Fallout 3 writing editorial

Discussion in 'NMA News and Information' started by WorstUsernameEver, Mar 30, 2013.

  1. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    once your kidz are out of your home though you will have the issue that you have a lot of more free time, but not the body anymore to do anything fun!

    So, more for gaming then :mrgreen:
     
  2. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Meh, it always was. In Fallout 1 it was the mutant-creating McGuffin, in Fallout 2 it was the kill-everything-McGuffin. 3 just took all McGuffins from the previous games and put 'em into one giant swiss cheese of a plot.
     
  3. WorstUsernameEver

    WorstUsernameEver But best title ever!

    May 28, 2010
    Just as an aside: but we actually cover Metro: Last Light. Just as with many other post-apoc games that aren't RPGs though, we just cover it rarely and for its major news, rather than minor stuff. Besides "move on with the times" is, paradoxically, one of the oldest and weakest arguments ever.
     
  4. Wr4i7h

    Wr4i7h It Wandered In From the Wastes

    109
    Jun 6, 2007
    Oooh, I better start liking RPGs without roleplay or good writing, else those guys on sites that I don't visit will laugh at me.
     
  5. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    we have even an whole section dedicated to it.

    Its called the "General Gaming and Hardware Forum". Just another example of where people come in here, thinking about NMA as this one huge hive like mass of haters that dont do anything else then hating and bashing on Fallout. Yeah! Even if we talk about other games that we bash, the last line is always, but its not as bad like F3.
     
  6. Dukeanumberone

    Dukeanumberone It Wandered In From the Wastes

    147
    Jul 11, 2012
    Hassknecht
    You mean like this?
    http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63059&highlight=
     
  7. valcik

    valcik So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Dec 20, 2008
    Nah. Those teenagers just don't know how a quality game looks like, because they are infected with consolitis. Do not listen to them!
     
  8. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 27, 2003
    As others have stated, when your game is an FPS, detail is CRITICAL. Cities have to be HUGE because it has to be scaled realistically. The same with rooms and drawers and beds, etc, etc. The problem with that however is searching through shit like that is completely mundane and boring. Thats why games like GTA are shallow and have all the complexity of a rap song. In essence, a lot of shiny but a whole lot of nothing as well.

    Hence why a lot of folks here believe that friggin GRAFFIKS isn't the end all be all, ESPECIALLY, not for an serious in-depth roleplaying game thats more about story, writing, dialogue choices, etc, or just CONTENT.

    Its the same reason why books are awesome, it leaves a lot of shit to your imagination and skips all the info dump in regards to useless things. When you read

    "As you walk into the local tavern, the smell of alcohol and cheap cigarette smoke immediately seizes control of your senses. The racous laughter and myriad of conversations gives the place a semblance of civility. But underneath that veneer, an astute fellow would notice the forced or feigned interest in every conversation. The wary looks and hand placement that screams of seasoned killers waiting in ambush.'

    Thats just very basic writing and it requires nothing mundane like the shape and size of dressers or how big the damn beer bottles are. Thats because the focus is on the story.

    Second problem is many people here are tired of EVERYTHING being friggin converted into an FPS. With so many ALREADY out there, why does BETH have to rape the Fallout franchise specifically? Why not create their own damned IP? Why not let games like Fallout be handled by those who are best suited to it such as the folks that worked on the originals. There was a good amount of dis-satisfaction with the fact that were it not for Beth, some smaller developer with less economic clout and a whole lot less beuracratic mess ,could have done F3 better justice.
     
  9. vix

    vix First time out of the vault

    9
    Apr 3, 2013
    To get an updated view on the wasteland. Perfectly sensible, for example Dr. Li and the rest of the team could have moved elsewhere.

    No, people do this all the time. By the way the logs were very well acted by a professional. Definitely not
    I did

    They got there after he left; in my game it took several weeks to get to them which means Father was trapped in 112, plenty of time for the mutants to move in.

    For the same reason I like playing games. They are fun.

    We don't know that. Obviously only a trained person can use such a piece of technology. I expect you don't launch missiles by pressing a button either.

    It probably removes radiation as well, in order to create new life.

    Yes, vault 87 was such a case.

    you mean the military ?

    That was an accident.

    No. The location of a GECK is currently unknown.

    Stupid project?

    We could, but they wouldn't allow us entry. They did only after the Enclave interfered.

    To criticize it.

    I could keep going on but I think its pointless.
     
  10. sea

    sea Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 5, 2009
    The fact that you have to make all these non-obvious rationalizations about the game's story, which are mostly contrivances or things you've made up despite them never being stated once in the actual game, shows how incompetent the writing is. A story should not require fan-wank for basic motivations of characters and plot events to make sense. When the audience is constantly second-guessing everything the characters in the story do and even the consistency of basic facts about the world, you've got problems - it doesn't matter whether you can explain them away once audience faith has been lost.

    Quick example: I was playing BioShock Infinite recently. An info video in the universe tells you that it's "not rockets, not balloons, but quantum mechanics" that makes the city float. This is despite the fact that most of the platforms and islands you see in the floating city have both rockets and balloons attached to them. It doesn't matter if later on you get a hand-wave example or someone raises the point that maybe the rockets and balloons "help" or "just cosmetic." When a game can't get even these sorts of basic details down without contradicting itself or raising more and more questions, it's what we call "shitty storytelling."

    The fact that many/most people don't pick up on these glaring problems is simply a sign that many people are not especially observant when it comes to stories and are probably too distracted by the conceits of the medium to actually notice the problems. In other words, if this was a film where you weren't constantly being distracted by side quests and dungeons every 20 minutes, which have nothing to do with the main story, you'd probably say it's Battlefield Earth level of stupid. Because you're not always paying attention to the story you're less likely to notice the issues, and any "emotional" content like Daddy Neeson's soothing voice and "heroic sacrifice" to stop the bad guys from pressing a button to give clean water to everyone in the wasteland will further distract you.
     
  11. PlanHex

    PlanHex Useless layabout oTO Moderator Orderite

    Nov 4, 2007
    Read the entire blog in the Pinkett voice in my head.
    10/10 would read again
     
  12. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    I don't think Fo3's critically bad point isn't writing or lore.
    In fact there's no good point of fo3 except for art design(Yeah... It is great design for PA..but not for Fallout though.).

    For system
    1. VATS make shooting meaningless
    2. sucking perks
    3. raped SPECIAL and skill system
    4. horrible systems which makes RPG into follow-the-arrow game.

    For design,

    1. poorly placed quests,

    2.boring dungeons:
    I heard some dungeons "looking" good. but for me nothing is impressing

    3.poorly designed characters

    4. poorly designed main quest:
    I don't blame for writing but what I want to blame is doing main quest makes player miss lots of sub quest and dungeons that means main quest prevents player from enjoying good points(not for me but for fo3 worshippers.)

    5. poorly designed subquest:
    since lots of people says sub quests are good, I doubt my opinion is right but IMO Fo3's subquests are sucks as skyrim.
     
  13. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    I don't see a contradiction here. I'm playing Bioshock Infinite right now and as far as I can see, the city floats thanks to quantum mechanics, but is stabilized and moved about with rockets and baloons.

    It isn't shitty storytelling, it's simply giving the player enough substance to suspend their disbelief. If the game argued that the city floats only due to balloons and rockets, it would break suspension, because balloons have a relatively low lift. The Hindenburg, the largest zeppelin ever built, needed 200,000 m3 of hydrogen to lift just about 232 tons: passengers, structure, and more. Imagine the amount of gas and the size of the air bags needed to lift even a single Columbia island. Rockets don't cut it either, as the amount of fuel needed to generate sufficient lift to keep the entire city in place would generate excessive weight, which would require more fuel, which would require more lift, which would... You get the idea.

    Quantum mechanics elegantly bypasses the problem entirely. It is the Science! of Bioshock Infinite, allowing for impossible feats. It works and makes sense in the context of the setting.
     
  14. Kwiatmen666

    Kwiatmen666 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    160
    Aug 28, 2006
    Now that's just rude - implying that people who prefer consoles over PCs don't know about quality games that is.
     
  15. Gaspard

    Gaspard Kasparov

    833
    May 7, 2009
    That's right! I really liked Ratatouille. The level in the sewer pipes - priceless! I could play that forever and then some. Too bad I don't have a console...
     
  16. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 27, 2003
    Good point Sea. :clap:

    One thing I absolutely hate is the bullshit excuse some writers use as a copout to actually working hard or to defend their writing skills being restricted by the marketing/pr/managerial fuckwads. That excuse is the classic: Hey man, our story is so awesome that YOU, the viewer can figure it out yourself'.

    I paid money to have a good fucking story and awesome writing, AKA what anything labelled as FALLOUT should have shitloads of. When I talk to my friends or you folks about Fallout, I like to know I have concrete/canon info from the developer to back up my arguments. The problem with the lazy copout above is nobody can win any debate because the primary makeup and facts of a story that SHOULD be there, isn't.
     
  17. Muff

    Muff Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    861
    May 5, 2006
    This is just a point,

    Do other NMA'ers think that the rise of consoles and associated eye candy is because the level of interaction that can be provided on a console is no where near that can be achieved on a PC?

    As in the developers can fart there way around piss poor scripting by not giving you much of a chance to explore the environment in more detail, and as such not putting as much thought into the finer details into the story and universe.
     
  18. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 27, 2003
    In any FPS or TPS, everything your character sees has to be to scale and awesomely shiny, or whats termed IMMERSHUN.

    Problem is graphics can be really expensive to pull off due to the massive amount of resources developing it requires. You have people who storyboard, those who animate everything, backgrounds artists, designers, etc, etc.

    Whats happening to videogames today is on par with whats going on in Hollywood. In some kind of gigantic braincell loss of epic fuckup proportions, these folks have created a vicious cycle of what I term, graphic/mainstream symbiosis.

    1. Your average blockbuster is so filthily laden with special effects that it costs an heinous amount to produce. How do they break even or make a profit then?

    2. Well, the producers now 'modify', the movie so that it appeals to the broadest amount of audiences possible. In order to do so, the producers generally have to tone down or hush up anything that might offend, 'the mainstream'. This means something thats not overly controversial, too 'deep', too violent, etc.

    End result?

    A product thats visually spectacular but totally devoid of any real substance.
     
  19. UniversalWolf

    UniversalWolf eaten by a grue.

    Aug 28, 2005
    Nah. The dumber, easier, and flashier you make something the bigger the market you have to sell to. It's all about having the largest possible customer base. That doesn't mean everyone who plays console games is an idiot, but it does mean that if you sealed console gamers in a room with a 1987 PC and a floppy disk copy of Wasteland, a large percentage of them wouldn't be able to figure out how to make it go. And a fair portion of those who did would consider it unplayable or quit from "boredom."
     
  20. Muff

    Muff Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    861
    May 5, 2006
    That is what I was talking about, but you have worded it better than I did.

    1) WOW! factor I do honestly feel that is over used, in film and games. I would in a game or film feel drawn in to a environment yea you can make it look stunning at a distance (HL2 did this towards the end when you where in the carrier up to Breans lab). They where able to deliver on candy and story, in FO one of the most taking moments for me at least was the first few moments looking round in Loansom Road. The vista of the devide provided at first was in my opinion brilliant.

    2) That is the problem, the mass is not going to be involved in the RPG seen. A lot of gamers don't like games where you are given decisions that last, they like a A,B,C = D formula, this is because for alot of gamers that is all they know and dont like changes from that over night. Also they are used to games they can "Clock" in 8 - 15 hours, this is one of the main reasons DLC's are pushed so hard, the devs can push the core game after 1 or 2 months sales drop off month 3 DLC 1 is released with 5/6 hours game play, after a month drops off so later DLC 2 is released etc.

    And now there is micro transactions, nice little ways of getting drip feed money. So we are going to see less big release followed by a few minor ones till the next game. And even more hostility towards the mod makers.

    Think about this for a second, some of the best developers and studios got there start making mods. You know what could be a money spinner for consoles, allow mods and in this case I am not talking about "Tweak XYZ" but serious mods that add content, whle new areas, critters etc that they could cash in on...
    OK fan base comes up with X, they add it to the DLC base on XBL or PSN, etc, MS get 10% of the profit, Studio / Devs get 40% and the moders get the remainder.

    That is what I want to see.