up by neither game, in fact like I mentioned before it shows caravans being pillaged, corruption appearing in the BoS, entire settlements not receiving their water supply because the caravans are incompetent and give the entire shipment to a random woman who says she needs the water to make holy water, swindlers will ripoff ghouls from their caps by promising them Aqua Pura is Aqua Cura while selling dirty water instead and now even delicious food sources being eradicated).
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
The in-universe pillage of caravans is related to the Church of the Atom and you put a stop to that.
I'm also not putting down Ashur whatsoever. He's a visionary who wants to rebuild the Pitt around the Steel Mill but he's not just engaged in slaving but also raiding to keep his vision going.
Here's proof if you need it. I find my arguments always go over better if backed up by videos.
5:25
It explains Ashur is behind (some of) the Raiders in the Capital Wasteland. There's some other bits I can look up but basically amount to saying the Raiders eat the food they steal while the slaves eat Trog Chili. They do, however, Raid and raid extensively for supplies to keep the Pitt going.
I'm also not putting down Ashur whatsoever. He's a visionary who wants to rebuild the Pitt around the Steel Mill but he's not just engaged in slaving but also raiding to keep his vision going.
Here's proof if you need it. I find my arguments always go over better if backed up by videos.
5:25
It explains Ashur is behind (some of) the Raiders in the Capital Wasteland. There's some other bits I can look up but basically amount to saying the Raiders eat the food they steal while the slaves eat Trog Chili. They do, however, Raid and raid extensively for supplies to keep the Pitt going.
CaptJ
The Rival of Roquefort Hall
I don't know. I never played Mass Effect. Also,
1) It wasn't just two instances.
You can say the mother sacrifice her life to birth the Lone Wanderer (This isn't strictly a sacrifice because she didn't chose to die but whatever.) You can give your sweetroll to Butch on your 10th birthday for whatever reason that you feel like. (I know that it was most likely because of bullying but Lone Wanderer was 10.) You could also say that the BoS sacrifice to help others. Also, that thing about the baby in the Pitt.
2) Those were key events in the story not optional side quests.
3) How does bad writing not make it the theme?
I really doubt it.
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SarcasticGoodGuy
*R O T T E N*
CaptJ
The Rival of Roquefort Hall
If you say that DLC fixes the game, that means the game was broken. If the game was broken and you paid for the fix, you got scammed. If it didn't fix the game, you got even more scammed.
No, the caravans being raided was because some guys saw how profitable it was to raid them. There is even a quest about us to find out who they are and deal with it too. They are not related to the Church of Atom. If just a couple of guys can see the profit of raiding the water caravans, what chances are that more will not reach the same conclusion? Specially in a wild and dangerous wasteland like the Capital Wasteland.
In that video he only says one example: "You screw up in the Mill you only get a beating, it's harsh but it heals." "But if you screw up when raiding a caravan, you get gutshot and bleed out in the dirt." But if we screw up in the Mill we get killed in game, the guards will not just beat us up, they will shoot to kill, and we are never assigned to raid a caravan, we see no Ashur people assigned or talking about having to raid caravans either, all we have is a doctor trying to make himself feel important. Not to mention that there is also no mention those caravans are from the Capital Wasteland. And to end all what he says about the Mill, the beating, the caravan raiding and the dying in the dirt has nothing to do with what he after says and do, he will give you radaway by saying "But I do what I can to keep our mistakes from being fatal." He doesn't heal or anything, and by mentioning mistakes maybe he is saying that some people raiding a caravan was a mistake... I don't know, his dialogue and his actions doesn't make much sense at all.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
I'm sorry, you must have not seen where I said Fallout 3's base game was one of the worst endings of all time.
Absolutely completely terrible.
Basically, it traps you in a artificial no win situation designed to make it "oh so tragic" you die of radiation just like your father within days. It's so badly written, though, obvious third solutions don't occur to the developers and it ends the game on an awful note where it praises you for committing suicide versus coming up with a third solution. It's manipulative hack writing I am actually offended at as an author.
Broken Steel gave a proper heroic send-off, IMHO.